WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, What?

[markwojo]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

Here's a list of the NCAA schools with the most players playing in the NHL last year:

Michigan (23 players)
Wisconsin (22)
BC (21)
North Dakota (17)
Michigan State (16)
Minnesota (15)

Perhaps Michigan State has a similar problem to what we have, but do you know what the rest of those schools have in common? They are CONSTANTLY in contention in their conferences, and rarely miss the NCAAs. We are RARELY in contention in the WCHA (to be fair, that's a problem we've had forever) and will frequently miss the NCAAs. We have the talent, and it is producing at the next level. There are only so many things that can be missing for us.

Here's some results for those programs since '05/06:

wins
BC (190)
Michigan (188)
North Dakota (188)
Minnesota (156)
UW (154)
MSU (148)

Frozen four appearances
BC (5....3 titles and 2 runnerups)
North Dakota (5 ...1 runnerup)
Wisconsin (2...1 title and a runnerup)
Michigan (2...1 runnerup)
MSU (1....1 title)
Minnesota (1)

Times missing the NCAA tourney
Wisconsin (4)
Minnesota (3)
MSU (3)
BC (1)
Michigan (0)
North Dakota (0)

[Gurtholfin]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

To me the next question is "Why haven't the players since the 06 team taken over leadership of this team?" or, I think a better way to put it "Why have the players not taken ownership of this program?"

Eaves is the man at the top, and ultimately responsible for the overall program, but the players themselves must be held responsible for their performance on the ice. A head coach can only do so much to influence the outcome of any specific game.

I'm certainly not suggesting that Eaves can influence the results once they are in game.

Why haven't players taken ownership? Maybe they haven't been given the same opportunity that Burish & Co. were.

I remember hearing at the time that Eaves was overbearing and that eventually Adam went to him and said "Enough!" Things needed to be different. After that, I recall that Eaves and Burish would have weekly meetings and that a balance and understanding was reached.

We haven't had another Burish so maybe Eaves has clamped down again and won't allow for the players to claim that level of ownership? Burish was special, even if some like to pooh pooh his importance. Who else would have the balls to look Eaves in his crazy-eyes and stare right back?

It's incumbent on any leader to give his people an environment where they have the best opportunity to succeed. Is this happening?

Who knows.

[Timothy A]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

I can't help but wonder what Gwozdecky might have been able to accomplish at UW over the last decade given what he has accomplished at DU with much more limited resources.

I have often wondered the same thing. That is what's been so frustrating to me. DU hasn't finish lower than 4th in the wcha since 2002. Their average finish is in the wcha is 2.8, UW's is 5.1. This year and next have to be stellar, considering UW has a lot of experience and experienced goaltending I have faith in.

I think being in the B6 will a positive for Eaves, he'll have a better chance of winning the league title and making the ncaa's due to an easier schedule (which should = more wins.)

The next 6 games are not easy, @UMD, CC and @ the rodents. Is 4-2 too much to expect?

[Innova]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

Nic Kerdiles released a statement tonight:

"I want to thank everyone for all the support. Just want to let you know that all your support has been helping my family and I a ton! Thank You!"

"I have the appeal tomorrow and should be informed either that night or hopefully no later then friday about the decision!"

So we probably won't hear anything today, one way or the other? I'm sure you will keep us updated Chuck.

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

So we probably won't hear anything today, one way or the other? I'm sure you will keep us updated Chuck.

I'm not sure if we'll hear anything today or not. I'm sure as soon as the news breaks it will be everywhere.

[Innova]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

Chuck posted and update. Looks like Pulver paid for a hotel room that Nic stayed. The family eventually paid Pulver back, but that seems to be at the heart of the matter.

[Gandalf the Red]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

I'm certainly not suggesting that Eaves can influence the results once they are in game.

Why haven't players taken ownership? Maybe they haven't been given the same opportunity that Burish & Co. were.

I remember hearing at the time that Eaves was overbearing and that eventually Adam went to him and said "Enough!" Things needed to be different. After that, I recall that Eaves and Burish would have weekly meetings and that a balance and understanding was reached.

We haven't had another Burish so maybe Eaves has clamped down again and won't allow for the players to claim that level of ownership? Burish was special, even if some like to pooh pooh his importance. Who else would have the balls to look Eaves in his crazy-eyes and stare right back?

It's incumbent on any leader to give his people an environment where they have the best opportunity to succeed. Is this happening?

Who knows.

The thing I have noticed over the years is the way the team plays late in games, especially if they have a lead or are tied. And this part can't be atributed to the kids on the team, because it wouldn't be so consistent. As a fan, I often get the feeling that UW plays not to lose games, instead of playing to win games. I can think of some classic 2+ goal leads where they just sat back thinking the game was done and let the opponent dictate momentum and play until the final buzzer. I think Eaves' HORRIBLE record in OT doesn't do much to tell me I'm wrong. It's one thing to have some bad luck, another to have not won a conference game that went into OT since 2007. I never have a good feeling going into OT because the impression I get from them is they are sent on to the ice to not win the game, but to not lose the game instead.

Maybe I'm wrong, but season after season of seeing the same thing from the 200 level of the kohl center tells me this is a trend. It could be the overall style Eaves coaches that leads to this, because I've never heard a kid come out and say they are coached not to win, but the caution they take is obvious, to me at least. It could be Eaves' style, I don't know.

Eaves is a great recruiter and is obviously doing something right because there are a lot of UW players he coached collecting phat $ in the NHL right now, but something is missing. There have been too many underachieving teams in between stellar 06 & 10 performances.

[Gandalf the Red]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

Chuck posted and update. Looks like Pulver paid for a hotel room that Nic stayed. The family eventually paid Pulver back, but that seems to be at the heart of the matter.

A night or two in a hotel not paid back "promptly" is an improper loan? The NCAA is stretching it there. If they paid it back yesterday because this came up, yes that is bad. If they paid it back even by the end of the summer, the NCAA is a joke (ok more a joke than we already thought).

And I agree w/ Chuck's point in the article about Pulver, how incompetent can they be? It is their job to not put a kid in this situation by something THEY did. I hope he has a new family advisor by now, and any NCAA bound kid stays miles away from their clown shoes agency.

[solovsfett]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

I'm certainly not suggesting that Eaves can influence the results once they are in game.

Why haven't players taken ownership? Maybe they haven't been given the same opportunity that Burish & Co. were.

I remember hearing at the time that Eaves was overbearing and that eventually Adam went to him and said "Enough!" Things needed to be different. After that, I recall that Eaves and Burish would have weekly meetings and that a balance and understanding was reached.

We haven't had another Burish so maybe Eaves has clamped down again and won't allow for the players to claim that level of ownership? Burish was special, even if some like to pooh pooh his importance. Who else would have the balls to look Eaves in his crazy-eyes and stare right back?

It's incumbent on any leader to give his people an environment where they have the best opportunity to succeed. Is this happening?

Who knows.

you know this could be a big part of what's went wrong...no Burish's, or someone like him to take control as you're saying, asking the Coaches to back off a bit but holding your fellow players accountable for what the Coaches are asking.

Burish like Steve Rohlik might be a once every 10-15 years type of leader. I thought Rhino had it but maybe not, that team underperformed badly in the playoffs.

I'm not sure what it will take but the late in game collapses and the lack of intensity in OT need to become a memory. I remember watching Michigan in the mid-to-late 90's when they had Morrison, Botterill, Knuble et al between 94-98 and they just never let up. I think the only time I saw Berenson call off the dogs was when they were up 8-4 over UW mid-way through the 3rd and that score was closer than the game actually was.

whatever it is that will spark it I hope the kids find a way to take ownership of the team. if they can do that, anything will be possible.

[Almington]

you know this could be a big part of what's went wrong...no Burish's, or someone like him to take control as you're saying, asking the Coaches to back off a bit but holding your fellow players accountable for what the Coaches are asking.

Burish like Steve Rohlik might be a once every 10-15 years type of leader. I thought Rhino had it but maybe not, that team underperformed badly in the playoffs.

whatever it is that will spark it I hope the kids find a way to take ownership of the team. if they can do that, anything will be possible.

If those true natural leaders are so rare, why do other teams have consistently high performance? Are they better at finding and recruiting those leaders, or have they instilled a culture that BUILDS the next leader to take over?

[DoorCtyBadgers]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

A night or two in a hotel not paid back "promptly" is an improper loan? The NCAA is stretching it there. If they paid it back yesterday because this came up, yes that is bad. If they paid it back even by the end of the summer, the NCAA is a joke (ok more a joke than we already thought).

And I agree w/ Chuck's point in the article about Pulver, how incompetent can they be? It is their job to not put a kid in this situation by something THEY did. I hope he has a new family advisor by now, and any NCAA bound kid stays miles away from their clown shoes agency.

and with this alleged violation and Wisconsin being involved in shoegate a few years ago it doesn't appear anything good can from it....the UW is marked territory, this shall be interesting

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

and with this alleged violation and Wisconsin being involved in shoegate a few years ago it doesn't appear anything good can from it....the UW is marked territory, this shall be interesting

You're reaching.

[Gurtholfin]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

If those true natural leaders are so rare, why do other teams have consistently high performance? Are they better at finding and recruiting those leaders, or have they instilled a culture that BUILDS the next leader to take over?

Maybe those teams have a coach who empowers those leaders - lets them become those leaders.

[solovsfett]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

If those true natural leaders are so rare, why do other teams have consistently high performance? Are they better at finding and recruiting those leaders, or have they instilled a culture that BUILDS the next leader to take over?

I'm not entirely certain to be honest. If we throw talent out the window (who's winning the recruiting wars (is nodak or mn winning more head to head recruiting battles, etc), who left early, who was projected with more upside/who was more of a project or reach) and assume the levels when all is said and done are equal amongst the 5-6 teams we've thrown in the mix:

I'd suggest they've instilled a culture that helps build the next leader or encourages someone or a group of 2 or 3 to choose that role and run with it.

part of what makes me say the Burish and Rohlik types are rare is the maturity level they showed early, Burish and the frosh marching to Eaves' office to voice support during the Leavitt situation, then later Burish telling Eaves to calm down and taking over the on-ice Coach role. Rohlik and Osieki saw the 1990 team partying too much and after a big meltdown (coincidentally it was against either NMU or MTU I forget which) got the team together to commit to not partying the last 2-3 months of the season (story is in the "Shot In A Goal" book) and focusing on the goal of getting the 5th championship in school history, and that's also when they put up the sign "60 minutes, no alibis, no regrets" iirc...

however those are the more extreme examples for UW... I'm assuming the BC's and Michigan's, Denver's, Nodak's and Minnesota's all have situations where it's implied the role is to be taken up by someone with the dedication and intensity necessary to keep his team in line and focused on the season long goal. Situations where it wouldn't be necessary to have weekly side meetings w/the Coaches to iron out the details of what the team's feeling and what the Coaches want, etc.

it's vexing to me. now that you've gotten me thinking about this from another angle I don't recall in 07 feeling that UW had inferior talent. it was more underwhelming and uneven performances (I know they had 1-2 key injuries that year as well) that resulted in a .500 record which made the end result much more frustrating to watch unfold

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

Doesn't appear that there will be a Kerdiles decision tonight.