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  • FlagDUDE08
    replied
    Re: John t whelan ranking simulator

    Originally posted by goblue78 View Post
    In light of LT's question, what would be interesting is a chart of Bonus points earned, not bonus points to be had. And which teams have bonus points benefited and which has it hurt. Admittedly, this is all way premature, but interesting nonetheless.
    It's quite alright, and I do appreciate the suggestion. There is a calculator to which I provide writing contribution, and I have been looking for some ideas of what to include; this is a good one. I'll also be looking at a pop-up chart of who bests who in PWR, though screen size is a challenge because all of the teams are now under consideration. The application does list this information individually. I can tell you that Michigan has received 0.53 bonus points.

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  • goblue78
    replied
    Re: John t whelan ranking simulator

    In light of LT's question, what would be interesting is a chart of Bonus points earned, not bonus points to be had. And which teams have bonus points benefited and which has it hurt. Admittedly, this is all way premature, but interesting nonetheless.

    Leave a comment:


  • FlagDUDE08
    replied
    Re: John t whelan ranking simulator

    Originally posted by LTsatch View Post
    Thank you, I will enter your response into the RPI / Southern CT State U translator and hopefully figure out WTH you just wrote. On second thought , I get it, Yale's OOC schedule sucks and will most likely hurt them in the end. Can only hope wins against a strong ECAC will help in the end. Thanks for doing this for us.
    No problem. Unfortunately, the translator of which you spoke will probably end up giving you the report that the NCAA released and the USCHO subsequently simulcasted back around either August or September, which was hard enough for someone from RPI to understand. I believe a bit earlier in this thread, there is a mathematical explanation from back when few games were played in the season that should hopefully help. We've had some issues with trying to figure it out, at least all of the new stuff. Looking at your schedule, though, it does seem a little soft thus far, as you have two games (Princeton from the Ivy Shootout and Sacred Heart yesterday) that were actually removed from your calculation because they make your rating even lower. One of the rules is that winning a game will never decrease your rating on account of that game alone. You did get some bonus points, though, for the tie you had vs. Quinnipiac.

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  • LTsatch
    replied
    Re: John t whelan ranking simulator

    Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
    The Quality Wins Bonus list is effectively the same as the old RatingsPI, with the exception of the weighting for where a game is played (1.2 potential if you win on the road or lose at home, 0.8 potential if you win at home or lose on the road). Yale is currently 26th in RatingsPI before the Quality Wins Bonus is calculated, and all that means is that if a team beats you (or ties, because a tie is defined as one-half win and one-half loss), they will not get any bonus points for having beat (or tied) a "quality team" at the time RatingsPI is calculated. That's not to infer any negative feelings upon your team, of course, just that a "quality team" is defined as a team within the top 20 of RatingsPI prior to the calculation of this bonus.
    Thank you, I will enter your response into the RPI / Southern CT State U translator and hopefully figure out WTH you just wrote. On second thought , I get it, Yale's OOC schedule sucks and will most likely hurt them in the end. Can only hope wins against a strong ECAC will help in the end. Thanks for doing this for us.

    Leave a comment:


  • FlagDUDE08
    replied
    Re: John t whelan ranking simulator

    As of games completed 16 November 2013, here's the quality wins teams:

    5.00 Minnesota
    4.75 St. Cloud State
    4.50 Quinnipiac
    4.25 Providence
    4.00 Michigan
    3.75 Ferris State
    3.50 Boston College
    3.25 Wisconsin
    3.00 LSSU
    2.75 Miami
    2.50 Notre Dame
    2.25 Bowling Green
    2.00 Cornell
    1.75 Clarkson
    1.50 North Dakota
    1.25 New Hampshire
    1.00 Northern Michigan
    0.75 Union
    0.50 Minnesota State Mankato
    0.25 Colgate

    And the tournament field:


    Minnesota
    St. Cloud State
    Providence
    Quinnipiac

    Michigan
    Ferris State
    Boston College
    Wisconsin

    Miami
    LSSU
    Notre Dame
    Bowling Green

    Cornell
    Clarkson
    North Dakota
    AHA Champ (37 - Mercyhurst)

    Leave a comment:


  • FlagDUDE08
    replied
    Re: John t whelan ranking simulator

    Originally posted by LTsatch View Post
    What happened to Yale on the QW list? Do already played games point status change as the year goes on? I need to brush up on the new system.
    The Quality Wins Bonus list is effectively the same as the old RatingsPI, with the exception of the weighting for where a game is played (1.2 potential if you win on the road or lose at home, 0.8 potential if you win at home or lose on the road). Yale is currently 26th in RatingsPI before the Quality Wins Bonus is calculated, and all that means is that if a team beats you (or ties, because a tie is defined as one-half win and one-half loss), they will not get any bonus points for having beat (or tied) a "quality team" at the time RatingsPI is calculated. That's not to infer any negative feelings upon your team, of course, just that a "quality team" is defined as a team within the top 20 of RatingsPI prior to the calculation of this bonus.

    Leave a comment:


  • LTsatch
    replied
    Re: John t whelan ranking simulator

    Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
    As of games completed 15 November 2013, here's the quality wins teams:

    5.00 St. Cloud State
    4.75 Minnesota
    4.50 Providence
    4.25 Quinnipiac
    4.00 Miami
    3.75 Boston College
    3.50 Michigan
    3.25 Ferris State
    3.00 LSSU
    2.75 North Dakota
    2.50 Notre Dame
    2.25 Bowling Green
    2.00 Clarkson
    1.75 Wisconsin
    1.50 Northeastern
    1.25 RPI
    1.00 Minnesota State Mankato
    0.75 St. Lawrence
    0.50 Colgate
    0.25 Mass Lowell

    And the tournament field:

    St. Cloud State
    Minnesota
    Providence
    Quinnipiac

    Miami
    Boston College
    Michigan
    Ferris State

    LSSU
    North Dakota
    Notre Dame
    Bowling Green

    Wisconsin
    Clarkson
    Northeastern
    AHA Champ (36 - Mercyhurst)
    What happened to Yale on the QW list? Do already played games point status change as the year goes on? I need to brush up on the new system.

    Leave a comment:


  • FlagDUDE08
    replied
    Re: John t whelan ranking simulator

    As of games completed 15 November 2013, here's the quality wins teams:

    5.00 St. Cloud State
    4.75 Minnesota
    4.50 Providence
    4.25 Quinnipiac
    4.00 Miami
    3.75 Boston College
    3.50 Michigan
    3.25 Ferris State
    3.00 LSSU
    2.75 North Dakota
    2.50 Notre Dame
    2.25 Bowling Green
    2.00 Clarkson
    1.75 Wisconsin
    1.50 Northeastern
    1.25 RPI
    1.00 Minnesota State Mankato
    0.75 St. Lawrence
    0.50 Colgate
    0.25 Mass Lowell

    And the tournament field:

    St. Cloud State
    Minnesota
    Providence
    Quinnipiac

    Miami
    Boston College
    Michigan
    Ferris State

    LSSU
    North Dakota
    Notre Dame
    Bowling Green

    Wisconsin
    Clarkson
    Northeastern
    AHA Champ (36 - Mercyhurst)

    Leave a comment:


  • FlagDUDE08
    replied
    Re: John t whelan ranking simulator

    As of games completed 14 November 2013, here's the quality wins teams:

    5.00 Minnesota
    4.75 St. Cloud State
    4.50 Providence
    4.25 Boston College
    4.00 Michigan
    3.75 Quinnipiac
    3.50 Miami
    3.25 Northeastern
    3.00 Wisconsin
    2.75 Ferris State
    2.50 LSSU
    2.25 Notre Dame
    2.00 Bowling Green
    1.75 RPI
    1.50 North Dakota
    1.25 Minnesota State Mankato
    1.00 UMASS Lowell
    0.75 St. Lawrence
    0.50 Yale
    0.25 Bemidji State

    And the tournament field:

    Minnesota
    St. Cloud State
    Providence
    Boston College

    Michigan
    Quinnipiac
    Miami
    Northeastern

    Wisconsin
    Ferris State
    Notre Dame
    LSSU

    Bowling Green
    RPI
    North Dakota
    AHA Champ (37 - Air Force)

    Leave a comment:


  • FlagDUDE08
    replied
    Re: John t whelan ranking simulator

    Originally posted by Numbers View Post
    Would it depend on if I run the jar file or the exe file?

    EDIT - I have played with this a little more. It seems whichever team is at the top of the list (AIC if by team name, Quinn if by record, Minny by RPI), gets no RPI bonus if you do a recalculate.

    In other words, try this:
    Open your program
    Calculate using 11-12-13 data.
    Note Quinn - RPI - 61.33. w/o Quality wins - 61.09
    Sort by Record, so Quinn is on top
    Now, choose "Load local data" again.
    Note results. Quinn shows RPI=61.09 and w/o bonus also 61.09
    Sort by RPI. Minn is on top. Note RPI 66.96. w/o bonus 65.92
    Choose "Load local data" again
    Now, since you had been sorting by RPI, Minn is on top. But, their RPI bonus doesn't show up.

    Do you get the same results?
    I saved the file, put Minnesota on top, and still calculated 65.92/66.96. I'm using the jar, Java 7 update 25, Linux Mint 13. I'll see what my laptop does, which is WinXP.

    EDIT: Also tried your Quinnipiac issue on my primary setup, I get 61.09/61.33.
    Last edited by FlagDUDE08; 11-13-2013, 07:41 PM.

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  • Numbers
    replied
    Re: John t whelan ranking simulator

    Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
    What I show is that Minnesota's RatingsPI without bonus is 65.92, and with bonus is 66.96. I don't know how you're getting what you're getting, obviously you're using the same data file.
    Would it depend on if I run the jar file or the exe file?

    EDIT - I have played with this a little more. It seems whichever team is at the top of the list (AIC if by team name, Quinn if by record, Minny by RPI), gets no RPI bonus if you do a recalculate.

    In other words, try this:
    Open your program
    Calculate using 11-12-13 data.
    Note Quinn - RPI - 61.33. w/o Quality wins - 61.09
    Sort by Record, so Quinn is on top
    Now, choose "Load local data" again.
    Note results. Quinn shows RPI=61.09 and w/o bonus also 61.09
    Sort by RPI. Minn is on top. Note RPI 66.96. w/o bonus 65.92
    Choose "Load local data" again
    Now, since you had been sorting by RPI, Minn is on top. But, their RPI bonus doesn't show up.

    Do you get the same results?
    Last edited by Numbers; 11-13-2013, 07:14 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • FlagDUDE08
    replied
    Re: John t whelan ranking simulator

    Originally posted by Numbers View Post
    Flag and others,

    I think I now have v 0.4 and Nov 12 games. Here is what I get:

    Minn
    SCSU
    Prov
    BC

    Mich
    Quinn
    Miami
    NoEastern

    Wisc
    Ferris
    NoDame
    LSSU

    Bowling Green
    RPI
    NoDak
    AHA - Air Force at 36th

    Bubble:
    StL
    Lowell
    Mankato


    Also, Flag, I still think something is amiss. Minnesota's RPI and RPI w/o bonus are the same. I am using version 0.4, and 11-12-13 data. Of course, Minny has wins against both BC and NoDame at present, as well as a tie with BC, so their RPI should rise with the bonus.
    What I show is that Minnesota's RatingsPI without bonus is 65.92, and with bonus is 66.96. I don't know how you're getting what you're getting, obviously you're using the same data file.

    Leave a comment:


  • Numbers
    replied
    Re: John t whelan ranking simulator

    Flag and others,

    I think I now have v 0.4 and Nov 12 games. Here is what I get:

    Minn
    SCSU
    Prov
    BC

    Mich
    Quinn
    Miami
    NoEastern

    Wisc
    Ferris
    NoDame
    LSSU

    Bowling Green
    RPI
    NoDak
    AHA - Air Force at 36th

    Bubble:
    StL
    Lowell
    Mankato


    Also, Flag, I still think something is amiss. Minnesota's RPI and RPI w/o bonus are the same. I am using version 0.4, and 11-12-13 data. Of course, Minny has wins against both BC and NoDame at present, as well as a tie with BC, so their RPI should rise with the bonus.
    Last edited by Numbers; 11-13-2013, 05:01 PM. Reason: Minnesota RPI bonus

    Leave a comment:


  • FlagDUDE08
    replied
    Re: John t whelan ranking simulator

    Originally posted by Numbers View Post
    Flaggy,

    Remember when I was asking about the size of the RPI bonus? It seemed really really big to me. Then, I found this on the CHN website explanation:

    The total bonus for the season is divided by the amount of games played (weighted for home-road), to give a final bonus figure.

    This makes much more sense to me.

    I am sure you had explained that, and I just missed it.

    EDIT: Do you have an NCAA ice-hockey link for how to calculate this number? Your list is quite different from CHN's.
    Like I said, I did just notice that, and was discussed previously. Version 0.4 will be released that reflects this change.

    As for your other question, there really isn't a single source that provides a specific algorithm; it had to be derived from the text given.

    Leave a comment:


  • Numbers
    replied
    Re: John t whelan ranking simulator

    Flaggy,

    Remember when I was asking about the size of the RPI bonus? It seemed really really big to me. Then, I found this on the CHN website explanation:

    The total bonus for the season is divided by the amount of games played (weighted for home-road), to give a final bonus figure.

    This makes much more sense to me.

    I am sure you had explained that, and I just missed it.

    EDIT: Do you have an NCAA ice-hockey link for how to calculate this number? Your list is quite different from CHN's.
    Last edited by Numbers; 11-13-2013, 10:17 AM.

    Leave a comment:

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