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UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

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  • CrazedUNHfan
    replied
    Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

    Yes they havent been all small players. What I was trying to say is that the rink gives an advantage to faster skilled players. This advantage has been seen through a long list of smaller forwards that have come throuh UNH. This is very well shown in UNH's history.

    If you consider the top 5 alltime scorers that have played in the whitt at some point in their careers
    Mowers
    Krog
    Haydar
    Collins
    Boguniecki

    All of them are under 6 feet and would be considered smaller by hockey standards

    Then in the 11 years from the 1995-1996 season to the 2005-2006 season all but one of our leading scorers for a given year was under 6 feet tall
    The exception was Lanny Gare in 02-03 who was a towering 6' 1''

    The whitt is a playground for small players that can be shifty in open ice. Smaller players that wouldnt be able to take the physical beating of playing in a smaller rink with more hitting and less open space are more likely to come here. The open ice makes them more effective and those players want to be in a situation where they will succeed. I think that we will see this phenomenon from Kelleher next year.
    Last edited by CrazedUNHfan; 04-18-2013, 10:50 PM.

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  • Jacques "Rabbit" Poriveau
    replied
    Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

    Originally posted by CrazedUNHfan View Post
    I think it helps. Most of our best players have fit the mold of small fast players that excel on the larger ice surface. Krog, Saviano, Haydar, McFlicker, and even our leading scorer from the 2012 season Stevie Moses all fit the mold that I described.
    I tink da hoel rinks size talk est pointeless mais non, da aven't all beened small faste playeur

    Winnik
    Van Reimsdyk
    Kessel
    TVR
    Hemingway
    Filipowicz
    Bekar
    Nickulas
    Thompson
    Smith
    Downing

    Leave a comment:


  • Verkligen
    replied
    Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

    Anyone else notice the kid wearing a UNH sweatshirt, helping to take care of folks near the blasts on Boylston? Just wondering if anyone has any idea who it was, how the University might recognize him, etc.

    Have seen it in media clips... Terribly sad and terribly proud at the same time.

    Leave a comment:


  • CrazedUNHfan
    replied
    Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

    I think it helps. Most of our best players have fit the mold of small fast players that excel on the larger ice surface. Krog, Saviano, Haydar, McFlicker, and even our leading scorer from the 2012 season Stevie Moses all fit the mold that I described. I think that the larger ice surface can help recruit players that think that will excel with the extra space. If they believe that the they have the best chance to succeed on the Olympic size rink UNH has a leg up in recruiting.

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  • C-H-C
    replied
    Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

    Originally posted by QUAlum2004 View Post
    I have a question for the UNH people. How much does having the Whittemore Center on Olympic size ice hurt recruiting along with a dated building that needs updating?
    Here are the main reasons James van Riemsdyk - #2 overall pick in the 2007 NHL Draft - chose to play for UNH:

    "James, being from a town more than an hour from major cities, really liked the location of the UNH campus. Second, James liked the idea of maneuvering around the olympic-sized rink at the Whittemore Center. Finally, JvR wanted to play the UNH style of hockey which emphasizes skating, passing, and transitions."
    Other top recruits who have committed over the last few years have also said they were attracted to UNH in part because of the olympic-sized ice surface. For example:

    Tyler Kelleher - "I've played in one game at UNH two summers ago in a tournament. I loved the rink and I really liked how big the ice surface was. I think it is definitely an advantage for me as a smaller player with more space."

    Shane Eiserman - "Yes, I have played (at the Whittemore Center) before in a couple of summer tournaments. I really like the olympic sized rink because your speed is a huge advantage and you are able to make more things happen with more time."
    Last edited by C-H-C; 04-17-2013, 12:24 PM.

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  • C-H-C
    replied
    Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

    Here's a list of recent UNH recruits who considered going to an Ivy League program:

    Liam Darcy - "Ivy League schools Harvard, Yale and Cornell also showed interest."

    Danny Tirone - "I was also considering the University of Vermont and Harvard, but when it came time to make a decision, UNH really stood out and made it an easy choice for me."

    Patrick Grasso - "What other college programs were recruiting you?" Grasso: "Minnesota State, Harvard, Yale, Colorado College, RPI, St. Cloud State, Penn State, and Princeton."

    Collin MacDonald - "To show how quickly MacDonald’s stock has shot up, consider that he visited one college after the EJHL Classic (Providence College). Then, last week, he visited four more schools on the drive up to – or returning from -- the Beantown Classic (Harvard, UNH, Sacred Heart, and Quinnipiac). Also, Penn State was trying to get him on campus, and other Ivies such as Dartmouth and Brown were calling."

    Leave a comment:


  • scoreboard
    replied
    Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

    I checked UNH's foreign language requirements against other similar schools (UVM, Maine, UML, UMass) on a site called collegedata.com. UNH's requirements regarding foreign language is basically the same as those schools. Do other schools bend the requirement for athletes? Maybe.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chuck Murray
    replied
    Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

    Originally posted by Josh Ciocco View Post
    I have been accused of many things, but being politically correct has never been one of them. I'd just like to give voice to the real challenges the program faces. If you guys care about the program you should be entitled to be informed about the challenges and issues and hopefully I have answered some questions.

    Cheers.
    Speaking for myself only, I find it refreshing to actually come on here and get some real insight, without the agenda-laden excuses that often reach us second-hand. I'm a firm believer in the saying "The harder I work, the luckier I get" ... so it was only the "luck" comment you made caused me to twitch. Just a little anyway.

    I still have to believe most recruits put more stock into substance (i.e. coaches and program histories) than in the "bells & whistles", and I suspect both players AND coaches try to downplay the importance of establishing personal connections, as the process - as with any type of personal "sales" jobs - involves more rejection than acceptance, and no one likes to be "rejjected" OR seen as the "rejector". So sometimes it may be convenient for a recruit to say "Yeah, I really liked those facilities a lot", but does it make any sense for a kid to commit 4-5 years of their life to a really swell weight room, when he just can't stand the coach's guts, and won't fit with the program's style of play?

    There was the example raised earlier of Sean Collins, and he reportedly said at some point after the fact that had Agganis been built when he was playing, he would've played there instead. Sure, that's easy to say now ... but considering UNH recruited his HS teammate (Stave Saviano) the previous year, AND the Reading HS head hockey coach had direct ties with UNH and Coach Umile, you can see there was probably a little bit of polite reinvention of history in his after-the-fact remarks. Talk is cheap, actions etc.

    Good luck with your career, Josh. And don't be a stranger here. We have lots of other questions requiring your insight, but I won't be a pig (yet) and I'll let others ask 'em.

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  • hockeyjunkie10
    replied
    Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

    Josh - Great insight in the forum and on USHR..definitely some good points made here. As I know you know, the player you referenced is Alex Kerfoot (not Adam). I figured I'd point it out before someone (who knows more than you ha ha) crucifies you for a mistake that it's obvious you know...

    Leave a comment:


  • Josh Ciocco
    replied
    Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

    When I brought up the facilities it was not intended to make an "excuse" for anything. What I was stating is that the Whittemore Center is no longer an "advantage" in recruiting like it was from 1996-2005. This makes the job of recruiting more challenging. I think the Whit is a fantastic buiding to play in. Me personally, I didnt really care about the bells and whistles, I was more focused on the atmosphere and thats why I chose UNH. Every kid is different. I was asked to prioritize the importance of facilities, academics, past success, and coaches--we'll each kid is totally different and there is no right or wrong answers to this question. Some families have academics at the top--those kids will more often then not end up choosing between Harvard and Yale if they can play--see Adam Kerfoot. UNH can get one of these kids from time to time (Brad Flaishans/Eddie Caron), but it's an uphill battle.

    UNH has enough talent to win a national title every year. Yale was the last team to enter the tournament this year. If you make the NCAA tournament, it means you have enough "talent" to win it--maybe the lone exception being the Atlantic League schools, they face a daunting task. That is the assistant coach's job--to ensure the talent is there. I believe their staff has done that year in and year out. You need to have a hot goalie, momentum, and some luck. UNH will get theirs.

    I feel the coaches are doing an excellent job recruiting. Guys like Kelleher and Eiserman are blue chip recruits who could go anywhere they want. In the face of all the current challenges--see foreign language issue--I think they are doing a fantastic job. The recruiting job is harder for UNH now than it was during the so called "peak years." There are more challenges and different obstacles. Foreign language is just one issue--their (admissions) expectations have gone up in regards to the type of student they now accept. So many former great players at UNH would not be admitted now. I am trying to paint a picture of reality here, but some individuals appear very adament about finger pointing at certain people.

    One more comment---someone said that the foreign language requirement is a minor issue and UNH should just "get out in front of it." Well the problem with identifying and recruiting canadian kids at 15 years old, the age required to "get out in front of it," is that they have not gone through the gaunlet of major junior. Is it really worth recruiting these kids at 15 when more often than not the best ones will head to the CHL? You can see the impact this has had on Michigan. Generally speaking, kids from BC will get recruited out of the BCHL, usually during their senior year of high school--after they have passed on major junior. This is too late for UNH in most cases. I believe that exceptions need to be made for students who dont have to take two years of a foreign language to graduate from their high schools. Do you realize how hard it is to convince a kid to go to summer school and take spanish 2 when Michigan or BU is offering the kid a full scholorship and the kid doesnt have to go to summer school?

    These are real challenges. These are real obstacles. I agree the facilities are not "needed." They would REALLY help, but you can still bring in the talent with the current infrastructure. What is needed is for the admissions office to bend. And please do not think that the athletic department has not done everything to make this happen. Men's hockey is not the only program this has hurt. Women's hockey at UNH has been under .500 the last three years. Look at when the new admissions people came in and you will see the Women's teams win total decrease each year.

    And yes, I am making a career hockey. I have been accused of many things, but being politically correct has never been one of them. I'd just like to give voice to the real challenges the program faces. If you guys care about the program you should be entitled to be informed about the challenges and issues and hopefully I have answered some questions.

    Cheers.

    Leave a comment:


  • WildShawn
    replied
    Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

    Originally posted by irishfan85 View Post
    Merrimack has a players lounge and is building a bigger better weight room in arena this summer...
    coughcoughLipstickonapigcoughcough

    Leave a comment:


  • QUAlum2004
    replied
    Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

    I have a question for the UNH people. How much does having the Whittemore Center on Olympic size ice hurt recruiting along with a dated building that needs updating?

    Leave a comment:


  • Aerman
    replied
    Originally posted by JB View Post
    Chuck, Yale is not a fair comparison. If a player is smart enough to get into Yale and play hockey are they coming to UNH?.
    Ed Caron

    Leave a comment:


  • irishfan85
    replied
    Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

    Merrimack has a players lounge and is building a bigger better weight room in arena this summer...

    Leave a comment:


  • Greg Ambrose
    replied
    Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread

    Just a few thoughts on the recent topic:
    First, as Crazed points out, kids love stuff. Superficial perhaps to me and Chuck M. but, let's face it, kids are impressed with the baubles. The Whit was state of the art when it opened in 1995. It is not now. The place needs a cleaning first of all. It doesn't have an in-building weight room, and it doesn't have a player's lounge. I'd be willing to bet that BU, BC, Quinnipiac, never mind the Big Ten schools have that stuff. True, Merrimack doesn't have these things, but last time I checked we are not supposed to be competing with Merrimack for players, we are supposed to be competing with the big boys. Now, can UNH afford those amenities either publicly funded (absolutely not!) or privately (doubtful)? So we have to live with the fact that and play up other factors.

    Second issue is admissions. As Josh C has pointed out, times have changed over at T Hall. Players that graced our ice even 5 years ago could not get into the school now. Josh mentioned Sean Collins. I'll concede that without the building he might have not come to UNH (although I heard that when Caron signed he decided to follow suit). But if he also had to clear the current admission hurdle, he might not have even been recruited. Same goes with Mowers, Krog, Bekar, Conklin and a boatload of others. Somehow, some way, there has to be a meeting of the minds between the administration, admissions and the athletic department about what direction UNH athletics is headed. Does the school truly want to compete at a high level in their signature sport? If they do, then the noose has to be loosened in the admissions department. See the next paragraph as an example.

    Chuck cited Yale on this score saying, if Yale can compete with their standards, then UNH can as well, or so he implies. Moving beyond the obvious that UNH isn't Yale, please be aware that the ivies are not above fudging a bit to keep some of their programs competitive. I know I read a couple of years ago in the NY Times that the Ivies have some sort of scoring system which the schools are allowed to bypass when it comes to athletics. Something along the lines of allowing a certain percentage of incoming freshmen to fall below the minimum allowable. Can't do it for all teams, but for some. I remember reading how coaches of a particular sport at one school were miffed that they couldn't get kids in but that they were accepted at other Ivies. It appears that the rule is used for different sports at different schools, so you have Yale using it for hockey while Harvard uses it for hoops (god knows what Columbia uses it for).

    The last factor is, of course, the coaching. Whenever I think about coaches and managers I am always reminded of my Dad's comment about Casey Stengel, that he knew him before and after he was a great manager. I suppose there are some here who don't even know who the he!! Casey was. But in my youth he was the manager of all those Mickey Mantle, Yogi Berra led Yankee teams that won pennants and World Series during the 50's. However, before he managed the Yanks, he led the old Boston Braves to multiple cellar dwelling finishes and, after he was bounced by the Bombers, he was the manager of the hapless Mets of 1962. The point of all this is that you have to have the players in order to have a chance to be great. Having them doesn't guaranteed success (just ask North Dakota fans their opinion of Hakstol), but you basically have no chance if you are bumbling along year after year.

    There is no question that UNH can do better in the recruiting wars, but only if everybody is on the same page. Money for building improvements is not going to happen now, period. But it doesn't take money to tweak admissions standards, it only takes some sensible talk by all parties and enough guts to take some action. It really comes down to this. Does UNH want to field a team that can compete at the highest level or does it not? And if they do, what can the administration do to achieve that goal?

    One last thing. Umile will be 65 in December. Let's say he retires within the next three years. If things stay as they are, what high powered coach (a Gwozdecky type) would even entertain the thought of taking the job given UNH's current financial state and admissions policy? If you want to find the answer, watch how things play out at Maine over the next few weeks.

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