College Hockey amps up war on Canadian major junior....

[jnacc]

Re: College Hockey amps up war on Canadian major junior....

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To those arguing for CHL players being allowed to play for the colleges, my simple question is; Why? Why does it matter if they are allowed to play for colleges once their done with the CHL? Wouldn't allowing the CHL players who can't hack it there, and get dumped back into the NCAA, make the NCAA a feeder system of sorts to the CHL, and drive down the quality of the NCAA even more? These things ebb and flow, right now the CHL appears to be on top, someday it may slide towards the college ranks.

To remain simple, my answer is "Why not?".

It would be very difficult for the NCAA to become a feeder system to the CHL due to the differences in ages.

You know, perhaps if the hockey powers that be at the exalted "U" (Minnesota Gophers) were not so xneophobic (because that is really the heart of the matter here) they would be in a much better predicament this year and would have won far more championships over the years.

The rest of us are fine with that though....nobody will force you to recruit CHL players, other schools will gladly pick them up.

[bothman]

Re: College Hockey amps up war on Canadian major junior....

The CHL education scholarship program exists....over 500 CHL grads are playing in the CIS today....parents no longer fear a "sacrificed for nothing" future when sending their sons off to the CHL. If they want an education, they can have one at a cost that is very comparable to a NCAA scholarship.

Show me some statistics that back up this paragraph. Not only enrollment statistics of players going to Canadian colleges after falling short in the CHL, but also what opportunities exist to these folks upon graduation - what is their average income, what jobs are available to them, can they get a job in the US, etc?

My gut tells me that your opinion of the CIS is inflated.

[Almington]

Re: College Hockey amps up war on Canadian major junior....

Right on the money.....in 1985 that is.

I wonder if the problem the NCAA is currently facing (losing top end U.S. born players and seeing a decreasing Canadian talent pool due to the CHL) stems from their denial of changing realities?

The CHL education scholarship program exists....over 500 CHL grads are playing in the CIS today....parents no longer fear a "sacrificed for nothing" future when sending their sons off to the CHL. If they want an education, they can have one at a cost that is very comparable to a NCAA scholarship.

Why should the NCAA exclude its self from a vast talent pool of players for some purposes that are no longer relevant? Some fear the loss of elite players, but the NCAA is losing them anyway. For those that it does acquire, the vast majority leave their programs early.

Allowing CHL players will be a win-win situation for everyone involved with the exception of the CIS.

Allowing CHL players into the NCAA is a win for ONLY the CHL and the CHL alone. Not only do they get ALL of the very best players, but are totally absolved of need to provide an education package! In no way is it a win for the NCAA, period.

No, the real losers are those players who leave the CHL and play two of three years bouncing around the ECHL and AHL and then are done with their hockey careers at 23 or 24 with no college degree and they are no longer eligible for the CHL education packages. Not only do they still have to go and complete a degree without the support system that they would have had as a student-athlete at an NCAA schools but they also have to find a way to pay for it 100% out of their own pocket.

[jnacc]

Re: College Hockey amps up war on Canadian major junior....

Show me some statistics that back up this paragraph. Not only enrollment statistics of players going to Canadian colleges after falling short in the CHL, but also what opportunities exist to these folks upon graduation - what is their average income, what jobs are available to them, can they get a job in the US, etc?

My gut tells me that your opinion of the CIS is inflated.

Wow, I mean wow...talk about ethnocentric!

Can they get a job in the U.S???? Well if they were born here, why the hell couldn't they?!?!?!? If they are Canadian...they would have to apply for work visas, even if they graduated from a U.S. college.

What are there average incomes???? Well lets start by you providing me the average income of NCAA hockey grads that do not go on to play pro hockey.

As for CHL scholarship packages, here's some links

http://michiganjuniorhockey.blogspot...olarships.html

http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/t...140079/t-webTV

http://bestofbothworlds.ca/hm/inside...&static_sid=17

http://www.whl.ca/About-p125651

http://www.chl.ca/fullstory.php?id=1324

[Almington]

Re: College Hockey amps up war on Canadian major junior....

Show me some statistics that back up this paragraph. Not only enrollment statistics of players going to Canadian colleges after falling short in the CHL, but also what opportunities exist to these folks upon graduation - what is their average income, what jobs are available to them, can they get a job in the US, etc?

My gut tells me that your opinion of the CIS is inflated.

Their is absolutely nothing wrong with the Canadian colleges and universities as they are absolutely on par with a peer institution in the US.

[jnacc]

Re: College Hockey amps up war on Canadian major junior....

Allowing CHL players into the NCAA is a win for ONLY the CHL and the CHL alone. Not only do they get ALL of the very best players, but are totally absolved of need to provide an education package! In no way is it a win for the NCAA, period.
.

Explain how it would be a loss for the NCAA please?

[Almington]

Re: College Hockey amps up war on Canadian major junior....

Explain how it would be a loss for the NCAA please?

For what seems like the millionth time:

All the best players (particularly all the NHL drafted players) would go to the CHL and only those that the NHL/AHL didn't want to sign would then go to college. The way that the NHL's CBA is set up, once a MJ player reaches 20 either the NHL team has to sign them or they lose the rights to that player. Thus, the talent level would plummet and that would be bad for the NCAA schools.

[FreddyFoyle]

Re: College Hockey amps up war on Canadian major junior....

Show me some statistics that back up this paragraph. Not only enrollment statistics of players going to Canadian colleges after falling short in the CHL, but also what opportunities exist to these folks upon graduation - what is their average income, what jobs are available to them, can they get a job in the US, etc?

My gut tells me that your opinion of the CIS is inflated.

Did you go to the George W. Bush School of Xenophobia?

My goodness, where to start. Let's just say Canadian schools have been working out pretty good for Canadians for a long time. Who cares if they can get jobs in the U.S.?

Now if your concerns are about American-born players attending CIS schools after playing in the CHL, and then getting jobs in the U.S. when they graduate ... well if all American employers are as myopic as you appear to be, then they might really be at a disadvantage against their peers who went the NCAA route. That would be a shame, but I've never heard for instance that Americans who attended the University of New Brunswick (founded in 1785) and played CIS hockey were discriminated against when they went back home and started looking for work ...

But there is one issue that people seem to be glossing over. What percentage of CHL players even have the grades/academics to go to a NCAA or CIS school? Hey, I love Canada and it is a great place to live, but I'm not naive enough to think that every Junior-age hockey player is suited to a university environment. Some of them want to work in mills, or be firemen, or cops, or be plumbers or whatever if they can't be a professional hockey player ... and what's wrong with that?

Hey, I know I'm becoming pedantic, but sheesh, it is getting ridiculous when you start comparing the population of NCAA hockey players and population of CHL players as if they are completely interchangeable!

[Larch]

Re: College Hockey amps up war on Canadian major junior....

For what seems like the millionth time:

All the best players (particularly all the NHL drafted players) would go to the CHL and only those that the NHL/AHL didn't want to sign would then go to college. The way that the NHL's CBA is set up, once a MJ player reaches 20 either the NHL team has to sign them or they lose the rights to that player. Thus, the talent level would plummet and that would be bad for the NCAA schools.

This is exactly what I was getting at. The NCAA then becomes a de facto feeder system (although nobody would move up) or garbage dump, if you will, for the CHL. They would then be on par with the CIS. I guess this alone makes me want the NCAA to stick to their guns on the way they determine an "amateur", and don't get me wrong, I think the NCAA is one of the worst organizations out there for using people for a monetary gain.

[Alton]

Re: College Hockey amps up war on Canadian major junior....

If the Lake Superior fans on this thread are actually confused about why the NCAA hockey community opposes Major Junior eligibility, rather than feigning confusion to make a point, this link, with a letter from USA Hockey and another letter from (jointly) Tom Anastos, representing the Hockey Commissioners' Association, and Joe Bertagna, representing the American Hockey Coaches Association, contains an outline of the reasons for those 3 organizations opposing the change.

[Runninwiththedogs]

Re: College Hockey amps up war on Canadian major junior....

Why should the NCAA exclude its self from a vast talent pool of players for some purposes that are no longer relevant? Some fear the loss of elite players, but the NCAA is losing them anyway. For those that it does acquire, the vast majority leave their programs early.

Ok, I just wrote an exceptionally long post about this and somehow the tab closed. So now I'm angry.

What you mean is a vast talent pool of players who are no longer relevant. Why would kids who are already accelerating their education and moving thousands of miles away from home in order to get to the pros as fast as they can be willing to play in the CHL until they are overage and then go to the NCAA and then go to the pros? They wouldn't. The NCAA would get the leftover kids who couldn't even hack it in the ECHL.

I'm a season ticket holder of an NCAA team. I am hundreds of miles away from the nearest CHL team. Why do I care about a CHL team? I want the best recruits available on the team that I follow. I don't care if the NCAA's rules create a problem for kids choosing between the CHL and the NCAA. The more kids who choose the NCAA, the better for me! That means they'll be more likely to come to my school. I care about what is best for my team. I don't care about 15 year old kids deciding what is best for them. I'm not the mom of some teenager trying to realize his dream of playing in the NHL. I'm a lifelong fan of an NCAA hockey team. The NCAA's ability to prepare and develop players for the NHL is only important to me if it attracts more elite players to come to my team.

Is this a selfish thing to say? Yeah. But anyone who's a fan of an NCAA team should feel the same way, unless they don't care about the level of talent on the ice for their team.

[bothman]

Re: College Hockey amps up war on Canadian major junior....

Did you go to the George W. Bush School of Xenophobia?

My goodness, where to start. Let's just say Canadian schools have been working out pretty good for Canadians for a long time. Who cares if they can get jobs in the U.S.?

Nope. Just calling a spade and spade. I buy my vodka from Poland or Russia, my beer from Germany or Czech Republic, and I want my kids educated in the deepest higher education institution pool with the best job market in the world...you can fill in the blank as to what country I am referring to.

Next you are going to sing the merits of Canada's healthcare system, right?

Can we get back on the subject? Runninwiththedogs, very well said. Too many kids at too young an age go long hockey by choosing the CHL or MJ, and I'd like to see how many of these kids end up with good paying jobs for those that could have qualified for college hockey.

Hey FrddieFoyle - you are right. The world needs ditch diggers too!

[4four4]

Re: College Hockey amps up war on Canadian major junior....

So what financial advantages are CHL players who have not signed a pro contract gaining? The short answer is none! Their so called "compensation" from their respective CHL club is no more than what many Tier II players are receiving.



Is this some very lame *** joke???? Like do you really think posters like Happy matter and will influence the final decision when the NCAA revises its rules? Get real! I was refering to that old washed up club in Minny that use to dictate USA Hockey policy...their day is over....good riddance!

I highly doubt the NCAA will revise its rules. Never going to happen.

[Slap Shot]

You know, perhaps if the hockey powers that be at the exalted "U" (Minnesota Gophers) were not so xneophobic (because that is really the heart of the matter here) they would be in a much better predicament this year and would have won far more championships over the years..

This says nothing about the heart of the matter (the thread topic) but it clearly says a lot about you and the clear bias you bring to the table on several levels.

[jnacc]

Re: College Hockey amps up war on Canadian major junior....

What you mean is a vast talent pool of players who are no longer relevant. Why would kids who are already accelerating their education and moving thousands of miles away from home in order to get to the pros as fast as they can be willing to play in the CHL until they are overage and then go to the NCAA and then go to the pros? They wouldn't. The NCAA would get the leftover kids who couldn't even hack it in the ECHL.
.

Those who wish to play pro hockey as soon as possible will no longer be choosing the NCAA route anyway.....something that is starting to happen. The fact that there are hundreds of former CHL players playing University hockey in Canada suggests that not all CHL players are intent on going pro as soon as possible. The number of CHL players utilizing their education packages and foregoing a pro career is rising year after year....it would be nice to be able to tap into that talent.

All the best players (particularly all the NHL drafted players) would go to the CHL and only those that the NHL/AHL didn't want to sign would then go to college. The way that the NHL's CBA is set up, once a MJ player reaches 20 either the NHL team has to sign them or they lose the rights to that player. Thus, the talent level would plummet and that would be bad for the NCAA schools.

In best, do yo mean the elite players? Well that is where its trending to right now anyway. As I said before, those elite sure fire NHL players that do happen to choose the NCAA are not around for any length of time any way.

As for the rest...those that are drafted by NHL teams (in the lower rounds) where the vast majority will never get a whiff of NHL play, the NCAA could provide the neccessary safety blanket that so many of them crave....why should they be going on to play CIS hockey when they could be playing here???

The CIS brand is still inferior to the NCAA as a whole but there are some programs there that have improved by leaps and bounds and they can now challenge any NCAA school. Heck, Alberta and U.N.B. fans probably feel that they have the best college teams in North America including D-1 hockey.

Around 7 or 8 years ago I attended a "blue liner" lunch in at Lake Superior State when the Lakers were playing Western Ontario. Their coach spoke and made reference to the fact that his school did not beat a single NCAA opponent since 1982! ( I think he was also including D-III in there as well!). Luckily they went on to lose that night against us as well but over the past five or so years, Western Ontario has improved so much that wins against NCAA D-1 teams are no longer rare but frequent. Here is a school that offers what amounts to no more than 1/2 scholarships to its best players yet is able to compete with D-1 teams. How do they do it? With CHL players. I would rather have us be able to tap into those players rather than them.