WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, What?

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

Kerdiles and Zengerle are huge parts of our team missing. But if we can barely manage with just those two gone and not a lot missing from last year's squad, I'd say our ceiling is pretty low, even with Kerdiles and Zengerle around.

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

Again with this weekend...

It's what I expect from the program on a year to year basis. As far as this weekend, I expected to see a team that can execute a tape to tape pass. Let's just start there and build.

In regards to "adversity," we were 1-4-1 before this weekend and before Butter's departure.

You're not really pinning your hopes for the season on a freshman recruit are you? Seems pretty tenuous.

Zengerle's loss is not good, but a team that can't lose one player is a bad team.

I've seen 7th and 8th graders deal with adversity better than these Badger teams do.

For someone who doesn't accept mediocrity, you sure are on here a lot over the years rationalizing it and explaining it away.

Reading comprehension Gurt, reading comprehension is not hard.

Go back and re-read the post that you quoted from me in regards to Gopher analysts giving Wisconsin credit for their effort while battling adversity this weekend. That's all I was pointing out. I'm not trying to paint candy canes and rainbows over here.

No one is happy with the start to the season, and no one should be. I've been much more critical of Eaves as this wears on (read article on Butters departure), but I'm going to be irrational either (not saying you are).

[Gurtholfin]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

Reading comprehension Gurt, reading comprehension is not hard.

Go back and re-read the post that you quoted from me in regards to Gopher analysts giving Wisconsin credit for their effort while battling adversity this weekend. That's all I was pointing out. I'm not trying to paint candy canes and rainbows over here.

My bad. Probably just taking all the candy canes and rainbows from your years' past posts and attributing them to your current comments.

And the "effort" on Saturday was not what I'd call good. Adversity or no adversity.

Moral victories at this level are for losers.

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

My bad. Probably just taking all the candy canes and rainbows from your years' past posts and attributing them to your current comments.

And the "effort" on Saturday was not what I'd call good. Adversity or no adversity.

Moral victories at this level are for losers.

Just because I don't call for a coaching change every weekend doesn't mean I'm happy with the situation. I'd completely agree with your Saturday analysis. Ryan Little said after the game that it was embarrassing. I'd agree.

[Gurtholfin]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

Just because I don't call for a coaching change every weekend doesn't mean I'm happy with the situation. I'd completely agree with your Saturday analysis. Ryan Little said after the game that it was embarrassing. I'd agree.

Nobody else is calling for a coaching change after every weekend either. It's been years of mediocrity with a couple of peaks. There's no excuse for this considering the inherent advantages we should have over at least 45 other programs.

A bad season or underachievement is understandable every once in a while, but we have the opposite here. Good seasons happen every once in a while.

I didn't just arrive at frustrated Saturday night at 10pm.

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

It's been years of mediocrity with a couple of peaks. There's no excuse for this considering the inherent advantages we should have over at least 45 other programs.

A bad season or underachievement is understandable every once in a while, but we have the opposite here. Good seasons happen every once in a while.

I'm not disagreeing.

[Gurtholfin]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

And it's killing attendance.

VERY depressing to go to a game and have over half of the 200's empty and a good portion of the 100's also empty.

Can't wait for Friday night!

[Gurtholfin]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

I used the Saturday game for talking points for my bantam team's pre game talk on Sunday morning.

We're trying to stress the importance on the little things, especially good, crisp, accurate passing. Tape to tape.

Trying to show them how this will buy them time and space and how it all falls apart with a pass that's in the skates, behind the receiving player or one that flutters.

Those that had watched the Badger game were citing examples that they had seen the night before.

We had a really good game, btw.

[Tiggsy]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

I preface this keeping in mind that Badger fans are collectively angry about the current state of the program, defensive of the lone Eaves' title in '06 and that your post probably was only half-serious. With that said, it's comical that a Gopher fan would call out a Badger championship for being played in state. What other school has benefitted more from playing (or potentially play) tournament games in-state and usually within a few miles of campus? I'm not saying that it diminishes all or any of the won WCHA and NCAA titles, but gimme a break pointing out when someone else does it.

Not that I know for sure, but I'd be shocked if Milwaukee was ever seriously considered as a venue for the WCHA Frozen Five or the upcoming Big Ten Final Fours.

Michigan. I don't think it's even close when comparing the Gophers to them looking at the long list of home regionals.

But on the bright side, by losing 3 pts. this weekend, and not saying anything mean about his hair, Wisconsin didn't get placed on Don's dreaded "Unhealthy Rivalry" list. So you got that going for you.

Probably has a little something to do with this series will continue in the future no matter what. Not so with the no-name team. That and no one has been pulled from a handshake line.... yet.

[icebadger]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

A little graphical aid to the argument at hand:


This Eaves' era roughly covers the period that I've been attending games and if anything, it looks like this recent downturn 2010-11 to present is a little worse and a little longer-lasting than 2-year hangover following the '06 title. I'm not sure whether the addition of 2 teams in Bemidgi St. and UNO in 2010 makes our 10th place finish seem better or worse (never mind, it was just terrible).

Personally, I don't expect us to win the MacNaughton that often. It's only happened 3 times in the program's history. I do expect the team to be, let's say top 3-4 in the standings consistently and/or win the WCHA playoffs more often (11 times total, last one in 1998). I don't know the Sauer era as well, but perhaps the more 'experienced' of those among us can enlighten us on the ups and downs of that era.

[solovsfett]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

A little graphical aid to the argument at hand:


This Eaves' era roughly covers the period that I've been attending games and if anything, it looks like this recent downturn 2010-11 to present is a little worse and a little longer-lasting than 2-year hangover following the '06 title. I'm not sure whether the addition of 2 teams in Bemidgi St. and UNO in 2010 makes our 10th place finish seem better or worse (never mind, it was just terrible).

Personally, I don't expect us to win the MacNaughton that often. It's only happened 3 times in the program's history. I do expect the team to be, let's say top 3-4 in the standings consistently and/or win the WCHA playoffs more often (11 times total, last one in 1998). I don't know the Sauer era as well, but perhaps the more 'experienced' of those among us can enlighten us on the ups and downs of that era.

very illustrative graph, thanks.

to me UW has the facilities and history to beat 60 of 64 teams out there (mich, minnesota, nodak, denver would be 4 I'd argue can give UW a run in one or the other or both), with that at your disposal alone you should be able to put an NCAA team together by accident. We're talking about being a top 16 team of 64. make the top 25%. shouldn't be that difficult. a down year or two happens to everyone but 4 of 6 and likely 5 of 7? that is what is absolutely unacceptable.

anyway, Jeff Sauer: took over for Badger Bob and reeled off 13 consecutive seasons of 21 wins or more and 21 was the anomaly, the next lowest total in that run was 23 games won. After winning the title in 83 UW missed the NCAA's 4 straight years, however they were in contention those years and had great teams (Scott Mellanby, Tony Granato, Steve Tuttle, Paul Ranheim et al), there was very little if any complaining, I mean hell they beat the U.S. olympic team at some point in there (I think 87?) and the were in contention and that's the major point, they were ALWAYS in contention.

what derailed Sauer was two major things: Losing Grant Standbrook derailed the Canada pipeline...but even after that UW got the pick of the best recruits in the country for another 2-4 years where **** near everyone they brought in was coveted by the BC's, Nodak's, DU's, Michigan's of the world: Blaine Moore, Brian Rafalski, Jason Zent, Kelly Fairchild, Chris Tucker, Chris Nelson, Sean Hill, Doug McDonald, Andrew Schier, Barry Richter, Dan Plante, Jason Francisco, Jamie Spencer, Max Williams, Jim Carey

(that run of recruits should have landed *at least* one NCAA title but it goes to what Almington alludes too, playing as a cohesive TEAM, which they certainly did not, they had too much talent maybe. played like there were 5 pucks out there... however where I disagree in part is that these UW teams while they didn't play cohesively were so effing loaded with talent up and down the roster that they won in spite of themselves, their worst record being 24-15-4 (that being the year where all that was left of the core was Spencer/Rafalski/Williams))

point 2 on Sauer, 1992. plain and simple 1992's NCAA final's meltdown had many parents turned off to UW and rival coaches used it against them in recruiting for the next 4-5 years.

the first tell-tale sign of trouble was losing out on Brian Holzinger (future hobey baker winner). later it was guys like matt pettinger and more. Sauer began to lose out on the big-time gets and even the guys that would be great 2nd-line players. consequently they were derailed. Dany Heatley and Steven Reinprecht came in and masked the larger problem of a roster full of 3rd and 4th liners. once they were gone it was the end of Sauer's era

Eaves is in trouble right now. The fans are speaking by not showing up to the games. It's embarrassing in all aspects. There's no reason for this but it is what's happening and right now we have no choice but to sit here and hope that 2 players can turn the season around. to me that underscores what I said last year, there's just a dearth of talent on this team, plain and simple. Gurtholfin analyzed this past weekend far better than I ever could

and to think of the future, what happens if UW doesn't make the NCAA's this year? Zengerle leaves? and UW has 1 season to try and make a run and the turnover happens again and it's huge. Kerdiles will likely go after 2 years and where's the scoring going to come from? A frosh named Grant Besse? he can't shoulder the load by himself.

someone send me some optimism

[burd]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

I used the Saturday game for talking points for my bantam team's pre game talk on Sunday morning.

We're trying to stress the importance on the little things, especially good, crisp, accurate passing. Tape to tape.

Trying to show them how this will buy them time and space and how it all falls apart with a pass that's in the skates, behind the receiving player or one that flutters.

Those that had watched the Badger game were citing examples that they had seen the night before.

We had a really good game, btw.

If you taped it, please send a copy to Grand Forks.

On the bright side, I read that Twinkies will likely survive. If they can get past this difficult time, then there's hope for the future of Badger hockey too.

Just don't ask Alvarez to choose.

[Almington]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

(that run of recruits should have landed *at least* one NCAA title but it goes to what Almington alludes too, playing as a cohesive TEAM, which they certainly did not, they had too much talent maybe. played like there were 5 pucks out there... however where I disagree in part is that these UW teams while they didn't play cohesively were so effing loaded with talent up and down the roster that they won in spite of themselves, their worst record being 24-15-4 (that being the year where all that was left of the core was Spencer/Rafalski/Williams))

point 2 on Sauer, 1992. plain and simple 1992's NCAA final's meltdown had many parents turned off to UW and rival coaches used it against them in recruiting for the next 4-5 years.

the first tell-tale sign of trouble was losing out on Brian Holzinger (future hobey baker winner). later it was guys like matt pettinger and more. Sauer began to lose out on the big-time gets and even the guys that would be great 2nd-line players. consequently they were derailed. Dany Heatley and Steven Reinprecht came in and masked the larger problem of a roster full of 3rd and 4th liners. once they were gone it was the end of Sauer's era

Eaves is in trouble right now. The fans are speaking by not showing up to the games. It's embarrassing in all aspects. There's no reason for this but it is what's happening and right now we have no choice but to sit here and hope that 2 players can turn the season around. to me that underscores what I said last year, there's just a dearth of talent on this team, plain and simple. Gurtholfin analyzed this past weekend far better than I ever could

and to think of the future, what happens if UW doesn't make the NCAA's this year? Zengerle leaves? and UW has 1 season to try and make a run and the turnover happens again and it's huge. Kerdiles will likely go after 2 years and where's the scoring going to come from? A frosh named Grant Besse? he can't shoulder the load by himself.

someone send me some optimism

I was ready for a coaching change after last season, that's when it became apparent to me that this coaching staff was completely incapable of maximizing the results with the talent available.

I still don't believe that this team has any less talent then any other team, they just get far less out of that talent then other teams. Why do so many players come to UW highly regarded out of juniors, falls short of expectations while at UW, and then go off to success at the pro level. How can UW have so many pro players off the teams of the last 7+ years and yet have such poor overall results?

On top of that, it is nearly impossible to CONSTANTLY out recruit EVERY single other team. You might be able to do it for a few years, but EVERYONE is after all of the top recruits and eventually you will miss on some players (the NHL draft is full of busts, recruiting is the same way).

Every other team goes through adversity, many of those teams are able to rise above it, UW always seems to wilt under adversity. Sure sometimes adversity will sink a team, but you'd expect them to be able to rise above it given that they have some true leadership to guide the team.

[Gurtholfin]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

If you taped it, please send a copy to Grand Forks.

On the bright side, I read that Twinkies will likely survive. If they can get past this difficult time, then there's hope for the future of Badger hockey too.

Just don't ask Alvarez to choose.

Alvarez was seen at local groceries hoarding them by the case.

He's fat.

[solovsfett]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

I was ready for a coaching change after last season, that's when it became apparent to me that this coaching staff was completely incapable of maximizing the results with the talent available.

I still don't believe that this team has any less talent then any other team, they just get far less out of that talent then other teams. Why do so many players come to UW highly regarded out of juniors, falls short of expectations while at UW, and then go off to success at the pro level. How can UW have so many pro players off the teams of the last 7+ years and yet have such poor overall results?

On top of that, it is nearly impossible to CONSTANTLY out recruit EVERY single other team. You might be able to do it for a few years, but EVERYONE is after all of the top recruits and eventually you will miss on some players (the NHL draft is full of busts, recruiting is the same way).

Every other team goes through adversity, many of those teams are able to rise above it, UW always seems to wilt under adversity. Sure sometimes adversity will sink a team, but you'd expect them to be able to rise above it given that they have some true leadership to guide the team.

good points all. I know UW can't win every recruiting battle and I also agree that w/some of the NHL talent that's come through madison (Craig Smith, Derek Stepan, Brendan Smith to name a few) it's baffling they haven't put up more wins (although I'd submit as well that given the 3 years prior to 2010 and 2 years after it that run seems more and more like an anomaly)

regardless there don't seem to be answers on the horizon and I wonder how long this continues before Alvarez actually notices the avg to subpar seasons are beginning to hurt attendance and enthusiasm for the team