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WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, What?
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Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W
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Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W
Originally posted by Chuck Schwartz View PostThat's quite the conspiracy theory. Nowhere near accurate, but quite the conspiracy regardless.Last edited by solovsfett; 12-18-2012, 10:57 PM.
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Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W
Originally posted by solovsfett View Postquick thoughts:
I think Eaves has brought in more than his fair share of guys that can't skate including "mr hitch in his get-up, Matt Ford", Gorowsky and many many others, Mitchell, Mersch etc. That indicates a willingness to overlook that component. however I think that's dangerous (regardless of how well he thinks he can coach and condition kids)
Skating is the most important aspect of the game obviously, I look at CC, DU, MN, BC, Michigan, they don't have many clunkers out there and even their big guys can skate, so I don't really know why Eaves chooses to go after guys -more often than any other coach it seems- that are terrible or average skaters. I honestly think it's because he can control these types of players moreso than the hotshots AND he thinks he can coach and condition them up. it's also (for now) my reasoning behind why he prefers a team or 3rd liners, control. much easier to convince the Little-Dahl-Little's of the world to buy into the D-zone responsibility than
it would be the Rau's of the world
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Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W
Originally posted by Timothy A View PostA good discussion on the skating thing. I just have to think that yes there are physical limitations as to skating ability, but these guys are way above average athletes (probably an understatement), so you'd think they'd have the ability to improve their skating to a certain level. History does tell us some can, but some just can't. As markwojo said about the scout who said skating is 1 and 1a in evaluation, how can a guy like Eaves bring in a guy who just doesn't have that ncaa ability to skate? It sure seems like you can't bank on it improving enough to be able to utilize their other hockey skills. I guess I'd stay away from guys like that.
I think Eaves has brought in more than his fair share of guys that can't skate including "mr hitch in his get-up, Matt Ford", Gorowsky and many many others, Mitchell, Mersch etc. That indicates a willingness to overlook that component. however I think that's dangerous (regardless of how well he thinks he can coach and condition kids)
Skating is the most important aspect of the game obviously, I look at CC, DU, MN, BC, Michigan, they don't have many clunkers out there and even their big guys can skate, so I don't really know why Eaves chooses to go after guys -more often than any other coach it seems- that are terrible or average skaters. I honestly think it's because he can control these types of players moreso than the hotshots AND he thinks he can coach and condition them up. it's also (for now) my reasoning behind why he prefers a team or 3rd liners, control. much easier to convince the Little-Dahl-Little's of the world to buy into the D-zone responsibility than
it would be the Rau's of the world
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Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W
A good discussion on the skating thing. I just have to think that yes there are physical limitations as to skating ability, but these guys are way above average athletes (probably an understatement), so you'd think they'd have the ability to improve their skating to a certain level. History does tell us some can, but some just can't. As markwojo said about the scout who said skating is 1 and 1a in evaluation, how can a guy like Eaves bring in a guy who just doesn't have that ncaa ability to skate? It sure seems like you can't bank on it improving enough to be able to utilize their other hockey skills. I guess I'd stay away from guys like that.
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Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W
I should note that you can get away with not being a great skater, but you need to be exceptional in other areas including anticipation and hockey sense. Joe Pavelski is not a good skater, it's the reason he wasn't drafted until the 7th round and spent an extra year in the USHL. But Pavelski is one of the most intelligent players ever to play at the UW and is off the charts in a number of different areas obviously.
Michael Mersch couldn't skate a lick coming into UW and was left off the U.S. U18 team for the world championships. At UW he's really worked on it with the coaches and it's noticeable this season how much better he is on his feet. It's obviously shown up in the goal department as well. He's still got a ways to go to turn himself into an NHL type guy, but the improvement in this area makes me feel like it's possible down the road with his offensive skill set.
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Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W
Originally posted by Timothy A View PostWhen a coach scouts a recruit, they can see how good their skating is. They can either pass on them because it sucks or know how to make them a better skater. There are all sorts of skating experts out there. Anyone who has played youth hockey or have had their kids play youth hockey has had the opportunity to have their kids work with an expert. Certainly there are exprts at the collegiate level and higher who can be brought in to help someone become a better skater. It's not easy to break old bad habits, but it is possible. I agree skating can be a factor in development, but I don't think it's a complete dead end.
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Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W
Originally posted by Timothy A View PostWhen a coach scouts a recruit, they can see how good their skating is. They can either pass on them because it sucks or know how to make them a better skater. There are all sorts of skating experts out there. Anyone who has played youth hockey or have had their kids play youth hockey has had the opportunity to have their kids work with an expert. Certainly there are exprts at the collegiate level and higher who can be brought in to help someone become a better skater. It's not easy to break old bad habits, but it is possible. I agree skating can be a factor in development, but I don't think it's a complete dead end.
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Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W
Originally posted by Almington View PostIn my experence, the players that produced in the USHL (or any of the Canadian Junior Leagues) and don't produce in the WCHA are generally held back by their skating ability (and in hindsight it becomes clear that they often had their numbers in juniors inflated who their linemates were and the system that the team were running particularly on the PP) because skating ability is what allows you to generate good chances 5-on-5.
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Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W
I was trying to think of all the early departures we've seen under Eaves (since the 2002 off-season), and I decided to try to make a definitive list. Let me know what I'm missing or have incorrect:
Early Departure (signed pro contract)
Jason Clark
Robbie Earl
Jake Gardiner
Cody Goloubef
Jamie McBain
Ryan McDonagh
Jordy Murray
Joe Pavelski
Joe Piskula
Justin Schultz
Jack Skille
Brendan Smith
Craig Smith
Derek Stepan
Ryan Suter
Kyle Turris
Transferred to Another Program
Ken Rowe
Tom Sawatske
Matt Thurber
Left for Major Junior
Matt Auffrey
Alex Leavitt
Nigel Williams
Left Hockey in General/Went Down to USHL/CIS/D-III
Tom Bardis
Zach Bearson
Joe Campbell
Patrick Daly
John Funk
Mark Heatley
Jake Heisler
Chris Hickey
Chris Julka
Tyler Lapic
Joey McElroy
Joe Simon
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Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W
How is Rumpel doing?
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Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W
Originally posted by Almington View PostIn my experence, the players that produced in the USHL (or any of the Canadian Junior Leagues) and don't produce in the WCHA are generally held back by their skating ability (and in hindsight it becomes clear that they often had their numbers in juniors inflated who their linemates were and the system that the team were running particularly on the PP) because skating ability is what allows you to generate good chances 5-on-5.
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Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W
Originally posted by Chuck Schwartz View PostMaybe they're just not good enough players. The level of the USHL compared to the WCHA is night and day. Kids can get away with stuff in the USHL that they obviously can't at this level. Tom Gorowsky couldn't skate a lick. It didn't matter in Minnesota high school hockey on the best team in the state when he put up a zillion points or even when he did well in the USHL. That flaw was exposed in the WCHA and he couldn't keep up. Finally, when he was a savvy senior he was able to produce.
Every case needs to be taken on an individual basis. I hate blanket statements on players.
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Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W
Originally posted by Timothy A View PostMy point was that these guys had tons of potential, to end up like Pavs or Stepan, and none of them got better in their 4 yrs @ UW. If you are a higher end scorer in the level below and don't double your point average from your fr to sr years (if you stay that long), something is wrong.
Every case needs to be taken on an individual basis. I hate blanket statements on players.
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Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W
Originally posted by bucky15 View PostI can't agree more. Take a look at Andy Bohmbach's numbers, this is someone who was a late pick up that ended up playing some games in the AHL after UW. I think people are missing the point that Eaves has recruited too much of one type of player 3/4 years ago and it is showing on the ice at the moment with the grind style of play. It is unrealistic to have every forward recruited to put up over 60 points in his career. I also think players like Barnes/LeBate/Woods/Navin need to step up and fill these secondary scoring voids in the current team.
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