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  • Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

    Originally posted by Got 6, Want More View Post
    This is such a good post and spot on. As one of the detractors of their coach I'll just say this, if their fans, players, parents, alums, and admin knew all the things that I know, they would share the disgust or they wouldn't have an opinion worth listening to. I am not about to divulge all my sources and betray confidences.

    Moreover, I was horrified when they were admitted to the league. It's a black sheep in a flock of golden fleece.

    Finally, as for US News and World Report, please don't waste my time. That school ranks BC as the best school in Boston because of criteria other than what really matters. Yeah, like more than maybe 5% of the BC students could get into MIT or Harvard or even Tufts for that matter. The Princeton Review rates SLU very highly in many categories. Q-suc is on par with other parochial and vocational schools whose academic mission and philosophy is completely counter to the liberal arts heart at the core of the ECAC. Q-suc is much closer to Northeastern, U-Mass Lowell and Merrimack than it is to Yale, Princeton, SLU or Colgate. Trust me, except for Pecknold which is a different issue, I wouldn't be thrilled with virtually any of the ACA teams except the service academies. From my first game as a Saint when Plattsburgh State players were jumping out of a red bird house to next Friday's game when they'll probably have their Vegas Style announcer yelling "Let's get ready to rumble" there's schools that are on the same wavelength as SLU and there are schools are not. There's nothing worse than living in a neighborhood of big, beautiful colonial and georgian houses and having someone move in that builds a sprawling ranch and paints it hot pink.

    None of this is personally directed at any of the Q-suc faithful on USCHO. If they knew what I knew, I somehow doubt there would be much argument from them.

    Of course, we are irrelevant so I'll stop now.

    As a current Q student I read this and have a very hard time not writing a post directed squarely at Got 6 after everything you have said about Quinnipiac.

    I chose to fly across the entire country from California to attend school here. I know with every job interview I go to outside the northeast I will be asked the same question I was asked my senior year in high school, "Quinna-what?" Quinnipiac is obviously the youngest school in the conference. For people that don't know Quinnipiac was actually a 2 year school for awhile as well. I have no shame in that. It doesn't lessen the degree I will receive in a couple months.

    I dont often compare Quinnipiac academically to any school in the ECAC for a multitude of reasons. Quinnipiac's strongest programs don't really relate in any way, shape or form to any other schools. Some of the brightest health science students in the country actually attend Quinnipiac. Quinnipiac turns down students with 2100's on their SAT's applying to health sciences. Quinnipiac is elite when it comes to health sciences. If anyone argues that, they have zero idea what they are talking about.

    The other aspects of the school are not on the same stage academically. The business school is ranked 66th in the country. It is not entirely hard to get into, hell I got into it. The School of Communications does a fantastic job but is not all that selective when it comes to admissions either, but it is listed above Ivy League school's in this LinkedIn ranking for media professionals (take that with a grain of salt) : https://www.linkedin.com/edu/ranking...kings-ctg-card . The engineering school is two years old.

    Quinnipiac clearly has used it's athletics as a way to promote the school. Any idea why they started doing that 7 years ago and not 15, 20, or 30? Because the academic side has been brought up to a standard the administration feels is strong enough to actively promote and something that they can actually be proud of. So forgive my school for committing money to get its name out but the culture has changed and nowadays smart, driven students don't just show up to a relatively new school by accident.

    What I'm getting at is Quinnipiac is a young school. Most of the schools in this country we hold in the highest regard, are the oldest. They have established themselves over a span of 100, 200, and 250+ years. No one is saying Q is just a step below the Ivies. We certainly like to be associated with the Ivies and I know all the other non Ivies would probably own up to that too, but the fact is we are no where near the Ivies as a complete instiution.

    I'm not asking people on here to change your perception of Quinnipiac. But I would argue that there is no school in college hockey that has grown academically more in the past 10 years than Quinnipiac. Make no mistake, we are not the school that was accepted into the ECAC 9 years ago. Historically, we just don't stack up to the rest of the conference and we certainly don't fit the mold of the other 11 schools. But does that mean we don't fit? At the end of the day it was the ADs and Presidents of your schools that picked us (Yes HC would of been tapped if not for women's hockey).
    Quinnipiac University '15
    ECAC Regular Season Champs: 2013, 2015, 2016
    ECAC Championship: 2016
    NCAA Tournament: 2002, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016
    NCAA Frozen Four: 2013, 2016
    Yuck Fale : 2013

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    • Originally posted by Got 6, Want More View Post
      This implies that Q-suc's score is twice as high as Union's? Give me a ****ing break! That pretty well eviscerates any claim by anyone calling that report credible.
      This would imply that SLU is twice as "good" as Union. I only wish! Union & SLU compete for pretty much the same quality of students and offer pretty much the same academics. And, even though I don't like to say it, I think Union has a slight edge over SLU when it comes to admissions rates and SATs. (And SLU has a monstrous edge when it comes to not being located in the heart of Schenectedy) So those numbers appear to be useless even within their own solo of school type.
      St. Lawrence University
      World Class Old Time Hockey. Since 1927.

      2 NCAA Championship Games >>> 6 Time ECAC Champions >>> 9 NCAA Frozen Fours >>> 16 NCAA Appearances >>> 1,000+ All-time Wins

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      • Originally posted by BigAl View Post
        As a current Q student I read this and have a very hard time not writing a post directed squarely at Got 6 after everything you have said about Quinnipiac.

        I chose to fly across the entire country from California to attend school here. I know with every job interview I go to outside the northeast I will be asked the same question I was asked my senior year in high school, "Quinna-what?" Quinnipiac is obviously the youngest school in the conference. For people that don't know Quinnipiac was actually a 2 year school for awhile as well. I have no shame in that. It doesn't lessen the degree I will receive in a couple months.

        I dont often compare Quinnipiac academically to any school in the ECAC for a multitude of reasons. Quinnipiac's strongest programs don't really relate in any way, shape or form to any other schools. Some of the brightest health science students in the country actually attend Quinnipiac. Quinnipiac turns down students with 2100's on their SAT's applying to health sciences. Quinnipiac is elite when it comes to health sciences. If anyone argues that, they have zero idea what they are talking about.

        The other aspects of the school are not on the same stage academically. The business school is ranked 66th in the country. It is not entirely hard to get into, hell I got into it. The School of Communications does a fantastic job but is not all that selective when it comes to admissions either, but it is listed above Ivy League school's in this LinkedIn ranking for media professionals (take that with a grain of salt) : https://www.linkedin.com/edu/ranking...kings-ctg-card . The engineering school is two years old.

        Quinnipiac clearly has used it's athletics as a way to promote the school. Any idea why they started doing that 7 years ago and not 15, 20, or 30? Because the academic side has been brought up to a standard the administration feels is strong enough to actively promote and something that they can actually be proud of. So forgive my school for committing money to get its name out but the culture has changed and nowadays smart, driven students don't just show up to a relatively new school by accident.

        What I'm getting at is Quinnipiac is a young school. Most of the schools in this country we hold in the highest regard, are the oldest. They have established themselves over a span of 100, 200, and 250+ years. No one is saying Q is just a step below the Ivies. We certainly like to be associated with the Ivies and I know all the other non Ivies would probably own up to that too, but the fact is we are no where near the Ivies as a complete instiution.

        I'm not asking people on here to change your perception of Quinnipiac. But I would argue that there is no school in college hockey that has grown academically more in the past 10 years than Quinnipiac. Make no mistake, we are not the school that was accepted into the ECAC 9 years ago. Historically, we just don't stack up to the rest of the conference and we certainly don't fit the mold of the other 11 schools. But does that mean we don't fit? At the end of the day it was the ADs and Presidents of your schools that picked us (Yes HC would of been tapped if not for women's hockey).
        There is no reason in the world why smart people couldn't see value in Q's programs, and apply them with great success. I think most of us here understand that there are countless very intelligent people who don't attend ECAC schools . . . and plenty of knuckleheads at highly respected colleges. I know I've known my share. And I'm sure you're right that Q has worked hard to raise its academic profile. Joining the ECAC was surely part of that strategy. But the school seems to want to use that association while running its athletic programs like Ohio State or Maine. That's really OK, but it just isn't in line with the rest of the conference. That's exactly why UVM left, and I certainly don't have anything against UVM as a university. I'd be happy to send my kids there, but I think they are better suited for Hockey East.

        And as far as those rankings go, they are still relative to the categories. As others have pointed out, no ranking with any merit would put Union below Quinnipiac, period. (And most rational people would rank them slightly ahead of SLU for the record.)

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        • Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

          Originally posted by Got 6, Want More View Post
          Finally, as for US News and World Report, please don't waste my time.
          That's really all that need be said about YouSnooze. It's published to gin up discussion; it's just an irritainment tar-baby. The only way to win is not to play.

          SLU is the most improved team, from the beginning of the season to now, in the conference. That includes Dartmouth who is terrifying right now. The whole rest of the conference is praying those two teams meet in the semi to give somebody else a shot at getting to the final.
          Last edited by Kepler; 02-08-2015, 08:28 AM.
          Cornell University
          National Champion 1967, 1970
          ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
          Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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          • Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

            Originally posted by TimU View Post
            But the school seems to want to use that association while running its athletic programs like Ohio State or Maine. That's really OK, but it just isn't in line with the rest of the conference.
            Can you explain this from your perspective Tim? I really don't understand what you're trying to say (not hard for an old guy like me )
            Quinnipiac Bobcats
            2023 National Champions
            ECAC Regular Season Champions: 2012-13, 2014-15, 2015-16, 2018-19, 2020-21, 2021-22, 2022-23, 2023-24
            ECAC Tournament Champions: 2016
            East Regional: 2013 (Champions), 2014, 2016 (Champions), 2023 (Champions), 2024
            Northeast Regional:
            West Regional: 2015, 2021
            Midwest Regional: 2019, 2022
            Frozen Four: 2013, 2016, 2023 (Champions)

            Pass complete. Lipkin has a man in front! Shot... SCORE!!!

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            • Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

              Congrats to the Saints team, coaches and players on another successful weekend! SLU now turns its head towards next weekend and a chance to make some noise.

              The game against Quinnipiac isn't big just for a chance for SLU, with a win, to pull within a point of first place, it's very big in the PWR standings for the NCAA tournament. SLU is currently losing it's PWR point against Northestern. Where SLU has to make up this point is in Common Opponents. The only common opponent left on the schedule to date is Quinnipiac. A win on Friday will flip the Common Opponent Comparison with Northeastern and gain SLU a critical PWR point in the race for the NCAAs.

              It looks like SLU is hitting their stride and they will have to bring their A game to beat the current first place team at their barn. If any team can do it right now though, it's the Skating Saints! Keep up the hard work!
              SLU '97

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              • Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

                With all the hue and cry concerning Union's ranking on the US News list, i double checked and found I had transposed the ranking from Union in Kentucky. I double checked all of the others. So Union jumps QU by a point.

                Princeton 100
                Harvard 99
                Yale 98
                Dartmouth 90
                Cornell 85
                Brown 84
                Colgate 83
                Union 73
                Quinnipiac 72
                St Lawrence 65
                RPI 62
                Clarkson 41
                YALE HOCKEY
                2013 National Champions

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                • Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

                  Hey guys, just thought I'd pop in and give my take on the Qpac ECAC spiel.
                  RIT has been very obviously positioning themselves to leave Atlantic Hockey for several years now, especially with the new arena.
                  I'll be honest, most of our fans HATE the AHA and feel like it is holding us back. Besides geographically, we don't fit in very well with the rest of the
                  league either in terms of hockey investment, fan support, and even enrollment. Being the only school unable to give scholarships isn't ideal for us either.

                  Back in 2005 when we joined DI, the school stated it's express purpose was to keep academics at the forefront so I wouldn't rule us out for the ECAC on that front either.
                  I agree that geography and travel partners would be a big hurdle to overcome for us however. Either way I'm interested to see how this plays out.
                  RIT Tigers

                  AHC Pickem Regular Season Co-Champion - 2016-2017

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                  • Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

                    I don't really have a dog in this fight -- I would like to see Quinnipiac join Hockey East, so if the ECAC doesn't want them, send 'em our way (you guys want a partially used Notre Dame?) but I just had to chime in to laugh at the guy who said "Quinnipiac academically is nothing like Yale, Princeton or St. Lawrence." Yeah, Yale, Princeton, St. Lawrence... none of those schools stand out as being any different from the rest. LOL
                    BC Interruption: SB Nation's Boston College Eagles Community
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                    Boston College Class of 2010

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                    • Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

                      Originally posted by joegrav View Post
                      I don't really have a dog in this fight -- I would like to see Quinnipiac join Hockey East, so if the ECAC doesn't want them, send 'em our way (you guys want a partially used Notre Dame?)
                      I want them more than Merrimack, that's for sure.

                      I've always thought the natural order was Q to HE, RIT to the ECAC. Q fits HE's athlete-student model, RIT fits the ECAC's student-athlete model.

                      Notre Dame is in kind of a netherworld, but I assume they'll eventually go back to the WCHA-ne-CCHA.
                      Cornell University
                      National Champion 1967, 1970
                      ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                      Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                      • Originally posted by MarkEagleUSA View Post
                        Can you explain this from your perspective Tim? I really don't understand what you're trying to say (not hard for an old guy like me )
                        Well, if you want it boiled down to its essence, just refer to Kepler's last post. I see Q and UVM doing very similar things. UVM's move to HE coincided with the hiring of Dan Fogel as president, from LSU. There was a very concerted effort to use athletic success as a way to gain attention and in the long run generate revenue. Lots of money went to athletic programs, and there seems to be a clear willingness to pursue athletes that couldn't get past the admissions office at a selective school that wants the "student athlete." Expensive facilities, big recruiting budgets, TV contracts and advertising, etc., all focused on athletic success . . . not at any cost, but in ways that most ECAC schools aren't comfortable with.

                        Comment


                        • Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

                          Originally posted by TimU View Post
                          there seems to be a clear willingness to pursue athletes that couldn't get past the admissions office at a selective school that wants the "student athlete."
                          While I have no proof to back this up I have been told that there are no games played with admissions when it comes to athletics. We've been near the top in the ECAC adademic rankings for the last few seasons, and I believe we've had a 100% graduation rate in hockey as well. Lahey is definitely an academics-first type of president that fully supports the athletic department. In fact, he's said on more than one occasion that he uses our athletics success to entice big-money donors for the school.

                          Expensive facilities, big recruiting budgets, TV contracts and advertising, etc., all focused on athletic success . . . not at any cost, but in ways that most ECAC schools aren't comfortable with.
                          Ok, we have the facilities, but they were somewhat required to get into the ECAC*. I know they have spent a lot on advertising. I honestly don't know what the recruiting budget might be and we haven't had any TV contracts that I'm aware of. There were a couple of seasons where they bought airtime to televise a few games, but I'd consider that advertising.

                          * If I'm not mistaken, the ECAC required a minimum 3000-seat arena, while HE I believe wants 4000 or 5000. If QU's aspirations were to ultimately end up in HE, why did they only build a 3400-seat rink without any easy means for expansion?

                          Enough of the thread derailment. I appreciate the civil response Tim. Guys like you, Mike, Brian, and few others whose names I can't remember (the crew from that fateful day at the Hoot Owl) are stand-up guys and I really appreciate your opinions even if I don't always agree with them.

                          Here's to hoping that Friday's game is a classic, hard fought hockey game.
                          Quinnipiac Bobcats
                          2023 National Champions
                          ECAC Regular Season Champions: 2012-13, 2014-15, 2015-16, 2018-19, 2020-21, 2021-22, 2022-23, 2023-24
                          ECAC Tournament Champions: 2016
                          East Regional: 2013 (Champions), 2014, 2016 (Champions), 2023 (Champions), 2024
                          Northeast Regional:
                          West Regional: 2015, 2021
                          Midwest Regional: 2019, 2022
                          Frozen Four: 2013, 2016, 2023 (Champions)

                          Pass complete. Lipkin has a man in front! Shot... SCORE!!!

                          Comment


                          • Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

                            Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                            That's really all that need be said about YouSnooze. It's published to gin up discussion; it's just an irritainment tar-baby. The only way to win is not to play.

                            SLU is the most improved team, from the beginning of the season to now, in the conference. That includes Dartmouth who is terrifying right now. The whole rest of the conference is praying those two teams meet in the semi to give somebody else a shot at getting to the final.
                            Not sure what alternate universe we are in at the moment with people arguing that Q-suc is a middle of the pack academic institution in the ECAC. It may be the next BC that 30 years ago was basically Chestnut Hill Community College that wasn't even worthy of a safety school application fee. The entire academic environment sticks out like a sore thumb. The ECAC has, since 1984, been schools focused on solid liberal arts institutions and above average engineering schools. Q-suc may have great nursing, and OT and PT and PA programs but that doesn't make it a crossover for most ECAC schools. For applicants to the other 11 ECAC schools I'd wager that Q-suc is not even remotely on their radar. US News has zero credibility on this issue and you can't compare apples to oranges let alone apples to sponge bob.

                            The real issue for me, aside from coach touchole, is that Q-suc does represent a real threat to the league. Not because they are in first place, but because if the Ivies did vote to break off from the ECAC the way they and the current ECAC teams did in 1984, it would be for the same reason which is league members with obviously different mentalities about sports. The ECAC and Hockey East schools divorced because some wanted to build new arenas (BU, BC, UNH, Lowell, Merrimack, U-Mass, and big upgrades at Maine. I don't pay attention to newbies like UND and U-Conn) area all new since HEA, and emphasize the athletics as big time, money making, athlete factories with lax admissions by comparison, and others wanted to maintain the academic integrity of their admissions with the athletic programs and are either Ivies, small Ivies (Colgate) or D3 schools with D3 mentalities that happen to have big and long hockey traditions. It would be a disaster for other ECAC schools to face a breakup with the Ivy league and it's members like Q-suc that could make that happen because they simply don't fit in and represent the same mentality that the league already broke away from. That's the real issue. Should that ever happen, all the non-Ivy institutions are in NY and I think that would likely turn into teams either dropping D-1 Hockey or putting together an all-NYS league with teams like Niagara, RIT, Canisius, Army, and whoever else. Caddyshack was a comedy, but this is a real live case of the newest member of the club not fitting in and not following traditions. Q-suc is like a wave pool in the middle of Augusta National.

                            Maybe if they had a different coach and a different philosphy it would be alright. But they don't.

                            As for Dartmouth...they have a five man unit as good as anyone elses. They are fast, strong and generate a lot of shots. I don't think Dartmouth has the overall team speed or depth that SLU or a few other teams have but with those five on the ice they can give anyone a heart attack. However, I am scared playing anyone in our league. There are zero easy points.
                            9/11/01 - Stewie & Pelch, you are missed by the SLU Family.
                            1962, 1988, 1989, 1992, 2000, 2001, we want More!!!

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                            • Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

                              Originally posted by MarkEagleUSA View Post
                              While I have no proof to back this up I have been told that there are no games played with admissions when it comes to athletics. We've been near the top in the ECAC adademic rankings for the last few seasons, and I believe we've had a 100% graduation rate in hockey as well. Lahey is definitely an academics-first type of president that fully supports the athletic department. In fact, he's said on more than one occasion that he uses our athletics success to entice big-money donors for the school.
                              This simply is not accurate. There are several guys at Q over the last 5 years that I know were admitted because of hockey and had academic issues that would have prevented them from getting into other schools. There are others that one can assume may not have been qualified such as Quinneville (sp?), but I don't know. You guys have to remember that Q has had several siblings from Saint players such as Coughlin and Clarke. But again, this has less to do with academics than it has to do with philosophy about sports. Q is a world apart from the Ivies and D3 mentality of the other member institutions. When Yale wins the NCAA championship as one of the most elite academic institutions in the world playing in the beautiful whale that hasn't changed a ton in 30 years, or Union does it with 2000 students and no scholarships, and a rink that put next to North Dakota would be like Patriot Place to Mud Dog stadium in the Waterboy. If Q had won in 2013 (and I just threw up in my mouth thinking about that), it would have been bought and paid for the same way it has been at BC or other recent winners.
                              9/11/01 - Stewie & Pelch, you are missed by the SLU Family.
                              1962, 1988, 1989, 1992, 2000, 2001, we want More!!!

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                              • Re: St. Lawrence University: Big Time, Old Time Hockey 2014-15

                                Originally posted by Got 6, Want More View Post
                                This simply is not accurate. There are several guys at Q over the last 5 years that I know were admitted because of hockey and had academic issues that would have prevented them from getting into other schools. There are others that one can assume may not have been qualified such as Quinneville (sp?), but I don't know. You guys have to remember that Q has had several siblings from Saint players such as Coughlin and Clarke. But again, this has less to do with academics than it has to do with philosophy about sports. Q is a world apart from the Ivies and D3 mentality of the other member institutions. When Yale wins the NCAA championship as one of the most elite academic institutions in the world playing in the beautiful whale that hasn't changed a ton in 30 years, or Union does it with 2000 students and no scholarships, and a rink that put next to North Dakota would be like Patriot Place to Mud Dog stadium in the Waterboy. If Q had won in 2013 (and I just threw up in my mouth thinking about that), it would have been bought and paid for the same way it has been at BC or other recent winners.
                                Over the last three years, Quinnipiac has consistently ranked among placing the most players on the ECAC All-Academic team - each time placing more than St. Lawrence. Proof:

                                2012: http://www.ecachockey.com/men/2011-1...-Academic_Team

                                2013: http://www.ecachockey.com/men/2013-1...-Academic_Team

                                2014: http://www.ecachockey.com/men/2014-1...-Academic_Team

                                So what exactly was "simply not accurate" about Mark's post? And please don't provide your normal bravado about how you know FOR A FACT that everything at Quinnipiac is terrible. You do not know the coursework at the school. You do not know the professors. You do not know the specifics about the academics. Sure, the classwork may not be Ivy-level, but there is proof that not only are the players on this team receiving a quality education, they are excelling while doing so.

                                Also, funny how easy it is for an anonymous internet poster to discredit a national study conducted by a reputable publication in ranking universities. Because you have launched your own national study and have found far more conclusive results stating your school is the best thing ever, right? How convenient. Please stop trying to pass off your bias hearsay and opinions as absolute facts.

                                For the record, I have absolutely nothing against St. Lawrence. I am sure it is a quality institution that offers a high-quality education thanks to a high-quality community. It is just these absurd rants at a university I care deeply about that tickle me the wrong way.
                                Last edited by MSchvatz44; 02-08-2015, 02:39 PM.

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