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Boston University 2012-13 Season Thread -- Part II

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  • Originally posted by mookie1995 View Post
    again, only two different teams have won a title since we did 4 years ago.
    You are welcome for that
    “Unless you’re Boston College, you don’t get here every year.”

    Pinhead Nation: "gone" but not forgotten

    Originally posted by shrader
    Admin, do you still hate BC? If not, will darin and MAV ever be freed? If you do still hate BC, why is SteveF allowed to post?
    Hockey East Champions: 1987, 1990, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2005, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012
    National Champions: 1949, 2001, 2008, 2010, 2012

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    • Re: Boston University 2012-13 Season Thread -- Part II

      Originally posted by ericredaxe View Post
      How are you defining "elite" then? Do you agree that Duke is "elite" pretty much every year? My point is that I don't believe it is any easier to maintain a hockey program at an elite level than it is a basketball program.
      My point is you don't have to win a large percentage of NCs to be elite. That's why I showed the numbers...we all agree that Duke is an elite program, right? They've won 4 NCs, which equates to something like once every 20 years. How about Kansas? Wow! Kansas, fantastic program, right? They've won THREE. Michigan State (remember the "fab five"?) has won MORE hockey championships than basketball championships. The problem is the PERCEPTION because of the distribution of when they were won. In other words, most schools became elite in the first place because they won a BUNCH of national championships all in one "run." Again, look at UCLA - they won a ridiculous seven years in a row and ten out of twelve. They have won exactly TWO in the 38 years since then. My point is that when BU won three times in the 70s, the expectations went up. We have won TWO in the 35 years since then. So if you agree that the basketball analogy is a good one, then you are saying our success rate is essentially the same as UCLA's in the last 35 years (a program you just said was [I can't go back to the previous page while I'm typing this] "sad" or something to that effect). So which is it? My point is that it SEEMS worse than it is right now because we are in the midst of a horrible season, so everything is magnified. We're all disappointed, but the ship can be righted. But I'm saying that it WON'T be as "easy" as it was in the 70s and 80s because there are more schools playing, and pure numbers tell you that it will be harder to go all the way. By the way, something I didn't mention also was that back "then," it was easier to make the national tournament as well. You had one big league in the East, the ECAC, and most of the teams were not great. In fact, when we won in 1978 we didn't even WIN the tournament - we lost in the championship game to Providence and were SELECTED by a committee after REPLAYING Providence again in a special NCAA "qualifier game" (probably because, as I mentioned a few days ago, there was such a dearth of champions from the East that they knew it would be like handing the tournament to the West if Providence was allowed to go to the NCAAs just because we played an "off" game - no insult to Providence intended - but BU was clearly the best team in the country that year, as they subsequently proved. But still, by today's rules, they would have been OUT.

      So when I say "lower expectations," I don't mean we should suck. I mean that it is unlikely to win NCs at the rate we once did. And I GET IT...everyone is comparing us to BC so this whole thing is exacerbated right now. Let me ask you, before Jerry York, how many National Championships had BC won? What? I can't hear you ("how many passes are we going to make before we shoot?" "FOUR!!!!!!!!!!!" - Gene Hackman in Hoosiers)....what's that? ONE????? How many years between titles? What was that? FIFTY-TWO??????????????????????????????? Is BC an elite program? Were they from 1949 - 2000? I don't know...but do you see my point??
      Last edited by chickod; 02-12-2013, 12:14 PM.

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      • Re: Boston University 2012-13 Season Thread -- Part II

        Originally posted by DaveStPaul View Post
        Well, if "how many people care" was a barrier to getting something posted on the internet, we'd have a very different world, wouldn't we. )
        I was being sarcastic (I live in Massachusetts, remember?)
        Last edited by chickod; 02-12-2013, 12:25 PM.

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        • Re: Boston University 2012-13 Season Thread -- Part II

          Originally posted by mookie1995 View Post
          sorry... mookie was wondering how chickrod manages to survive in f'burf
          Grew up here...housing prices were cheaper and we live .8 miles from the highway for easy commuting access to anywhere. My wife wanted to move to a "suburb" (quiet, small town), but I didn't want to pay 40% more for a house. Of course, now mine is worth 40% less. This proves that women are smarter than men...

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          • Re: Boston University 2012-13 Season Thread -- Part II

            Anyone bringing up UCLA basketball as a comp is full of it. The reason Wooden won all those titles (besides having NBA great big men) was the fact that his players were semi professional. It was the worst kept secret in sports that Wooden ran a very dirty program. He just let Sam Gilbert buy players.

            Please do not compare UCLA basketball to BU hockey. Once UCLA couldn't cheat anymore, they fell apart. They didn't make it to the Final Four for 15 years after they were forced to disassociate from Gilbert. Then, they won the title in 1995 and again got caught cheating with a dirty coach. They haven't won a title since.

            The reason BU isn't an elite program now is because of Jack Parker. He needs to retire. I want to be able to say he can retire whenever he wants and that he's earned it, but really, he just needs to retire now and ride off into the sunset. Let both assistants go and bring in Quinn or Sullivan and let them rebuild the program.
            Feed The Hungry! Click once a day!

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            • Re: Boston University 2012-13 Season Thread -- Part II

              Originally posted by chickod View Post
              By the way, something I didn't mention also was that back "then," it was easier to make the national tournament as well. You had one big league in the East, the ECAC, and most of the teams were not great. In fact, when we won in 1978 we didn't even WIN the tournament - we lost in the championship game to Providence and were SELECTED by a committee after REPLAYING Providence again in a special NCAA "qualifier game" (probably because, as I mentioned a few days ago, there was such a dearth of champions from the East that they knew it would be like handing the tournament to the West if Providence was allowed to go to the NCAAs just because we played an "off" game - no insult to Providence intended - but BU was clearly the best team in the country that year, as they subsequently proved. But still, by today's rules, they would have been OUT....
              this whole chain of events always makes me laugh... could this EVER be pulled off today? (of course not, no... but still)
              a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

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              • Re: Boston University 2012-13 Season Thread -- Part II

                Plus there's just something ridiculous to me about driving ten miles to pick up a gallon of milk when I can basically walk or ride my bike. I enjoy the amenities of the city and put up with the problems...we're fortunate to live on 3 acres with a long driveway (350 from the street) and a 212 acre city park behind us where nobody will ever build...

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                • Re: Boston University 2012-13 Season Thread -- Part II

                  Originally posted by chickod View Post
                  Now explain to me again how "terrible" UCLA's program is....only two schools in HISTORY have won more basketball championships than we have won hockey championships. And they've been playing the NCAA tournament since 1939 (when Oregon won). Before that, the NIT was actually the "elite" tournament before an NCAA tournament was even conceived of. So they've been playing basketball for 74 years and NCAA Hockey for 63.
                  College basketball and college hockey are apples and oranges. Basketball players are trying out for the pros, as they're undrafted, and have that added motivation whereas in hockey they're usually already drafted and the motivating factor is far less. Plus, there's no other comparable level of play for them than the NCAA, whereas in hockey, there are numerous other (supposedly) comparable leagues.

                  That said, UCLA is a bit of an odd case to use. Sure, their overall profile is enormous, but it's largely because Wooden's run there makes Jerry York look like a second-rate chump. From the fall of 1963 through the spring of 1975, they only didn't win the national title twice. But, outside of that run, they have only one title and aren't much more than an above average program overall. Thing is, that run in the '60s and '70s was so far beyond what anybody else in major college sports has done, that you can't simply dismiss it and only pay attention to what happened around it. In the Ben Howland era, aside from a three year run in the mid 2000s, they've had multiple abysmal years of sub .500 teams and multiple missed NCAA tournaments, so the results parallel is there between BU and UCLA. But really, the comparisons don't extend beyond that.
                  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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                  • Re: Boston University 2012-13 Season Thread -- Part II

                    Originally posted by Nick Papagiorgio View Post
                    NESN didn't televise this game so they probably didn't have much video of it. If BU and Harvard don't make clips of it you won't find them.
                    The Garden wasn't even using the normal TV camera booth to show the game on the jumbotron, they were using some camera on a tripod somewhere off to the side and showing that feed, so I doubt there's any highlights that exist anywhere.
                    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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                    • Re: Boston University 2012-13 Season Thread -- Part II

                      Originally posted by chickod View Post
                      Plus there's just something ridiculous to me about driving ten miles to pick up a gallon of milk when I can basically walk or ride my bike. I enjoy the amenities of the city and put up with the problems...we're fortunate to live on 3 acres with a long driveway (350 from the street) and a 212 acre city park behind us where nobody will ever build...
                      no need to apologize! mookie does his golfing in f'burg
                      a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

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                      • Re: Boston University 2012-13 Season Thread -- Part II

                        Originally posted by chickod View Post
                        Michigan State (remember the "fab five"?) has won MORE hockey championships than basketball championships.
                        Wrong Michigan. And the Fab Five never won a title.
                        *****http://farm1.staticflickr.com/27/93628583_d301537c0f.jpg******
                        ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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                        • Re: Boston University 2012-13 Season Thread -- Part II

                          Originally posted by brassbonanza View Post
                          That said, UCLA is a bit of an odd case to use.
                          But I think that's exactly why he used it, to entertain the notion that once you become an "elite" program, when do you NOT remain an "elite" program? How many years do you have to stink before you are dropped from the "elite" ranks. That's why I say it's a PERCEPTION issue. We all think that these schools (NC, UCLA, Michigan State, Kanses, Kentucky, etc) are elite because that's how we REMEMBER them when they were winning titles "regularly."

                          That's why I said, was BC no longer "elite" when they didn't win for 52 years? No more than BU isn't elite any longer, either. I'm just saying that regardless of whether or not we are considered elite, that doesn't mean you have to win every year. And I still maintain it is going to be harder than it was. Don't you think that BC fans were getting impatient at the end of the Ceglarski era? I imagine the same thing happens everywhere. Ned Harkness won at Cornell in 1967 and 1970. How many times has Cornell won it all since? Here's a hint. It starts with "Z" and ends with "O." Are they not still an "elite" Ivy League (and NCAA in general) program? What do you think of when someone mentions Cornell? (besides nuclear physics or something) I don't know about you, but I think "hockey."

                          I think that any competitive person finds it difficult to give it up. If you think about it, that's why they were successful in the first place. If you aren't "driven," you'll never get anywhere in life. If you settle for less than the best, that's what you get. So nobody here is indicting Parker - we just recognize that a person like that needs to be pushed when his time is up. We're not "gloating" or "happy" about it and we have tremendous gratitude and respect for what he has accomplished. Just remember that YOU (that's a "colllective" you) will be in the same situation someday, so it is important to preserve one's dignity. So I don't agree with embarrassing him in the middle of the season. I DO think that he should be told, however, at the end of the season, that the time has come. If he can't admit it to himself, it has to be done for him. But don't think this is any different with any other accomplished person. The day I can no longer break 80 will be a very difficult one for me...because I have played golf for 47 years. It's not easy to confront the fact that you may be failing at something which was at one time effortless. It's like taking away a loved one's driver's license.

                          So while I agree that this has to be done, let's have a little compassion. I know many of us are angry, exasperated, etc. But really, the blame should be placed not on Jack, but on an administration who refuses to 1) recognize (apparently) and 2) confront the issue. Because you can't expect him to step down on his own. Would you??

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                          • Re: Boston University 2012-13 Season Thread -- Part II

                            Originally posted by chickod View Post
                            I know many of us are angry, exasperated, etc. But really, the blame should be placed not on Jack, but on an administration who refuses to 1) recognize (apparently) and 2) confront the issue. Because you can't expect him to step down on his own. Would you??
                            At some level, I would expect him to be able to realize that he's not able to lead the program to the standard he's set over the decades he's been here, and for the good of the program he invested his life to, it's best he step aside. That said, he may not realize that as soon as others around him. My only question is, is there anyone within the department or the university as a whole who has the pull to even broach this topic with him? It's not like Lynch has been around for a long time, Brown has only been here since 05, and there isn't some other high ranking university person who has the pull, not just in title, to say to Jack, you really need to consider that the time has come.
                            ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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                            • Re: Boston University 2012-13 Season Thread -- Part II

                              You're right. Freudian slip. But my point is, the high VISIBILITY of these programs and their success over the years is what has made them elite. Even to the point where the perception is that they've won more than they actually have. Here's another one for you. Georgetown, with all that talent and the very visible John Thompson as the head of that program for years and years (and now his son) has won ONE championship. ONE...as many as Utah, CCNY, Holy Cross and Loyola of Chicago. And FEWER than Oklahoma A&M and Cincinnati.

                              Does anyone think that Oklahoma A&M is "elite?"

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                              • Re: Boston University 2012-13 Season Thread -- Part II

                                Originally posted by brassbonanza View Post
                                At some level, I would expect him to be able to realize that he's not able to lead the program to the standard he's set over the decades he's been here, and for the good of the program he invested his life to, it's best he step aside. That said, he may not realize that as soon as others around him. My only question is, is there anyone within the department or the university as a whole who has the pull to even broach this topic with him? It's not like Lynch has been around for a long time, Brown has only been here since 05, and there isn't some other high ranking university person who has the pull, not just in title, to say to Jack, you really need to consider that the time has come.
                                That's not the way it works. As I mentioned last week, did Ted Kennedy "step down" for the "good of the country?" Will Menino "step down?" It doesn't work like that. When you're a legend, you think you are invincible and immortal. It's just a mind-set and it has been reinforced continuously year after year by adoring, adulating fans who are intoxicated with the success. Look at Woody Hayes? Did he "step down?" He had to punch a player on the field during a game before he was forced out. Did Joe Paterno "step down?" Did Bobby Knight step down? (even after he went off the deep end, throwing chairs and assaulting players) It's just not going to happen.

                                And to answer your question, NO there isn't anyone, and that's the problem. Would YOU walk up to him and tell him it's time to "move on?" Seriously...would you? If you had no authority but bumped into him on the street, would you say, "Jack, I've been a long-time supporter of the program and we have such a wonderful tradition of success, but I think you should give it up?" And did it ever occur to you that this thing that we are getting so worked up about as if it's one of the most important things in our lives is not even that important to them, given what we discussed earlier regarding the standing of "sports" at BU? If a school like Penn State can't find anyone to tell JoePa to leave, how can you expect anyone at little 'ole BU to do it? Isn't that the whole reason Mookie is telling us to flood Brownie's office with complaints (requests, whatever)? Because he knows without a "push," nothing will ever be done?

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