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WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, What?

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  • #16
    Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

    Washington County is on the St. Croix. Of all the metro counties it is the one I am in the least.
    the state of hockey is good

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    • #17
      Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

      Originally posted by solovsfett View Post
      re-posted from Almington as it's pretty insightful...

      hopefully last weekend was a hiccup
      That might be the nicest thing you have ever said about any of my posts.

      I suspect that the 2009-10 team that lost in the champ game in Detroit was, by far, the most talented team that Eaves has had at UW, but I think that the 2005-06 team was a much better team in that everyone who was on the team come the playoff ONLY cared about winning the championship, they were not concerned about what their NHL entry level contract offer would be or if they could get enough games in to burn a year of service towards free agency. If anything, Earl saying that he would be back was a result of that, he WAS committed to playing at UW for his senior season and the fact that Pavs signed so late in the summer indicates the same thing.

      Sometimes circumstances force players to leave early when they don't want to, but in general, I believe that regardless of how talented a player is if a player leaves during the season, they are not going to be team players, they are primarily concerned with themselves and their future and winning games and making the team better is secondary.

      Re Kerdiles: I believe that he is committed to the Badgers and to making this team win, someone who was only concerned about himself and making the NHL would have already left (maybe as early as the NCAA started to investigate, but certainly as soon as the original suspension was handed down). Regardless of what happens with Kerdiles, this could be the us vs. them moment that can bind this team together: give them the drive to win in spite of a complete injustice handed down by the NCAA.

      FYI: this should be part XXIII (23) since when I started with 2003-04 season thread I included all of the in-season, off-season, and recruiting threads.
      Last edited by Almington; 10-17-2012, 01:32 PM.

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      • #18
        Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

        Originally posted by solovsfett View Post
        re-posted from Almington as it's pretty insightful...

        hopefully last weekend was a hiccup
        I agree on both accounts.

        Hopefully 2 weeks of practices til the next series will help.
        Wisconsin Hockey: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11 WE WANT MORE!
        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Come to the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod
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        Originally Posted by Wisko McBadgerton:
        "Baggot says Hughes and Rockwood are centering the top two lines...
        Timothy A --> Great hockey mind... Or Greatest hockey mind?!?"

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        • #19
          Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

          *non-topic* As long as it's an off week, kinda, if you're ever driving in the Green Bay area on Wednesday mornings at 10 AM, tune in to 107.5. They talk to Gamblers coach Derek LaLonde for about 20 minutes. Good insight on the team and the USHL.

          Last week when traveling the area, I heard them talking about a goalie as a probable high draft pick. I didn't catch his name, his college or MJ commit, or if he's even that far along. I think I heard he was about 16. Any Gamblers fans, know who it could be? Chuck?
          "Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." Vince Lombardi

          "License to kill gophers by the government of the United Nations. Man; free to kill gophers at will. To kill, you must know your enemy, and in this case, my enemy is a varmint....and a varmint will never quit...ever. They're like Viet Cong...Varmint Cong, so you have to fall back on superior intelligence and superior firepower...and that's all she wrote. Au revoir, gopher." Karl Spackler 1980

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          • #20
            Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

            Originally posted by MadCityRich View Post
            *non-topic* As long as it's an off week, kinda, if you're ever driving in the Green Bay area on Wednesday mornings at 10 AM, tune in to 107.5. They talk to Gamblers coach Derek LaLonde for about 20 minutes. Good insight on the team and the USHL.

            Last week when traveling the area, I heard them talking about a goalie as a probable high draft pick. I didn't catch his name, his college or MJ commit, or if he's even that far along. I think I heard he was about 16. Any Gamblers fans, know who it could be? Chuck?
            Guessing he's probably talking about Cameron Hackett, a kid that Green Bay took in the futures draft this past year. Pretty big time prospect, and Wisconsin has been in touch with the kid. He's also a fourth round OHL pick, and is a serious risk to play up there. He's from Sault Ste. Marie., Ontario.

            He would be a 2014 or 2015 recruit. BU, Michigan State, & North Dakota also have showed interest.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Chuck Schwartz View Post
              Guessing he's probably talking about Cameron Hackett, a kid that Green Bay took in the futures draft this past year. Pretty big time prospect, and Wisconsin has been in touch with the kid. He's also a fourth round OHL pick, and is a serious risk to play up there. He's from Sault Ste. Marie., Ontario.

              He would be a 2014 or 2015 recruit. BU, Michigan State, & North Dakota also have showed interest.
              Why would he be in the ushl if he was seriously going to play MJ? Does the ohl team that holds his rights have a logjam at goalie? Would seems like the Canadian junior leagues would work just as well as the ushl.

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              • #22
                Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

                Originally posted by Almington View Post
                Why would he be in the ushl if he was seriously going to play MJ? Does the ohl team that holds his rights have a logjam at goalie? Would seems like the Canadian junior leagues would work just as well as the ushl.
                Well, he's not really in the USHL either...Green Bay just owns his rights. He did play one game with them, but isn't on the active roster right now. Since he's not sure if he wants to play college or major junior at this point, there's no reason for him to give up his NCAA eligibility. He's young (only a 96), so he's got a few years before he has to make a decision.

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                • #23
                  Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

                  Nic Kerdiles released a statement tonight:

                  "I want to thank everyone for all the support. Just want to let you know that all your support has been helping my family and I a ton! Thank You!"

                  "I have the appeal tomorrow and should be informed either that night or hopefully no later then friday about the decision!"

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                  • #24
                    Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

                    Originally posted by Almington View Post
                    That might be the nicest thing you have ever said about any of my posts.
                    I didn't mean to be harsh in the past, I probably could have worded my arguments better. You're bringing up points that I've heretofore been too cynical or pessimistic to consider.
                    Everything in its right place, Wisconsin Hockey National Champs!


                    "but you're not as confused as him are you. it's not your job to be as confused as Nigel". Tap pt 1.

                    "I think it's ****ing stock. What--? Which part of that is unclear to you? I think it sounds stock to my ears. I mean, do you want me to write it down?" Tap Pt. 2

                    Who???! So What!!!! Big Deal!!!!

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by solovsfett View Post
                      I didn't mean to be harsh in the past, I probably could have worded my arguments better. You're bringing up points that I've heretofore been too cynical or pessimistic to consider.
                      No need to apologize. While we have different view points about what the problem is, what we have never disagreed about is wanting UW to be a winning team and a perennial championship contender.

                      It's become clear to me that something isn't right, that these teams are underperforming compared to their talent level. On a player by player comparison no other program has a consistent advantage over the Badgers. That changes the question from "why are we not winning?" to "why are these teams underperforming relative to their talent level?" which results in completely different answers. Theoretically, if losing is your issue, recruiting more and better talent should solve that problem, provided that you can consistently do that (which is going to be very difficult given scholarship limitations and competition for top recruits).

                      If the problem is that the team underperforms relative to its talent level compared to other teams, recruiting more talent will solve the la k of winning issue, but only by treating a symptom and not the underlying problem. It wasn't until this weekend, as I suffered through yet another come from ahead loss that it dawned on me that the one constant for the past few seasons was the team underperforming relative to talent and the more I thought about that the clearer it became that EVERY team from 2006-07 to now has underperformed relative to talent we've just become very good at making excuses: early departures, injuries, inexperience, bad officiating, general bad luck. At some point you have to look past all of those excuses and try and find the common underlying cause.

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                      • #26
                        Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

                        Originally posted by Almington View Post
                        At some point you have to look past all of those excuses and try and find the common underlying cause.

                        Yep. And since these players turn over every few years, what is the only constant since 06?

                        Besides the Kohl Center of course.

                        The point I made at the end of the other thread in regards to Burish & Co. is how I feel about this. The players took over the leadership of that team and willed themselves to the next level, going from a very good team to an unstoppable team.

                        You just can't count on that kind of chemistry happening or that a perfect storm will come together. Most of the time, it will have to come from the head coach and we haven't seen him able to consistently get his team to play at an elevated level.

                        In addition, we've seen him drive off every staple of the Badger program since his arrival. Long time equipment manager. One of his assistants. Most importantly - Howie. Didn't he even fire the long-time receptionist?

                        He gets to choose his staff, and maybe there were good reasons to move on from these people. Maybe they were so used to the Sauer Country Club that they just couldn't function at the Eaves level of intensity. But you have to wonder about a work environment and a boss when there is so much turnover.

                        Take all of these things as a whole (including the team underachieving and recruiting/unbalanced class issues) and the arrow points to just one spot. Right up towards the top.

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                        • #27
                          Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

                          Originally posted by Almington View Post
                          It's become clear to me that something isn't right, that these teams are underperforming compared to their talent level.
                          Here's a list of the NCAA schools with the most players playing in the NHL last year:

                          Michigan (23 players)
                          Wisconsin (22)
                          BC (21)
                          North Dakota (17)
                          Michigan State (16)
                          Minnesota (15)

                          Perhaps Michigan State has a similar problem to what we have, but do you know what the rest of those schools have in common? They are CONSTANTLY in contention in their conferences, and rarely miss the NCAAs. We are RARELY in contention in the WCHA (to be fair, that's a problem we've had forever) and will frequently miss the NCAAs. We have the talent, and it is producing at the next level. There are only so many things that can be missing for us.
                          If you want to be a BADGER, just come along with me

                          BRING BACK PAT RICHTER!!!


                          At his graduation ceremony from the U of Minnesota, my cousin got a keychain. When asked what UW gave her for graduation, my sister said, "A degree from a University that matters."

                          Canned music is a pathetic waste of your time.

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                          • #28
                            Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

                            Just wanted to share that I crossed paths with Josh Engel. He is now coaching with the Milwaukee Junior Admirals, their Squirt team. My son's team scrimmaged the Jr Ad's in Josh's first game as their coach a couple weekends ago. He apparently just got the job as the prior coach had been let go a month into their season. I was a little suprised he had given up playing as he had been playing in the AHL and is still pretty young. I'm not sure you make a ton of money in the AHL though, so if he got a good job in the Milwaukee area and can dabble with coaching to stay in hockey (I think some of those AAA coaches can make a very nice secondary income) he may be better off financial. For what it is worth, we played to a 4-4 tie (it was the kind of tie your are disappointed in as I felt we had the better of the play)

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                            • #29
                              Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

                              I've always been a pretty staunch supporter of Eaves and think he is a really good coach. I've also been preplexed by the uneven results. While a championship and a championship game appearance are pretty darn good (and not that far off of my expectations for the ultimate goals for a program like Wisconsin), the valleys relative to those peaks have been pretty steep also. I have no doubt that the uneven classes have played a part in it starting from his first few years where he needed to take large classes and that has rolled through the program every 4 years with a real uneven cycle of either very young or very experienced teams. Going into this season, we were at the point where the pendulum swing toward the experienced and my expectation were also on the upswing. One week does not make a season so I will be watching to see how things really unfold though. I would have thought that by this point we might have been able to even out the classes a little, but the revolving door of kids not panning out or panning out to well and going pro early have not seen that happen.

                              Regardless of the how's and why's, I think this is a pretty critical year for turning the corner and maybe getting to a more concistant place. Kerdelies is a pretty darn good player so hopefully his appeal ends well and he can play sooner then later for the Badgers. Regardless, this is a pretty experienced team that should have more success then last year. I also think that the combination of Eaves track record of getting guys to the next level and the opening of a legit practice facility should lead to more success recruiting.

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                              • #30
                                Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

                                Originally posted by Gurtholfin View Post
                                Yep. And since these players turn over every few years, what is the only constant since 06?

                                Besides the Kohl Center of course.

                                The point I made at the end of the other thread in regards to Burish & Co. is how I feel about this. The players took over the leadership of that team and willed themselves to the next level, going from a very good team to an unstoppable team.

                                You just can't count on that kind of chemistry happening or that a perfect storm will come together. Most of the time, it will have to come from the head coach and we haven't seen him able to consistently get his team to play at an elevated level.

                                In addition, we've seen him drive off every staple of the Badger program since his arrival. Long time equipment manager. One of his assistants. Most importantly - Howie. Didn't he even fire the long-time receptionist?

                                He gets to choose his staff, and maybe there were good reasons to move on from these people. Maybe they were so used to the Sauer Country Club that they just couldn't function at the Eaves level of intensity. But you have to wonder about a work environment and a boss when there is so much turnover.

                                Take all of these things as a whole (including the team underachieving and recruiting/unbalanced class issues) and the arrow points to just one spot. Right up towards the top.
                                To me the next question is "Why haven't the players since the 06 team taken over leadership of this team?" or, I think a better way to put it "Why have the players not taken ownership of this program?"

                                As fans that last question is very, very frustrating because we want more than anything to take ownership of this program and have the success that we KNOW that it should yet their is NOTHING that we can do to directly improve the situation, it makes us feel completely helpless.

                                Eaves is the man at the top, and ultimately responsible for the overall program, but the players themselves must be held responsible for their performance on the ice. A head coach can only do so much to influence the outcome of any specific game.

                                Originally posted by ExileOnDaytonStreet View Post
                                Here's a list of the NCAA schools with the most players playing in the NHL last year:

                                Michigan (23 players)
                                Wisconsin (22)
                                BC (21)
                                North Dakota (17)
                                Michigan State (16)
                                Minnesota (15)

                                Perhaps Michigan State has a similar problem to what we have, but do you know what the rest of those schools have in common? They are CONSTANTLY in contention in their conferences, and rarely miss the NCAAs. We are RARELY in contention in the WCHA (to be fair, that's a problem we've had forever) and will frequently miss the NCAAs. We have the talent, and it is producing at the next level. There are only so many things that can be missing for us.
                                It's great to have a reputation for getting players to the next level, but does a culture exist among the players that this is more about getting to the next level (ie the NHL) and less about winning at UW? I don't have a answer to that, but I do know that teams GENERALLY take on the personality of their coaches.

                                I don't think that anyone doubts that Eaves is an excellent hockey coach and developer of talent, but I'm beginning to wonder if he'll ever be able to be anything more than a good head coach at the college level. I can't help but wonder what Gwozdecky might have been able to accomplish at UW over the last decade given what he has accomplished at DU with much more limited resources.

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