UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

[C-H-C]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

Josh Ciocco:

It is my opinion that (Scott Borek) has done an excellent job of keeping UNH stocked with talent. Since his arrival UNH has only missed the NCAA tournament 1 year. To have the talent capable of making the NCAA tournament on an annual basis is very impressive. Here are a couple things I would like to point out.

First, UNH needs tangible change. Facilities very much so play a role in the recruiting game. I think the Whit is a great rink and the best place to play college hockey in my opinion. But if you go down to BU and BC there is simply no comparing the facilities. Id really like to see UNH enhance the locker room, build a lounge (which just about every other team has one) and potentially build their own weight room (which alot of other teams have). These things DO make a difference.

Since Scott Borek has arrived there have been zero tangible changes made (in the facilities). BU built a palace 1 hour away. Merrimack renovated their entire rink/locker room. Northeastern has built a first class players only weight room and renovated the locker room. Maine has renovated their entire facility. If you think these things do not make his job MUCH more challenging than you are sadly mistaken.

I am not going to say its impossible for UNH to out recruit BU and BC, but it is MUCH more challenging now than it was 15 years ago. Facilities do make a big difference. Look no further than Miami of Ohio and how much better that program has gotten. Look no further than BU and how the program was on a serious decline before Agganis. My Freshman year, the final season at Walter Brown Arena, BU finished 8th place.

Do you know what UNH's recruiting budget is? I wont go into details, but I will tell you that Providence College has double the budget of UNH---how much more do you think BC and BU have? I believe the state and the school need to recommit themselves to having a top notch program and make tangible changes.

[Kdaddy1968]

What exactly is the UNH Men's Hockey program being deprived of financially that's causing the program not to succeed?

* The rink was built almost 20 years ago. No cost overruns, still very functional, better than most in HE. Nothing wrong there.

* Training facilities are by all reports at least average, if not above. Coaches are paid well, with three full-time guys.

* Haven't heard about any travel-related expense issues, and most non-recruiting trips don't require air travel.

So again ... exactly what is the program being deprived of by the folks in Concord? If the argument is that the State should do more for the average UNH student, that's one thing, and I'm not sure I disagree with that. But I struggle to see exactly what the Men's Hockey program is being deprived of. They seem to have it pretty good, certainly when compared to the various other D-1 sports (including football) the school competes in.

Let's not confuse on-ice competitiveness with "bells & whistles" for the overall fan experience. A state-of-the-art scoreboard won't make the team more competitve.

And honestly, how many of these vague, mysterious "hurdles" wouldn't be fixed by simply selling those 1.000-2,000 empty seats at The Whitt 15 times a season??

Again ... I don't mean to single out anyone on the boards here, but sometimes an issue gets raised on here, and folks just seem happy to accept that "hey, the program isn't funded enough, look at what BC and BU do, etc." and it gains traction and acceptance. To me, it's like nails on the chalkboard, and more excuse-making. Heck, why can't the fans just be satisfied that (in a season where there are four (4) newcomers to the FF) UNH is "the only team to have won an NCAA tourney game in 4 of the last 5 seasons"?

'Cuz we all know after all, that programs like Quinnipiac and UMass-Lowell are just awash in funds, and have bought their way to the top, right??

True . You want to see deprived look at UVM

[e.cat]

Josh Ciocco:

I guess this is your answer Chuck. Next question....

[Hux]

Not to single out one quote, as I've seen similar comments about the fiscal limitations at UNH ... but do you guys really think UNH's shortcomings over the last decade - and the last few years specifically - have had anything to do with finances? Short of specific examples, I just see it as another excuse, right up (down?) there with "puck luck", etc.

My comment was in regards to a comment about the luncheon in Naples. While the men's program is on solid ground, any coin raised means less has to come out of the athletic department budget to support the program. Ultimately that benefits other athletic programs.

However, I think BU is a perfect example of a program that was on a downward slide until they committed to upgrading their facilities from WBA to Agganis. Is a fancy video scoreboard the answer? Probably not, but sometimes it can be the littlest thing that makes the difference between landing a prized recruit and watching him go elsewhere.

The main point that was being made though is that admissions has ttightened up over the last six years or so. I can name several players on the women's side that did not make it through admissions and went on to have stellar careers at other programs. If it happened several times to Coach Mac, how many times do you think it has happened to Coach Umile?

[goblue]

Can't we just stop playing in the Verizon all together?

Except in odd-numbered years, in March -- right?

[WildShawn]

'Cuz we all know after all, that programs like Quinnipiac and UMass-Lowell are just awash in funds, and have bought their way to the top, right??

The facilities at both of those schools are light years ahead of what UNH has right now, and Tsongas is similar in age to the Whitt, but recent renovations have pushed it ahead of any other in the league...

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

However, I think BU is a perfect example of a program that was on a downward slide until they committed to upgrading their facilities from WBA to Agganis. Is a fancy video scoreboard the answer? Probably not, but sometimes it can be the littlest thing that makes the difference between landing a prized recruit and watching him go elsewhere.

I dunno, the "downward slide" of BU's last 10 or so years in Walter Brown Arena looks pretty comparable to the 8+ seasons they've since been in Agganis ... one national title and two HE Tourney titles apiece. Looking past that, BU teams have won 25+ games twice since the move, and 7 times in the last 10 full seasons at WBA. Their results in the Beanpot obviously have fallen short of their past standards. Listen, I think Agganis Arena is a palace too, and I think it was a much-needed boost for the BU program, but looking at the big picture, I think it's actually a "perfect exampe" of how folks can put too much emphasis on better facilities producing better results.

The main point that was being made though is that admissions has ttightened up over the last six years or so. I can name several players on the women's side that did not make it through admissions and went on to have stellar careers at other programs. If it happened several times to Coach Mac, how many times do you think it has happened to Coach Umile?

... and this was posted on the very same evening that Yale won the Men's D-1 title. Wow.

[WildShawn]

I dunno, the "downward slide" of BU's last 10 or so years in Walter Brown Arena looks pretty comparable to the 8+ seasons they've since been in Agganis ... one national title and two HE Tourney titles apiece. Looking past that, BU teams have won 25+ games twice since the move, and 7 times in the last 10 full seasons at WBA. Their results in the Beanpot obviously have fallen short of their past standards. Listen, I think Agganis Arena is a palace too, and I think it was a much-needed boost for the BU program, but looking at the big picture, I think it's actually a "perfect exampe" of how folks can put too much emphasis on better facilities producing better results.

.

They've also gone up, head to head, against possibly the best run by any program on this generation right down the street.... They have gotten better players than they were getting at the end of the WBA run, and that resulted in a pretty good run in 09 if I remember correctly... If you don't think the new facility helped get them a national championship....

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

Josh Ciocco by way of C-H-C:

It is my opinion that (Scott Borek) has done an excellent job of keeping UNH stocked with talent. Since his arrival UNH has only missed the NCAA tournament 1 year. To have the talent capable of making the NCAA tournament on an annual basis is very impressive. Here are a couple things I would like to point out.

First, UNH needs tangible change. Facilities very much so play a role in the recruiting game. I think the Whit is a great rink and the best place to play college hockey in my opinion. But if you go down to BU and BC there is simply no comparing the facilities. Id really like to see UNH enhance the locker room, build a lounge (which just about every other team has one) and potentially build their own weight room (which alot of other teams have). These things DO make a difference.

Since Scott Borek has arrived there have been zero tangible changes made (in the facilities). BU built a palace 1 hour away. Merrimack renovated their entire rink/locker room. Northeastern has built a first class players only weight room and renovated the locker room. Maine has renovated their entire facility. If you think these things do not make his job MUCH more challenging than you are sadly mistaken.

I am not going to say its impossible for UNH to out recruit BU and BC, but it is MUCH more challenging now than it was 15 years ago. Facilities do make a big difference. Look no further than Miami of Ohio and how much better that program has gotten. Look no further than BU and how the program was on a serious decline before Agganis.. My Freshman year, the final season at Walter Brown Arena, BU finished 8th place.

Do you know what UNH's recruiting budget is? I wont go into details, but I will tell you that Providence College has double the budget of UNH---how much more do you think BC and BU have? I believe the state and the school need to recommit themselves to having a top notch program and make tangible changes.

* I'm not here to criticize or laud Coach Borek's recruiting abilities. I claim no expertise in this area. Others here are far more qualified to comment;

* As noted in my previous post, the results at BU really haven't changed all that much pre-Agganis and post-Agganis. Maybe if you are a player like Ciocco and focus only on your four years in the league, I can see how that might shade your perception, but in the end, it's not just about four years. In fact, BU teams of the 1990's performed better at WBA than their teams of the 1980's in a presumably less outdated version of the WBA. You can look it up;

* UMaine "has renovated their entire facility". How's that been working out for them?

* NU has "a first class players only weight room and renovated the locker room". Double ditto -- 10th place;

* "Merrimack renovated their entire rink/locker room." As well they should have ... the place was (and in someways still is) nothing more than a glorified HS arena. I'm sure it helps them avoid the "walkaway factor" (i.e. why would I want to play 4 years in this dump?) in the recruiting process. After that though, isn't it really down to a guy like Coach Dennehy and his staff getting the culture of the program changed? Ditto for Coach Bazin at UMass-Lowell??

* The comparison to Miami of Ohio makes me twitch, and for all of the wrong (but sadly well-known) reasons;

With all due respect, IF it really does come down to (1) an upgraded locker room; (2) a player's lounge; and (3) their own separate weight room, this is hardly a calamity of epic proportions. In fact, to me it all sounds pretty superficial. These are "wants" - not "needs". I mean, having a separate weight room, so the players don't have to mix with the other student-athletes ... that's going to make them want to lift more weights and do more weight-training?? Please. Just get in there and do your work, princess.

The "elephant in the room" when it comes to comparisons with BC and BU are two-fold: one, they have Boston only a trolley ride away IF your recruit is going to want to enjoy the city's nightlife. No way to change that, no matter the charms of Portsmouth. And two, there is the matter of the trophy case, tradition and national exposure. Which is why NU always finds itself stuck in neutral.

Ask yourself this question ... if you could magically switch Agganis Arena with Matthews Arena (which I love BTW) over the summer, do you really think that in 5-10 years' time, Northeastern will become the "new superpower" in HE, and BU will slide down to the bottom of the league?

Again, with all due respect, I think the whole facilities argument - at least as it applies to UNH currently - is just another excuse for underperformance. JMHO.

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

They've also gone up, head to head, against possibly the best run by any program on this generation right down the street.... They have gotten better players than they were getting at the end of the WBA run, and that resulted in a pretty good run in 09 if I remember correctly... If you don't think the new facility helped get them a national championship....

Helped? Maybe. But they also won back in 1995 with WBA, when by all accounts, that place was already two-plus decades behind the times.

Maybe UNH should offer Mike Boyle a lifetime contract? I frankly think he has more to do with BU's success than their facilities ...

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

The facilities at both of those schools are light years ahead of what UNH has right now, and Tsongas is similar in age to the Whitt, but recent renovations have pushed it ahead of any other in the league...

The most important "renovation" done at Tsongas has been the Head Coach of the Men's Hockey program, no?

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

Again, with all due respect, I think the whole facilities argument - at least as it applies to UNH currently - is just another excuse for underperformance. JMHO.

Correct. I love Josh and hope he becomes the new Assistant Coach. And it is admirable that he doesn't throw any of the existing staff under the bus (that only happens once they're fired, right Bobby Corkum)
That said, one must distinguish between wants and needs. I imagine every team wants the bells and whistles, and can convince an administrator that a want is really a need.
The biggest upgrade at BU was coach Quinn in 2004, not the Agannis in 2005. That is why they won in 2009, and have fallen back after that.
The biggest upgrade at Miami-Ohio was Enrico Palazzo in 1999 not the arena in 2007
The biggest upgrade at UNH was Coach Mac in 1992, and the 1993 class of Bogy, Nolan, Murray, not the Whit in 1996
New blood, not new bricks, is the biggest thing. Except if you are the old blood, and then need to sell new bricks.

[UNHhockey29]

Except in odd-numbered years, in March -- right?

Right!

[Jacques "Rabbit" Poriveau]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

Josh Ciocco:
It is my opinion that (Scott Borek) has done an excellent job of keeping UNH stocked with talent. Since his arrival UNH has only missed the NCAA tournament 1 year. To have the talent capable of making the NCAA tournament on an annual basis is very impressive.

Josh Ciocco:
First, UNH needs tangible change.

I guess this is your answer Chuck. Next question....

Nexte questione - huh?

Sound like Josh eez talking out of bof side of his ace to me.

Is Borek doing "an excellent job" ou do UNHs "needs tangible change"? Ow eet can be bof I don't no.

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

Is Borek doing "an excellent job" ou do UNHs "needs tangible change"? Ow eet can be bof I don't no.

Tucker’s office in Pettee Hall is just a long slap shot across Main Street from the Whittemore Center, the home of New Hampshire’s hockey team. It was there that defenseman Joey Laleggia came for an unofficial visit last February, and, after liking what he saw, gave the coaches a verbal commitment that he’d attend UNH and play hockey for the Wildcats in 2010.

Clearly the UNH facilities became antiquated between 2010 and 2012 when the College Hockey freshman of the year decommitted.