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WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, What?

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  • JDUBBS1280
    replied
    Originally posted by J.D. View Post
    I guess the point I'm making is you can recruit three and four year players who still go on to the NHL.

    That's the balance any program should look for.
    You can, but it is becoming increasingly difficult to do. Especially if you recruit guys that come in nearly ready to step into the NHL. The Bjugstads and Kreiders who stick around 3 years when they could have made the leap after 2 is rare nowdays.

    Not at all saying programs shouldn't recruit blue chip prospects. But the main goal is to win NCAA games. Which is why I think programs need more kids who have elite skill, but less than prototypical NHL size. They take a little longer to get ready for NHL play. And if some don't make it to the NHL, as long as they help you win at this level is all that really should matter to fans.

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  • J.D.
    replied
    Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

    Oh I dont disagree with that, I was referring to jdubbs stance on BC. they've been able to produce as many nhlers as any other program even with the majority of those players staying three years.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chuck Schwartz
    replied
    Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

    Originally posted by J.D. View Post
    I guess the point I'm making is you can recruit three and four year players who still go on to the NHL.

    That's the balance any program should look for.
    That's the balance that every program looks for. Unfortunately you get hamstrung once in a while by circumstance. Losing guys like Justin Schultz after three years is expected, and you can live with that. However, losing guys like Stepan and Craig Smith after two years, especially with how late they left in the summer is an absolute back-breaker.

    This is a topic we've discussed multiple times.

    Leave a comment:


  • J.D.
    replied
    Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

    I guess the point I'm making is you can recruit three and four year players who still go on to the NHL.

    That's the balance any program should look for.

    Leave a comment:


  • ExileOnDaytonStreet
    replied
    Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

    Originally posted by Almington View Post
    Eaves has had 1 one-and-done while he has been at UW.
    Minor fact check on this one, since more than one has pointed it out:

    Eaves has had two. Ryan Suter and Kyle Turris.

    Leave a comment:


  • JDUBBS1280
    replied
    Originally posted by J.D. View Post
    You're right that BC doesn't have many one year players, but I think you're overstating the # of one and dones from the top teams around the country. Looks like UW has only had one under Eaves.

    As for the number of NHLers:

    http://www.uscho.com/2012/04/10/ncaa...-11-12-season/

    And I believe that 21 was before Kreider suited up for the Rangers in the playoffs. So, call it 22...tied for 2nd with Wisconsin and only one behind Michigan.
    I just listed 4 that Minnesota had in a few year span. And I know I'm missing at least a few more. Count 2-and-dones and it increases even more.

    Not a shot at BC at all. Don Lucia has praised York publicly for recruiting guys who don't bolt after 1-2 years many times.

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  • J.D.
    replied
    Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

    Originally posted by JDUBBS1280 View Post
    Not as high as other programs though. I don't recall too many one-and-done guys recently at BC either.
    You're right that BC doesn't have many one year players, but I think you're overstating the # of one and dones from the top teams around the country. Looks like UW has only had one under Eaves.

    As for the number of NHLers:

    http://www.uscho.com/2012/04/10/ncaa...-11-12-season/

    And I believe that 21 was before Kreider suited up for the Rangers in the playoffs. So, call it 22...tied for 2nd with Wisconsin and only one behind Michigan.

    Leave a comment:


  • Almington
    replied
    Originally posted by JDUBBS1280 View Post
    Not as high as other programs though. I don't recall too many one-and-done guys recently at BC either.
    Eaves has had 1 one-and-done while he has been at UW. For the most part, players who have left UW early for the NHL have stepped into regular spots on NHL rosters. If anything, it appears that Eaves tries to recruit replacements as opposed to promoting existing players on the roster. The great college coaches understand the value in developing young forwards into top 6 forwards as upperclassmen, Eaves tends to "slot" players as recruits/freshmen and they stay in those predefined slots until they leave UW. At least that is the impression that I have developed over the last decade of watching Eaves lead the program.

    Leave a comment:


  • JDUBBS1280
    replied
    Originally posted by J.D. View Post
    I don't have the exact figures, but the number of BC players in the NHL from the York era is actually pretty high--higher than most would think. Might be at an all time high in regard to the history of BC hockey.
    Not as high as other programs though. I don't recall too many one-and-done guys recently at BC either.

    Leave a comment:


  • J.D.
    replied
    Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

    I don't have the exact figures, but the number of BC players in the NHL from the York era is actually pretty high--higher than most would think. Might be at an all time high in regard to the history of BC hockey.

    Leave a comment:


  • JDUBBS1280
    replied
    Originally posted by Chuck Schwartz View Post
    That's another topic entirely from what I was talking about, but I don't disagree with your point that Eaves goal first and foremost is to put together a lineup that produces wins at this level. But as John Calipari said, one of the best days in Kentucky basketball was when he had 5 guys go in the first round. Kids want to play for coaches that put players in the NHL, and Eaves track record in that department is second to none. So, I don't think it should be overlooked, but the goal is, and always will be to bring national championships to the University of Wisconsin first. I don't think Eaves has lost sight of that, yet. That said, I do think he's focused on bringing in more four year players.
    I get all that. But how many NHL players has Jerry York "produced" in the past 10 years compared to Mike Eaves? And who has been more successful in the NCAA the past 10 years?

    And I highlighted "produced" because I think a majority of the high-end talent that comes thru college hockey will succeed in the NHL regardless of who coaches them.

    As nice as it is to see guys like Kyle Okposo, Phil Kessel, Erik Johnson, Nick Leddy, etc... doing well in the NHL, losing them after only a year (little more for Okposo) really hurt because it forced tDon to bring in guys before they were ready. Sound familiar?

    I'll take Jerry York's approach any day.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chuck Schwartz
    replied
    Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

    Originally posted by JDUBBS1280 View Post
    Mankato currently has two draft picks on their roster. A second and a third rounder. So, must be a really good year then.

    Who cares about how many draft picks you have. The same Mankato team and their two draft picks just swept you and your eight draft picks at home.

    I see the point you're trying to make, but I think you're missing the big picture. Yes, Eaves probably wouldn't be recruiting guys that are likely to draft high if he wanted to "control" his players. But should he really be recruiting so many guys that are likely to get drafted high in the first place?

    This isn't the 70's, 80's, or even 90's. Post 2005 those guys aren't hanging around as long and the teams with less high draft picks and older rosters seem to be doing better.

    Being an "NHL Pipeline" is a nice consolation prize, but I'd rather produce less NHL talent and win more NCAA games.
    That's another topic entirely from what I was talking about, but I don't disagree with your point that Eaves goal first and foremost is to put together a lineup that produces wins at this level. But as John Calipari said, one of the best days in Kentucky basketball was when he had 5 guys go in the first round. Kids want to play for coaches that put players in the NHL, and Eaves track record in that department is second to none. So, I don't think it should be overlooked, but the goal is, and always will be to bring national championships to the University of Wisconsin first. I don't think Eaves has lost sight of that, yet. That said, I do think he's focused on bringing in more four year players.

    Leave a comment:


  • Timothy A
    replied
    Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

    Originally posted by JDUBBS1280 View Post
    Being an "NHL Pipeline" is a nice consolation prize, but I'd rather produce less NHL talent and win more NCAA games.
    Winner winner chicken dinner.

    The perception I get of Eaves is he's like that teacher you hated while you were in high school, (who pushed you constantly and was hard on you), but once you were in college or working, when you look back you see that that teacher was the best you had.

    Leave a comment:


  • JDUBBS1280
    replied
    Originally posted by Chuck Schwartz View Post
    That's just not true. Davies, Turris, Gagner, Zulinick, Besse hell even Brendan Smith/Gardiner/Schultz even though they are d-men were offense first, and very weak in their own end to start. To say that Eaves is recruiting bad players because he can control them is the craziest thing I've heard in a while. If he was such an ultimate control freak he wouldn't recruit players that are going to be draft picks alone, let alone first/second/third round guys which he's had a million of since he's been at UW. He'd recruit like Mankato with one draft pick on a good year.
    Mankato currently has two draft picks on their roster. A second and a third rounder. So, must be a really good year then.

    Who cares about how many draft picks you have. The same Mankato team and their two draft picks just swept you and your eight draft picks at home.

    I see the point you're trying to make, but I think you're missing the big picture. Yes, Eaves probably wouldn't be recruiting guys that are likely to draft high if he wanted to "control" his players. But should he really be recruiting so many guys that are likely to get drafted high in the first place?

    This isn't the 70's, 80's, or even 90's. Post 2005 those guys aren't hanging around as long and the teams with less high draft picks and older rosters seem to be doing better.

    Being an "NHL Pipeline" is a nice consolation prize, but I'd rather produce less NHL talent and win more NCAA games.

    Leave a comment:


  • markwojo
    replied
    Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

    It is starting to become apparent that the frustration over results in the program are starting to wharp some perceptions...both here in cyber messageboard world and in the Kohl Center by virtue of an overabundance of empty seats. Things need to change perceptions fairly quickly.

    Leave a comment:

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