Minnesota Golden Gophers 2009-2010: Calmly Step Away from the Ledge

[HarleyMC]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers 2009-2010: Calmly Step Away from the Ledge

Next season will be better? You can't say that. You don't know that.

I would. There are a number of kids on the team right now that were "natural" goal scorers before they got here. White, Hansen, Hoeffel, Schroeder. They got to Minnesota and digressed.

You're starting to sound like you missed your nap for the last 2 weeks. Next season could potentially be Lucia's last if the program does not show significantly more progress. Lucia is not a bad coach and I suspect he'll be focusing on giving his best effort to work hard to improve upon this season's disappointments.

There's a good recruiting class coming in, and I think guys like Leddy, Budish, Birkholz, Larson, Matson, Cepis all have potential for breakout seasons. I think we will see some positive changes and adjustments under the conditions. I think it may take 2-4 seasons though to find the right mix of natural goal scorers and true role players again to make this team the powerhouse it once was. It's very possible if Lucia is successful next season he may receive an extension based upon a multiyear rebuilding proposal and strategy. It happened to Scott Sundelin when he was in the hot seat last season in his final year of his contract and a new building opening in Dec. 2011.

Again, I don't see White, Schroeder (playmaker), Hoeffel as natural goal scorers. We had one last year in Ryan Stoa. Hansen is an anomaly, but I think with Jake obviously the transition from USHL has been more severe and that says something about the quality of hockey in the WCHA more than anything else. I think Jake is a good hockey player he just hasn't found his niche yet...it happens.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers 2009-2010: Calmly Step Away from the Ledge

You're starting to sound like you missed your nap for the last 2 weeks. Next season could potentially be Lucia's last if the program does not show significantly more progress. Lucia is not a bad coach and I suspect he'll be focusing on giving his best effort to work hard to improve upon this season's disappointments.

There's a good recruiting class coming in, and I think guys like Leddy, Budish, Birkholz, Larson, Matson, Cepis all have potential for breakout seasons. I think we will see some positive changes and adjustments under the conditions. I think it may take 2-4 seasons though to find the right mix of natural goal scorers and true role players again to make this team the powerhouse it once was. It's very possible if Lucia is successful next season he may receive an extension based upon a multiyear rebuilding proposal and strategy. It happened to Scott Sundelin when he was in the hot seat last season in his final year of his contract and a new building opening in Dec. 2011.

Again, I don't see White, Schroeder (playmaker), Hoeffel as natural goal scorers. We had one last year in Ryan Stoa. Hansen is an anomaly, but I think with Jake obviously the transition from USHL has been more severe and that says something about the quality of hockey in the WCHA more than anything else. I think Jake is a good hockey player he just hasn't found his niche yet...it happens.

You're just making excuses for them. White was brought here to put the puck in the net. No question about it. So was Hansen.

Who's coming in next year that's going to score? You can't assume any of them are because Lucia is proving over and over again that when he brings kids in from the USHL who light that league up they disappear.

[HarleyMC]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers 2009-2010: Calmly Step Away from the Ledge

You're just making excuses for them. White was brought here to put the puck in the net. No question about it. So was Hansen.

Who's coming in next year that's going to score? You can't assume any of them are because Lucia is proving over and over again that when he brings kids in from the USHL who light that league up they disappear.

Excuses about what?

As I said (last season too), White, Hoeffel, Carman, Sacchetti, Lucia, Flynn, Barriball (B+) are grade B/C players, not natural goal scorers. Unless they drastically improve, I don't think any of them will get a legitimate shot at NHL ice. Jake needs more time, maybe he turns it around maybe he doesn't, but I'm pretty sure he'll give it his best. I see some strong potential for goal scoring in the following recruits: Erik Haula, Nick Bjugstad, Nate Condon to name a few.

[4four4]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers 2009-2010: Calmly Step Away from the Ledge

You're just making excuses for them. White was brought here to put the puck in the net. No question about it. So was Hansen.

Who's coming in next year that's going to score? You can't assume any of them are because Lucia is proving over and over again that when he brings kids in from the USHL who light that league up they disappear.

Maybe just maybe the USHL is overrated?

People need to remember junior hockey is no where near the the college level for the average player. Which goes to show many of the the USHL players become average college players.

Every level is a step up in the pyramid of hockey.

[HarleyMC]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers 2009-2010: Calmly Step Away from the Ledge

Maybe just maybe the USHL is overrated?

People need to remember junior hockey is no where near the the college level for the average player. Which goes to show many of the the USHL players become average college players.

Every level is a step up in the pyramid of hockey.

I don't think the USHL is overrated. You're right, it's simply a different and lower standardized level of play compared to the WCHA and players understand that. IMO every level has a normative standard of measurable success based upon the style and level of league play. The recruiting risk is whether, for example, a top USHL goal scorer will be able to perform with the same proficiency at a higher level (eg. WCHA). At times there are exceptional cases when the developmental peak is delayed for some players and they suddenly excel at a higher level. But nevertheless there is a risk percentage in recruiting players based upon psychosocial and physiological risk factors that may hinder player potentiality causing them to reach a performance plateau at the next level.

Players that are perceived to be "natural" goal scorers at one level may not be at another level. Exceptions would be Vanek, R. Potulny, Irmen, Kessel, Okposo, Stoa, etc. who are proven inherently natural goal scorers at various levels. Generally speaking, the term "natural goal scorer" seems misleading and is perhaps used too liberally to describe an inherent quality to score but it has often proven to be relative to the level and style of league play. I prefer to use the term to describe the exceptional player that can consistently perform with high proficiency (20+ g/yr) at various levels.

[HarleyMC]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers 2009-2010: Calmly Step Away from the Ledge

Maybe being a natural goal scorer coming out of the Twin Cities hasn't meant the same that it did a few years ago.

For WCHA conference scoring alone, here are the hometowns (or home states/provinces) of the top 25, plus ties:

1. Tennessee
Alberta
California
Alberta
California
Missouri
Virginia
Ontario
Duluth
10. Colorado
Hastings
Alberta
Moorhead
Michigan
Manitoba
Brit. Col.
Wisconsin
Duluth
Wisconsin
20. Brit. Col.
Illinois
Prior Lake
Prior Lake
Elk River
25. Manitoba
Duluth
Eden Prairie
Alaska

Interesting list. I'd like to see some longitudinal results. I would add that in terms of recruiting it appears MN is still the primary USA resource for the best players.

MN - 9, Canada - 8

[thebrain]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers 2009-2010: Calmly Step Away from the Ledge

Just saw this....Doesn't look good...

http://kstp.com/news/stories/S1442987.shtml?cat=1

MN hockey legend's grandson hit by car

The grandson of a Minnesota hockey legend is fighting for his life in an Arizona hospital.

Robby Mayasich, 18, was participating in a relay race Saturday when he was hit by a car.

His grandfather, John Mayasich, was a member of the 1960 Olympic gold medal hockey team.

Classmates gathered to pray for Mayasich Monday.

Investigators said he was on the side of the road trying to give his teammate some water when he was hit.

His family says his prognosis is grim.

[Greyeagle]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers 2009-2010: Calmly Step Away from the Ledge

Just saw this....Doesn't look good...

http://kstp.com/news/stories/S1442987.shtml?cat=1

There was a note in the PP about a prayer service....it appears Johnny Legend lost his grandson. I can't imagine.

EDIT: I should clarify - I don't think his grandson has passed but grim doesn't give me much hope.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers 2009-2010: Calmly Step Away from the Ledge

There was a note in the PP about a prayer service....it appears Johnny Legend lost his grandson. I can't imagine.

I can't either. Sounds like he was involved in a running race that's held on the road and was hit by a car. More information in this article.

http://www.myfoxphoeni*****/dpp/news...t_relay_030110
http://www.kpho.com/news/22700742/detail.html

[Handyman]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers 2009-2010: Calmly Step Away from the Ledge

Excuses about what?

As I said (last season too), White, Hoeffel, Carman, Sacchetti, Lucia, Flynn, Barriball (B+) are grade B/C players, not natural goal scorers. Unless they drastically improve, I don't think any of them will get a legitimate shot at NHL ice. Jake needs more time, maybe he turns it around maybe he doesn't, but I'm pretty sure he'll give it his best. I see some strong potential for goal scoring in the following recruits: Erik Haula, Nick Bjugstad, Nate Condon to name a few.

Yeah...ya know if you just change the names at the end of your post you have the same thing people said about White, Hoeffel, Barriball...etc. The Gophers always have a good class coming in with lots of potential scorers...the problem is they havent been living up to potential. Sure you can say NOW that those guys are not the scorers this team needs, but what makes you think you wont say the same thing about Bjugstad, Haula and Condon?

And you are dreaming if you think Larson is going to have a breakout year...he will be a bottom line player his entire time at the U unless the team continues to have years like this one where guys like Tony Lucia need to be top PP guys. (Lucia is a very good player and I love him but he should be on the PP as much as Jake Fleming and Jon Waibel were)

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers 2009-2010: Calmly Step Away from the Ledge

Yeah...ya know if you just change the names at the end of your post you have the same thing people said about White, Hoeffel, Barriball...etc. The Gophers always have a good class coming in with lots of potential scorers...the problem is they havent been living up to potential. Sure you can say NOW that those guys are not the scorers this team needs, but what makes you think you wont say the same thing about Bjugstad, Haula and Condon?

And you are dreaming if you think Larson is going to have a breakout year...he will be a bottom line player his entire time at the U unless the team continues to have years like this one where guys like Tony Lucia need to be top PP guys. (Lucia is a very good player and I love him but he should be on the PP as much as Jake Fleming and Jon Waibel were)

Bingo.

[HarleyMC]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers 2009-2010: Calmly Step Away from the Ledge

Yeah...ya know if you just change the names at the end of your post you have the same thing people said about White, Hoeffel, Barriball...etc. The Gophers always have a good class coming in with lots of potential scorers...the problem is they havent been living up to potential. Sure you can say NOW that those guys are not the scorers this team needs, but what makes you think you wont say the same thing about Bjugstad, Haula and Condon?

And you are dreaming if you think Larson is going to have a breakout year...he will be a bottom line player his entire time at the U unless the team continues to have years like this one where guys like Tony Lucia need to be top PP guys. (Lucia is a very good player and I love him but he should be on the PP as much as Jake Fleming and Jon Waibel were)

You missed my point completely. I suggest you go back 6 posts or so and read the rest of what I have posted on the subject of risk factors in recruiting. Also noteworthy is I never mentioned any of the new recruits as "natural goal scorers" at the WCHA level. That remains to be seen. However, within their respective levels of league play they've demonstrated the hockey knowledge, skills and scoring ability to be considered top NCAA recruits.

Dreaming? And you, the voice of misantropic cynicism have come to rescue me from my delusion, right? As far as Larson is concerned, he impresses me as a tough kid who fought back from two cracked vertebrae in his lower back (suffered in the state HS tourney in 2007), missed 20 months of hockey and has finally showed some signs of coming back to form. Whether he achieves his personal hockey goals or not remains to be seen, but he was a scoring machine at Hill-Murray and the potential is still there. Neither one of us can say for sure what will happen but I stand by my statement that he possesses the potential for a breakout season. If you want to throw him under the bus that's up to you.

Bingo.

That's a game for old farts...wait a minute...check.

[Handyman]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers 2009-2010: Calmly Step Away from the Ledge

Wow...you need to lay off the friggin kool-aid.

I went back and read what you posted and it doesn't change anything I said. You ignore the fact that lots of these guys that you say aren't scorers now were brought in to be scorers. You ignore the fact that they completely regressed. Then you talk up the incoming recruits in exactly the same way everyone talked up the players you dismissed (White and Hoeffel) and talked about their potential. What if you are wrong and they are just more Pat Whites...I am guessing that just shows they were never scorers in the first place right though thankfully we will have another class for you to hype up...and the cycle continues.

As for Larson, he has shown great strength to come back as he has but no one beyond you thinks he has the potential to become anything but a solid player. As for your point about being a "scoring machine" at Hill should we list off all of the "scoring machines" in high school that went on to do absolutely nothing after that? I am sure one of the people who knows more than me can fill you in if you missed it during one of your Kool-Aid Injection Ceremonies.

[state of hockey]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers 2009-2010: Calmly Step Away from the Ledge

I miss guys like Fleming and Waibel. That line never let the opposition out of their zone.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers 2009-2010: Calmly Step Away from the Ledge

I miss guys like Fleming and Waibel. That line never let the opposition out of their zone.

Yep. The forecheck of death line. I miss it too.