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UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

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  • Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

    Originally posted by JB View Post
    It would not make sense in hockey but the 4 in 5 provision for the NCAA even allows you to dress for games just not play. With Hockey all 18 skaters play, maybe a 3rd goalie could use the dress provision. So in Football you can be hanging out in pads on the sideline game day as long as you don't participate in any snaps. One snap and an entire year of eligibility is consumed.
    So here's the disconnect for me. The "injury redshirts" like Nolan and Speelman actually did play - several games apiece, in fact - before they incurred their injuries. It's a bad break for them no doubt, but why does someone like these guys get a "freebie", while another kid who dresses and skates in only a few games (see Harry Quast) gets charged with the full year of eligibility then? I'm not disputing that you are likely 100% correct, I'm just searching for the logic.

    Beyond that, FWIW my recollection is that the NCAA has to sign off on a medical redshirt - presumaby to prevent programs from exploiting this loophole for questionable and/or mystery "injuries". Both Nolan and Speelman had legit, undisputable injuries - Speelman a broken arm/wrist, and Nolan (it's been a long time) blew out a knee or something?
    Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
    Montreal Expos Forever ...

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    • Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

      Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post
      So here's the disconnect for me. The "injury redshirts" like Nolan and Speelman actually did play - several games apiece, in fact - before they incurred their injuries. It's a bad break for them no doubt, but why does someone like these guys get a "freebie", while another kid who dresses and skates in only a few games (see Harry Quast) gets charged with the full year of eligibility then? I'm not disputing that you are likely 100% correct, I'm just searching for the logic.

      Beyond that, FWIW my recollection is that the NCAA has to sign off on a medical redshirt - presumaby to prevent programs from exploiting this loophole for questionable and/or mystery "injuries". Both Nolan and Speelman had legit, undisputable injuries - Speelman a broken arm/wrist, and Nolan (it's been a long time) blew out a knee or something?
      The logic is it protects players and the teams. There are other rules in place governing hardship waivers due to injury...I believe you have to have played fewer than 25% of your teams games, and you can't have played after the end of the first semester in hockey. But for a player who gets hurt 5 games into the season and otherwise would have played 35 games, it gives them a level of protection. They can get the year they lost back, plus there is less incentive for player or team to try and rush someone back before they are potentially fully healthy just to try to get them to play in a couple games at the end of the year...which probably would happen a lot if there was no way to recapture that season. The teams also get the opportunity to bring back a player that they potentially wanted in the lineup. Win win.

      In the situation with a guy like Quast, there were no outside forces impacting his ability to participate in contests. He was either good enough or he wasn't...and most of the time his coaches deemed he wasn't. I imagine he could have said to the coaches, "look I don't want to dress at all this year so I can keep my year of eligibility in tact" but the coaches also could have said thanks, now go find somewhere else to play.

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      • Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

        Originally posted by WIrinkrat View Post
        I can tell you definitively that you have 5 years to use 4 seasons of eligibility in ice hockey. The reason you see a 5th year utilized more frequently with injuries is because people are recapturing a season that would have otherwise been lost because they had participated in competition. The reason you don't see it in a situation like this is because as has been discussed, typically kids that can't crack the lineup in year 1 are a dime a dozen and don't develop into guys that are tough to replace. Or as you mentioned, they are left in juniors to develop further for another year and are not brought to the school until they are ready to contribute. This is certainly a unique situation...but 5 years to play 4 seasons of eligibility is a universal NCAA thing and you can only burn one of those years by participating in competitions, alumni games, or a few other things that you don't ever really see. I'm sure it's not unprecedented by any means, but for a variety of reasons it isn't something that I imagine happens very often under these circumstances.
        I understand that players get 5 years to complete their 4 years of eligibility. My question is if Knodel would have had to declare he was redshirting his freshman year? He was on the active roster and conceivably could have played if injuries had forced him into the lineup. Did the coaching staff have to declare that season a redshirt season before or after his freshman year for him to not use his eligibility? I assume that the NCAA would need some sort of declaration of redshirted season in order for proper record keeping. If that never happened it would be too bad if it was too late for Knodel as a 5th year to even be an option. I doubt the coaching staff was worried about trying to keep him for a 5th year the time. If they would want to now could they go back an retroactively give him a redshirt year for never suiting up his freshman year or has the window for doing that expired?

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        • Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

          Originally posted by CrazedUNHfan View Post
          I understand that players get 5 years to complete their 4 years of eligibility. My question is if Knodel would have had to declare he was redshirting his freshman year? He was on the active roster and conceivably could have played if injuries had forced him into the lineup. Did the coaching staff have to declare that season a redshirt season before or after his freshman year for him to not use his eligibility? I assume that the NCAA would need some sort of declaration of redshirted season in order for proper record keeping. If that never happened it would be too bad if it was too late for Knodel as a 5th year to even be an option. I doubt the coaching staff was worried about trying to keep him for a 5th year the time. If they would want to now could they go back an retroactively give him a redshirt year for never suiting up his freshman year or has the window for doing that expired?
          I don't believe you have to because there is no such thing as a "Redshirt." You can petition the NCAA for extra seasons of eligibility or to recapture a lost season for several things....military, pregnancy, medical hardship, etc...but those things are technically called "hardship waivers" and are only utilized in situations where players have participated in an activity that would otherwise cause them to lose that season of eligibility

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          • Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

            It's possible that Eric Knodel's eligibility status will become irrelavant. The 2013-14 season could very well be his last with UNH because the Maple Leafs will want him to move on to their organization.

            The same goes for TvR, although he does not yet have an official affiliation with an NHL team. Last summer, he participated in the Developmental Camps of Ottawa and Philadelphia. At the end of next season, there is likely to be a lot of pressure for TvR to sign an ATO contract.

            Depending on which team drafts Brett Pesce in June, there could also be pressure for him to leave after the 2013-14 season.

            There are 2 defensemen - Matias Cleland and Dylan Maller - targeting next fall as the time to enroll at UNH. Two more defensemen - Dylan Chanter and Cam Marks - are targeting the Fall of 2014. If Knodel, TvR and possibly Pesce leave after the 2013-14 season, UNH will need all four of these recruits to be prime contributors in the 2014-15 season.
            Last edited by C-H-C; 04-22-2013, 11:03 AM.
            The UNH Men's Hockey Blog

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            • Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

              Not an expert (and I didn't stay at a Holiday in Express last night)

              My understanding is you used to get 4 years. You could apply for a hardship exemption for injury, military service, etc. Hardships were basically always granted to extend to a 4 in 5 situation. Some Universities (cough football cough) took advantage by claiming hardships to 'redshirt" freshman – “Dear NCAA he tweaked his hami real bad in preseason workouts and will need a whole year to rehab it honest.”

              Eventually the NCAA said screw it when a player hasn't even played everybody gets 4 in 5 that is it, stop bothering us with this stupid stuff.

              I don't believe you even need to "apply" for a redshirt it just happens. Academically ineligible skip the full year - 4 in 5. Go on a mission or studies abroad skip the full year - 4 in 5. Need to withdraw from school to take a year off for a family emergency - 4 in 5. Transfer and sit year in residence at the new school - 4 in 5. As long as you miss the entire year 4 in 5, and leave us alone.

              Play just 1 game - break a leg, get called up by the military, family emergency etc. etc. Apply for a hardship (“redshirt”) to get the year back. There are rules typically it is less than 25% of the season. But I am fairly certain Spleeman played more than 25% of full year’s games, but the NCAA chose to grant the waver. The NCAA has been trying not to be so punitive to the current players because past programs were so dirty (see SMU football stupidity).

              My memory is Ed Caron got a hardship waiver reference his transfer and transfer back. It wasn’t an additional year of playing time but a waiver to the sit out rule. Under the normal rules he would have had to sit 1 full at UNH when he came back. That would have been 3 semesters off the ice. But since he transferred back to the school where he started and his initial transfer was for academic considerations the NCAA waved the additional semester sitting out. (This is an example of the NCAA trying to be more accommodating to the athletes and that 18-24 year olds sometime don’t know what they want)
              "Now Progress Takes Away What Forever Took To Find" Dave Matthews Band, The Dreaming Tree

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              • Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

                Originally posted by WIrinkrat View Post
                The logic is it protects players and the teams. There are other rules in place governing hardship waivers due to injury...I believe you have to have played fewer than 25% of your teams games, and you can't have played after the end of the first semester in hockey. But for a player who gets hurt 5 games into the season and otherwise would have played 35 games, it gives them a level of protection. They can get the year they lost back, plus there is less incentive for player or team to try and rush someone back before they are potentially fully healthy just to try to get them to play in a couple games at the end of the year...which probably would happen a lot if there was no way to recapture that season. The teams also get the opportunity to bring back a player that they potentially wanted in the lineup. Win win.

                In the situation with a guy like Quast, there were no outside forces impacting his ability to participate in contests. He was either good enough or he wasn't...and most of the time his coaches deemed he wasn't. I imagine he could have said to the coaches, "look I don't want to dress at all this year so I can keep my year of eligibility in tact" but the coaches also could have said thanks, now go find somewhere else to play.
                Appreciate the time and insight on this. I guess the only other question I have was the one Crazed brings up about having to declare as a frosh (as I believe to be the case in D-1 football) as opposed to declaring retroactively, which would presumably have to be the case now with Knodel.

                Having put that out there, I'm guessing it's all a moot issue, as C-H-C has pointed out. But it's an interesting case study I suppose. Not too many players have fit this same pattern for their D-1 careers, as Knodel has.

                Now for something completely different ... following up on felger's earlier thoughts, how in the H do you select a back-up goalie as an alternate captain?????
                Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
                Montreal Expos Forever ...

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                • Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

                  Originally posted by JB View Post
                  Not an expert (and I didn't stay at a Holiday in Express last night)

                  My understanding is you used to get 4 years. You could apply for a hardship exemption for injury, military service, etc. Hardships were basically always granted to extend to a 4 in 5 situation. Some Universities (cough football cough) took advantage by claiming hardships to 'redshirt" freshman – “Dear NCAA he tweaked his hami real bad in preseason workouts and will need a whole year to rehab it honest.”

                  Eventually the NCAA said screw it when a player hasn't even played everybody gets 4 in 5 that is it, stop bothering us with this stupid stuff.

                  I don't believe you even need to "apply" for a redshirt it just happens. Academically ineligible skip the full year - 4 in 5. Go on a mission or studies abroad skip the full year - 4 in 5. Need to withdraw from school to take a year off for a family emergency - 4 in 5. Transfer and sit year in residence at the new school - 4 in 5. As long as you miss the entire year 4 in 5, and leave us alone.

                  Play just 1 game - break a leg, get called up by the military, family emergency etc. etc. Apply for a hardship (“redshirt”) to get the year back. There are rules typically it is less than 25% of the season. But I am fairly certain Spleeman played more than 25% of full year’s games, but the NCAA chose to grant the waver. The NCAA has been trying not to be so punitive to the current players because past programs were so dirty (see SMU football stupidity).

                  My memory is Ed Caron got a hardship waiver reference his transfer and transfer back. It wasn’t an additional year of playing time but a waiver to the sit out rule. Under the normal rules he would have had to sit 1 full at UNH when he came back. That would have been 3 semesters off the ice. But since he transferred back to the school where he started and his initial transfer was for academic considerations the NCAA waved the additional semester sitting out. (This is an example of the NCAA trying to be more accommodating to the athletes and that 18-24 year olds sometime don’t know what they want)
                  Ii think that's an even better, more detailed explanation. I'd also forgotten the whole Eddie Caron mess. Probably on purpose.
                  Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
                  Montreal Expos Forever ...

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                  • Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

                    Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post
                    Ii think that's an even better, more detailed explanation. I'd also forgotten the whole Eddie Caron mess. Probably on purpose.
                    You think he rooted for Yale in the FF?

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                    • Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

                      Originally posted by Greg Ambrose View Post
                      You think he rooted for Yale in the FF?
                      Given his track record, he's probably still making his mind up as we speak.
                      Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
                      Montreal Expos Forever ...

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                      • Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

                        Former Men's Hockey Standout Bobby Butler Named to U.S. National Team

                        COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. – Former University of New Hampshire men's hockey standout Bobby Butler will make his USA Hockey debut as he has been selected to the 2013 U.S. Men's National Team. USA Hockey announced the selection Thursday afternoon.

                        Currently with the Nashville Predators of the National Hockey League (NHL), Butler graduated from the UNH in 2010. During his career, he played in 153 games, recording 61 goals and 60 assists for 121 points. As a senior, Butler was named a finalist for the Hobey Bakey Award, earned by the nation's top scoring hockey player in Division I. He recorded 29 goals on the year, finishing second in the nation.

                        The Massachusetts native will begin competition with Team USA at the International Ice Hockey Federation Men's World Championship, taking place from May 3-19. The tournament will take place in Helsinki, Finland and Stockholm, Sweden.

                        http://www.unhwildcats.com/sports/mi...20130425fnse7j
                        I will not be out cheered in my own building.

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                        • Huh?

                          Originally posted by Darius View Post
                          As a senior, Butler was named a finalist for the Hobey Bakey Award, earned by the nation's top scoring hockey player in Division I. He recorded 29 goals on the year, finishing second in the nation.

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                          • Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

                            They can't spell "Baker" and you expect them to get the criteria right?
                            Whenever I think of the past, it brings back so many memories. - Stephen Wright

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                            • Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

                              But, do not shoot the messenger Darius, as the original postings from Colorado Springs and the UNH hockey page are at fault.

                              Comment


                              • Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

                                Heavy NCAA flavor on final NHL Central Scouting rankings:

                                http://www.uscho.com/2013/04/29/heav...ting-rankings/

                                Pesce ranked # 40, # 5 on list of college players.
                                I will not be out cheered in my own building.

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