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  • Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Season Thread

    "UNH Regains Edge - Downs UMass 4-0"
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    • Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Season Thread

      Pros and cons of the "choke" argument ... something that's been in and out of vogue over the history of the USCHO boards for sure, but something that seems to be out there less in recent times. First, I agree 100% that in order to "choke", you have to have significant talent that somehow underperforms when it counts. There have been several UNH instances mentioned in the last page or so of this thread, and to that I'd probably add the infamous NCAA loss to Niagara circa 2000, and even the latter stages of the NCAA Finals in 2003 against Minnesota (I'll forever remember goalie Mike Ayers screaming from halfway out of his goal at a listless and dispirited UNH bench during a break in the 3rd period as the Gophers broke open a 1-1 game). BU last season? Hate to admit it, but yeah, that one too.

      Others on the list I'm not sure I'd agree ... losing to a loaded Michigan squad in the Frozen Four semis in 1998 may have been seat-squirming, but that was a very good team with lots of big-game experience, and it was really just the beginning of UNH's best-ever run (4 Frozen Fours in 6 seasons 1998-2003). 1999 Finals - no way, tough game and tough OT loss, but not a "choke" (and I'll always believe if Derek Bekar stays in school with Krog just that one more year, they win it all). e.cat and I met for the first time in St. Paul after the Frozen Four semis choke-a-rama in 2002 against UMaine. And so on and so on.

      This year, as I've said increasingly often as this season has played out, I think UNH is overachieving in a big way, and probably benefitting from some other programs' struggles (see BC recently, and to a lesser extent BU) to be unexpectedly in the mix this late into the season. There really have not been realistic expectations for hardware of any kind going into this season, so this year I think UNH has no real "pressure" to perform, and that almost insulates them from the poisonous "choke" tag ... unless of course they gack up a home QF series against UVM or UMaine/UMA, or blow another late 3 goal lead in either of the tourneys.

      I thought last night's performance was very encouraging. The comments from some of the players to the media afterwards seem to reflect a determined and focused, no BS mindset to just go out there and get things done. Talk is cheap of course, and actions speak louder than words, but the actions out there last night were pretty convincing. DeSmith is looking sharp, steady and very reliable again. The flame of hope was flickering just a little brighter on the WIS Estate last evening. Let's hope it continues to go in the same positive direction from here on out. But regardless, it's been a fun and positive season for UNH Hockey.
      Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
      Montreal Expos Forever ...

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      • Originally posted by C-H-C View Post
        Trying to find if anyone was able to watch game on fcs....couldnt find channel wasnt on 608,623,626....watched night before, maybe was a good thing always lose when i do watch in tv....

        Comment


        • Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Season Thread

          Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post
          Pros and cons of the "choke" argument ... something that's been in and out of vogue over the history of the USCHO boards for sure, but something that seems to be out there less in recent times. First, I agree 100% that in order to "choke", you have to have significant talent that somehow underperforms when it counts. There have been several UNH instances mentioned in the last page or so of this thread, and to that I'd probably add the infamous NCAA loss to Niagara circa 2000, and even the latter stages of the NCAA Finals in 2003 against Minnesota (I'll forever remember goalie Mike Ayers screaming from halfway out of his goal at a listless and dispirited UNH bench during a break in the 3rd period as the Gophers broke open a 1-1 game). BU last season? Hate to admit it, but yeah, that one too.

          Others on the list I'm not sure I'd agree ... losing to a loaded Michigan squad in the Frozen Four semis in 1998 may have been seat-squirming, but that was a very good team with lots of big-game experience, and it was really just the beginning of UNH's best-ever run (4 Frozen Fours in 6 seasons 1998-2003). 1999 Finals - no way, tough game and tough OT loss, but not a "choke" (and I'll always believe if Derek Bekar stays in school with Krog just that one more year, they win it all). e.cat and I met for the first time in St. Paul after the Frozen Four semis choke-a-rama in 2002 against UMaine. And so on and so on.

          This year, as I've said increasingly often as this season has played out, I think UNH is overachieving in a big way, and probably benefitting from some other programs' struggles (see BC recently, and to a lesser extent BU) to be unexpectedly in the mix this late into the season. There really have not been realistic expectations for hardware of any kind going into this season, so this year I think UNH has no real "pressure" to perform, and that almost insulates them from the poisonous "choke" tag ... unless of course they gack up a home QF series against UVM or UMaine/UMA, or blow another late 3 goal lead in either of the tourneys.

          I thought last night's performance was very encouraging. The comments from some of the players to the media afterwards seem to reflect a determined and focused, no BS mindset to just go out there and get things done. Talk is cheap of course, and actions speak louder than words, but the actions out there last night were pretty convincing. DeSmith is looking sharp, steady and very reliable again. The flame of hope was flickering just a little brighter on the WIS Estate last evening. Let's hope it continues to go in the same positive direction from here on out. But regardless, it's been a fun and positive season for UNH Hockey.
          Great post, Chuck. And, I agree with you about "chokes" entirely, EXCEPT for the 2003 Finals loss to the Gophers. I do not think that UNH really had a chance in that game, after playing their hearts out to beat Cornell and a great goalie in Dave LeNeveu 3-2 two days earlier, without their leading scorer and emotional leader Lanny Gare, lost to a separated shoulder in the regionals. I did not like Umile's strategy to play one of his forwards back for over 50 minutes of the game whenever Vanek's line was on the ice, although I admit that for 48 of those minutes the strategy worked. But, Vanek (WCHA Rookie of the Year, only non-Minnesotan on the team, and a decade later arguably one of the 10 best at creating his own offiense in the NHL) would not be denied with his goal and assist within about 3 minutes near the middle of the third. Tallackson's two goals were fairly meaningless later in the third as UNH gave up their defensive strategy in an attempt to get back into the game. No way that this game was choke in my book, either by the team or by Umile.

          The UNH teams in the late 90s and early 2000s were loaded with talent, unlike any UNH teams that we have seen since. I say that UNH teams almost always have overachieved since 2003, especially this year's edition of the Wildcats. And, oops, if the regular season and conference tournaments were over today, UNH would be playing Niagara in the Manchvegas regionals, and until this past weekend Niagara has been awesome this season.

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          • Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Season Thread

            Originally posted by unh1982 View Post
            Trying to find if anyone was able to watch game on fcs....couldnt find channel wasnt on 608,623,626....watched night before, maybe was a good thing always lose when i do watch in tv....
            I was at the game, so not sure. However I figured it was on FCS, since the recorded video of the game (via unhwildcats.tv) had the distinct FCS format??? Is there a possibility that it could have been "blacked out" in your region?

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            • Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Season Thread

              Originally posted by unh1982 View Post
              Trying to find if anyone was able to watch game on fcs....couldnt find channel wasnt on 608,623,626....watched night before, maybe was a good thing always lose when i do watch in tv....
              Yes - I watched the game on FCS here in DC/NOVA. Great to see the team from the first half - lots of jump in the team's step last night and defensemen selling out to block shots in the last minute of the game to preserve the shut-out. I'd agree with most that the team overachieved in the first half and to date this season. They have to put out max-effort to reach their potential and they did last night. As long as that continues, I'll be satisfied...
              Live Free or Die!!
              Miami University '03

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              • Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post
                Pros and cons of the "choke" argument ... something that's been in and out of vogue over the history of the USCHO boards for sure, but something that seems to be out there less in recent times. First, I agree 100% that in order to "choke", you have to have significant talent that somehow underperforms when it counts. There have been several UNH instances mentioned in the last page or so of this thread, and to that I'd probably add the infamous NCAA loss to Niagara circa 2000, and even the latter stages of the NCAA Finals in 2003 against Minnesota (I'll forever remember goalie Mike Ayers screaming from halfway out of his goal at a listless and dispirited UNH bench during a break in the 3rd period as the Gophers broke open a 1-1 game). BU last season? Hate to admit it, but yeah, that one too.
                Per Buffalo, as pointed out (and often forgotten) we were without leading scorer Lanny Gare, as the lowest ranked of the four to make it (IIRC) I thought we did well to beat a very strong Cornell team to get to that point.
                Last edited by ClOuD 9; 03-03-2013, 02:35 PM.
                "...On To Victory, Forever Blue & White..."
                Men's Hockey

                ECAC Regular Season: 1 • ECAC Tournament: 1 • Hockey East Regular Season: 8 • Hockey East Tournament: 2
                NCAA Appearances: 22 • Frozen Fours: 7 • 1999 & 2003 NCAA Runner Up

                Women's Hockey
                EAIAW Champions: 4 • ECAC Regular Season: 3 • ECAC Tournament: 5 • Hockey East Regular Season: 6 • Hockey East Tournament: 4
                AWCHA Final Fours: 2 • NCAA Appearances: 5 • Frozen Fours: 2 • 1999 Runner Up
                1998 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS

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                • Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Season Thread

                  Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post
                  Pros and cons of the "choke" argument ... something that's been in and out of vogue over the history of the USCHO boards for sure, but something that seems to be out there less in recent times. First, I agree 100% that in order to "choke", you have to have significant talent that somehow underperforms when it counts. There have been several UNH instances mentioned in the last page or so of this thread, and to that I'd probably add the infamous NCAA loss to Niagara circa 2000, and even the latter stages of the NCAA Finals in 2003 against Minnesota (I'll forever remember goalie Mike Ayers screaming from halfway out of his goal at a listless and dispirited UNH bench during a break in the 3rd period as the Gophers broke open a 1-1 game). BU last season? Hate to admit it, but yeah, that one too.

                  Others on the list I'm not sure I'd agree ... losing to a loaded Michigan squad in the Frozen Four semis in 1998 may have been seat-squirming, but that was a very good team with lots of big-game experience, and it was really just the beginning of UNH's best-ever run (4 Frozen Fours in 6 seasons 1998-2003). 1999 Finals - no way, tough game and tough OT loss, but not a "choke" (and I'll always believe if Derek Bekar stays in school with Krog just that one more year, they win it all). e.cat and I met for the first time in St. Paul after the Frozen Four semis choke-a-rama in 2002 against UMaine. And so on and so on.

                  This year, as I've said increasingly often as this season has played out, I think UNH is overachieving in a big way, and probably benefitting from some other programs' struggles (see BC recently, and to a lesser extent BU) to be unexpectedly in the mix this late into the season. There really have not been realistic expectations for hardware of any kind going into this season, so this year I think UNH has no real "pressure" to perform, and that almost insulates them from the poisonous "choke" tag ... unless of course they gack up a home QF series against UVM or UMaine/UMA, or blow another late 3 goal lead in either of the tourneys.

                  I thought last night's performance was very encouraging. The comments from some of the players to the media afterwards seem to reflect a determined and focused, no BS mindset to just go out there and get things done. Talk is cheap of course, and actions speak louder than words, but the actions out there last night were pretty convincing. DeSmith is looking sharp, steady and very reliable again. The flame of hope was flickering just a little brighter on the WIS Estate last evening. Let's hope it continues to go in the same positive direction from here on out. But regardless, it's been a fun and positive season for UNH Hockey.
                  Chuck, there are disappointments and then there are chokes. Losing in the FF to me is disappointing. Getting there is hard enough, so any victories once you get there are okay with me. Even regional losses in the mid-90's (Denver, CC) and the mid-oughts (Michigan, Michigan State, Miami) I'd have to classify as disappointments not chokes. Just not happy with how a team can perform at a high level throughout the season then just mail it in come post-season. In recent memory the team that galls me the most is the one in 2008. Four All-Americans on that team, Regan in goal, and they just were not ready to play vs. Notre Dame. Of course, they did cough it up to BC in the HE finals, so I guess you could call that a choke.

                  As for this team, after last year I had absolutely no expectations that they could play .500 hockey, let alone win the league. My take is that UNH has played better than expected, but teams like BC and BU did not perform up to their expectations. Somebody said that there are several great teams in the league. I'd have to disagree. A lot of teams have outstanding parts, but none of these teams will remind you of the Hockey East teams that played 10-15 years ago. Still exciting, just not at as high a level.

                  I have some hope for this team because defense has been their hallmark most of the year and defense is, as they say, whats wins championships. I just hope they have enough offense to go with it. We'll see.

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                  • Originally posted by UNHhockey29 View Post
                    Come on Rob, why would you want your fans to sit together in a group. If we spread out we'll cover more ground. Right. Right? Wait...
                    During the Notre Dame game the TV broadcasters referred to the Verizon Wireless as a "morgue", this does not reflect positively on the school or it's hosting of the regional imo.
                    "...On To Victory, Forever Blue & White..."
                    Men's Hockey

                    ECAC Regular Season: 1 • ECAC Tournament: 1 • Hockey East Regular Season: 8 • Hockey East Tournament: 2
                    NCAA Appearances: 22 • Frozen Fours: 7 • 1999 & 2003 NCAA Runner Up

                    Women's Hockey
                    EAIAW Champions: 4 • ECAC Regular Season: 3 • ECAC Tournament: 5 • Hockey East Regular Season: 6 • Hockey East Tournament: 4
                    AWCHA Final Fours: 2 • NCAA Appearances: 5 • Frozen Fours: 2 • 1999 Runner Up
                    1998 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS

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                    • Originally posted by New Hampshire 'Cats Fan View Post
                      I was at the game, so not sure. However I figured it was on FCS, since the recorded video of the game (via unhwildcats.tv) had the distinct FCS format??? Is there a possibility that it could have been "blacked out" in your region?
                      Live in RI..called up direct tv. They couldn't find it..was ****ed.

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                      • Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Season Thread

                        Originally posted by unh1982 View Post
                        Live in RI..called up direct tv. They couldn't find it..was ****ed.
                        I just talked to my folks who live in Ohio and have directv. They could see the Friday game, but not the Saturday game on FCS (same problem you had). That's a bummer to hear.

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                        • Originally posted by unh1982 View Post
                          Live in RI..called up direct tv. They couldn't find it..was ****ed.
                          I watched it on WBIN (a local NH station that has been carrying a lot of UNH games, as well as some Merrimack games.)
                          We are usually convinced more easily by reasons we have found ourselves than by those which have occurred to others.
                          ---Blaise Pascal

                          When two opposite points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie exactly halfway between them. It is possible for one side to be simply wrong.
                          --Richard Dawkins

                          UNH Wildcats: Winners, 20XX NCAA Men's Hockey National Championship

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                          • Originally posted by New Hampshire 'Cats Fan View Post
                            I just talked to my folks who live in Ohio and have directv. They could see the Friday game, but not the Saturday game on FCS (same problem you had). That's a bummer to hear.
                            Thx

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                            • Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Season Thread

                              Originally posted by Greg Ambrose View Post
                              ... In recent memory the team that galls me the most is the one in 2008. Four All-Americans on that team, Regan in goal, and they just were not ready to play vs. Notre Dame. Of course, they did cough it up to BC in the HE finals, so I guess you could call that a choke...
                              Agree completely. This was the team that irked me the most. Not to say that they had more talent than '98, '99, '02 or '03, they didn't. But across the seasons the overall college talent isn't always the same. In 2007-2008 UNH was as good as anyone in the country and demonstrated it on multiple occasions. This was the only team since the start of HE that swept BU, BC and ME in the same year. And, they had BC, the eventual champion of HE and NCAA down and out at 4-0 halfway through the HE semi ... just a total collapse for the next 30 minutes (before gamely holding on into triple overtime) followed by a no-show in the first round the following week. I still feel like if that team had the grit the following year's squad showed in Manchester, we fans would finally have had the title we crave.

                              Back to the present...
                              Whenever I think of the past, it brings back so many memories. - Stephen Wright

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                              • Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Season Thread

                                Originally posted by Snively65 View Post
                                Great post, Chuck. And, I agree with you about "chokes" entirely, EXCEPT for the 2003 Finals loss to the Gophers. I do not think that UNH really had a chance in that game, after playing their hearts out to beat Cornell and a great goalie in Dave LeNeveu 3-2 two days earlier, without their leading scorer and emotional leader Lanny Gare, lost to a separated shoulder in the regionals. I did not like Umile's strategy to play one of his forwards back for over 50 minutes of the game whenever Vanek's line was on the ice, although I admit that for 48 of those minutes the strategy worked. But, Vanek (WCHA Rookie of the Year, only non-Minnesotan on the team, and a decade later arguably one of the 10 best at creating his own offiense in the NHL) would not be denied with his goal and assist within about 3 minutes near the middle of the third. Tallackson's two goals were fairly meaningless later in the third as UNH gave up their defensive strategy in an attempt to get back into the game. No way that this game was choke in my book, either by the team or by Umile.
                                Good points for sure ... but although Gare was a very good player, that was a very deep and very experienced UNH squad that had just won the second of their back-to-back HE Tourneys. I don't recall anyone thinking at the time that Gare's injury - although not helpful of course - was something that would cripple UNH's chances. Maybe they were unlucky to have to face an equally-experienced defending national champ on that evening? Maybe if they hadn't blinked the prior year against UMaine in the semis in St. Paul, they would have faced the Gophers a year earlier, and they would have known better what to expect (save freshman Vanek of course) in Buffalo? Obviously, we'll never know. I do recall being pretty pumped that they got past Cornell in the semis, although I also recall some last-minute scrambling to hold off the Big Red. In retrospect, we now know Cornell (like UNH) did not possess any transcendent talent like Vanek; their most talented player was a frosh forward named Matt Moulson who was hardly remarkable at that early stage of his career. My lingering recollection of the Buffalo final was a team spending most of the game "playing not to lose", and I suspect that colors my analysis of whether that was a "choke" or not.

                                Originally posted by Snively65 View Post
                                The UNH teams in the late 90s and early 2000s were loaded with talent, unlike any UNH teams that we have seen since. I say that UNH teams almost always have overachieved since 2003, especially this year's edition of the Wildcats. And, oops, if the regular season and conference tournaments were over today, UNH would be playing Niagara in the Manchvegas regionals, and until this past weekend Niagara has been awesome this season.
                                Totally agree, Snively. As to the potential of a "rematch" with Niagara later this month, I say "bring it on". We have an old score to settle there.

                                UMass-Lowell totally dominating the 'Mack after two periods now. Looks like we've all become temporary Providence fans for a week ...
                                Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
                                Montreal Expos Forever ...

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