Attendance at Regionals

[FredDavenport]

Re: Attendance at Regionals

What was the average attendance of the semi-finals and finals of each of the four regionals? I think this would be a perfect number to use as a benchmark for future discussion.

[ericredaxe]

Re: Attendance at Regionals

Agganis would be a great regional site. So would Conti. They are the right size. They are in an area where college hockey flourishes. They are easy to get to by public transit and to drive to. Even if you want to have a rule that BC can't play at Conti and BU can't play at Agganis, you can pretty easily send them to the other eastern site with minor negative impact on attendance. And even 4-5000 in a 7-8000 seat venue is pretty good. If BC/BU is playing even if its in the other guy's Barn, you're going to get a solid turnout. As long as you make the tickets for both games, you're going to have some vacant seats, because some significant portion of the fans are fans of a particular school more than they are hockey fans, and if they are Yale fans, and Yale is playing BU in game 1, they aren't necessarily going to wait 1 1/2 hours to watch BC-Niagara. Nor are most BC and Niagara fans going to arrive for the puck drop of BU-Yale. If you can reduce that wait to 30-45 minutes, you'll probably have more stay. If you sell individual game tickets you might have a bigger crowd at each game, too.

The thing is though, that the eastern sites don't tend to be the "problem" with attendance... manchester and worcester each tend to do pretty well... I think Providence would have done better if the game didn't start at 9:30 PM or whatever it was... Not that Agganis, or Conte, or Tsongas etc wouldn't work well for a regional site either... they would.

[CLS]

Re: Attendance at Regionals

What was the average attendance of the semi-finals and finals of each of the four regionals? I think this would be a perfect number to use as a benchmark for future discussion.

See post 331.

http://inchwriters.files.wordpress.c.../04/attend.pdf

[CLS]

Re: Attendance at Regionals

The thing is though, that the eastern sites don't tend to be the "problem" with attendance... manchester and worcester each tend to do pretty well... I think Providence would have done better if the game didn't start at 9:30 PM or whatever it was... Not that Agganis, or Conte, or Tsongas etc wouldn't work well for a regional site either... they would.

You also have the possibility of the problem that existed when there were regionals at Yost, Englestad, and Mariucci. There were instances in which a lower seed (e.g. Michigan) got a game at their home rink against a higher seeded team. That's manifestly unfair to the higher seeded team. Home rinks are terrible ideas if the venue is pre-assigned.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Attendance at Regionals

You also have the possibility of the problem that existed when there were regionals at Yost, Englestad, and Mariucci. There were instances in which a lower seed (e.g. Michigan) got a game at their home rink against a higher seeded team. That's manifestly unfair to the higher seeded team. Home rinks are terrible ideas if the venue is pre-assigned.

It's also luck of the draw. You could have said the same thing if Brown had beaten Union for the ECAC championship and that 4 seed would have had a "home game" as a regional host. Granted, their fan base doesn't compare to the other schools mentioned, but I think you get the point. There's only so much that you can do without creating a huge cluster____ when it comes to regionals. Perhaps they need to play them in Raleigh, Los Angeles, St. Louis, and DC in order to make sure no one has home ice advantage?

[CLS]

Re: Attendance at Regionals

It's also luck of the draw. You could have said the same thing if Brown had beaten Union for the ECAC championship and that 4 seed would have had a "home game" as a regional host. Granted, their fan base doesn't compare to the other schools mentioned, but I think you get the point. There's only so much that you can do without creating a huge cluster____ when it comes to regionals. Perhaps they need to play them in Raleigh, Los Angeles, St. Louis, and DC in order to make sure no one has home ice advantage?

That's not what I suggested. When I said home rink, I meant that literally, as in Yost, Mariucci, and Englestad; not Twin Cities, Detroit, or North Dakota. The rink that they played all or most of their home games in, the rink that's in the middle of their campus, the rink that they practice in. There's a huge difference between Minnesota playing Holy Cross at the Xcel and Minnesota playing Holy Cross at Mariucci. I particularly object to the examples suggested (Agganis and Conte) because there are suitable, geographically close alternatives available. As was suggested, there's no need to consider them anyway because as has been noted attendance in the Eastern regions has not been a problem.

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Attendance at Regionals

It's also luck of the draw. You could have said the same thing if Brown had beaten Union for the ECAC championship and that 4 seed would have had a "home game" as a regional host. Granted, their fan base doesn't compare to the other schools mentioned, but I think you get the point. There's only so much that you can do without creating a huge cluster____ when it comes to regionals. Perhaps they need to play them in Raleigh, Los Angeles, St. Louis, and DC in order to make sure no one has home ice advantage?

The difference is the designation of "Home Game" vs Home Game. Brown would not have been playing in it's home arena in it's normal locker room. The problem out West is that there are very few venues that fit the bill: good location, proper size, not a team's home building. I don't really know what the answer is out west because other than the Xcel Energy Center (which is probably too big), I can't think of many that would do well. I will say that maybe the way to go now is to attempt to regionalize the bracket more than normal. It will be alot easier for the NCAA to do that now with the reshuffling. I thought the most interesting part of the analysis about the regional setup is how often BU and BC have been forced West and how poorly they've done out west compared to how often western schools have been forced east. Maybe it is time to regionalize east and west

[Jim]

Re: Attendance at Regionals

It's also luck of the draw. You could have said the same thing if Brown had beaten Union for the ECAC championship and that 4 seed would have had a "home game" as a regional host. Granted, their fan base doesn't compare to the other schools mentioned, but I think you get the point. There's only so much that you can do without creating a huge cluster____ when it comes to regionals. Perhaps they need to play them in Raleigh, Los Angeles, St. Louis, and DC in order to make sure no one has home ice advantage?

That's right. I mean UNH plays in Manchester every time there is game there I think. it isn't technically their home rink, but its only 45 minutes away and located in the largest city of a relatively small state. So it's hardly "neutral." And I agree that if you're one of the 4 seeds, they probably should make an effort to move you out of your home arena, though not necessarily your home state. So if Michigan is one of the 4 seeds, I probably wouldn't send them to Yost, but i wouldn't send them to Providence either unless it was absolutely the only option. I think there are also some management things you can do if you need to put Minnesota in its home venue as a lower seed. Some are maybe comfort things. the home locker room is often superior to visitors rooms. Make that off limits. I actually saw this done in a schoolboy football tournament game and the coaching staff said it was very disconcerting for them. Small stuff like that to take away at least a piece of the home ice advantage. I think the reason that the eastern sites don't have the same issues with attendance, or as great an issue anyway, has lots more to do with how compact the hockey "belt" is. Pretty much 2-3 hours north, west or south of Boston takes in a huge percentage of the potential participants, and an equally large percentage of their fans, probably even larger percentage of their fans actually. And there are a number of at least modestly suitable facilities within that relatively compact area. It isn't anything close to that in the west. So if I'm a BU fan and they are sent to Manchester or Worcester or Providence or even Bridgeport I can get there with relative ease. Leave at 3 for a 6:00 game and be home before midnight worst case. Not the same going from OSU to Minneapolis.

[WiscDC]

Re: Attendance at Regionals

The difference is the designation of "Home Game" vs Home Game. Brown would not have been playing in it's home arena in it's normal locker room. The problem out West is that there are very few venues that fit the bill: good location, proper size, not a team's home building. I don't really know what the answer is out west because other than the Xcel Energy Center (which is probably too big), I can't think of many that would do well. I will say that maybe the way to go now is to attempt to regionalize the bracket more than normal. It will be alot easier for the NCAA to do that now with the reshuffling. I thought the most interesting part of the analysis about the regional setup is how often BU and BC have been forced West and how poorly they've done out west compared to how often western schools have been forced east. Maybe it is time to regionalize east and west

Even when the NCAA gives the higher seed a true home game, they still act like it's a neutral site. At the Mercyhurst - Wisconsin women's quarterfinal in 2012, the band wasn't allowed to play "On, Wisconsin" when the players took the ice. They were allowed to do the normal post-goal stuff and perform during breaks, but Mercyhurst was not treated like the road team. I suppose this doesn't matter a whole lot, but there's a different feel when your arena becomes a bunch of blue circles.

[Jim]

Re: Attendance at Regionals

the other advantage of using college arenas that meet some basic standard is that you can probably make your decision on which to use at the last minute, or after the field is set. I mean as a practical matter, if you gave the top seeds home ice, they wouldn't know if the arena was to be used until the tournament schedule was set. So you might well be able to schedule games at Yost pretty late in the process. With neutral arenas that's not the case.

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Attendance at Regionals

Jim you're forgetting a few important things, some arenas are multipurpose like the Kohl Center. Hotel rooms are required for visiting teams and some I these places really can't handle the late additions and teams should not be required to stay far from the arena for a tournament like this.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Attendance at Regionals

Jim you're forgetting a few important things, some arenas are multipurpose like the Kohl Center. Hotel rooms are required for visiting teams and some I these places really can't handle the late additions and teams should not be required to stay far from the arena for a tournament like this.

Lansingburgh can handle them.

[FredDavenport]

Re: Attendance at Regionals

Folks, the point here is that the NCAA should be considering the teams that have the best regular season records have the home advantage, like all others do (MLB, NHL, NBA, NFL, NCAA Men's Lacrosse, NCAA Women's Ice Hockey, NCAA Baseball, Softball & more)

Let's face it neutral sites are only good for the coaches, not the fans, atmosphere, revenue etc.

On the notion that we need to have facilities and hotels ready, this is EXACTLY what has to happen for the conference playoffs when many times teams do not know if they are hosting and where they are going till the last game of the conference season.

[Fishman'81]

Re: Attendance at Regionals

I've said it before, etc...

The NCAA doesn't care about attendance much, as long as the TV money/national exposure exists. Witness all the empty seats at hoops Regionals (which I've seen first-hand a few times) , while the NCAA nevertheless rakes in the dough hand-over-fist via TV for that tournament as a whole.

Same deal for hockey, albeit on a much smaller scale... As long as ESPN is paying to show the games, the gate is irrelevant to them, as it should be.

In this age of all-encompassing media-coverage (watching games on your friggin' phone, for example), fannies in the seats mean less and less. The Super Bowl could be played in an empty stadium this year, and the NFL would still derive a billion bucks from it.

Worrying about physical attendance is a little silly, in light of that fact... And gifting lower seeds home-ice is a worse idea than ever, all things considered. There is just no cogent reason for it.

[Jim]

Re: Attendance at Regionals

Jim you're forgetting a few important things, some arenas are multipurpose like the Kohl Center. Hotel rooms are required for visiting teams and some I these places really can't handle the late additions and teams should not be required to stay far from the arena for a tournament like this.

And how would this be dealt with if a team was getting home ice for the first round? Admittedly a smaller number of teams, but even so, its the same problem. But your right, logistics is an issue. and if you have to stay an hour away that is different from staying 20 minutes away.