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Irish hockey '12-'13: Why would you not wanna go there?

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  • Re: Irish hockey '12-'13: Why would you not wanna go there?

    Originally posted by Irish83 View Post
    The last time 2 goals on a major? How about MSU a few weeks back!!
    It was actually Alaska 2 weeks ago.Hopefully they don't give up 4 on the next one,but who knows. Tonight is a must win. Go Irish!

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    • Re: Irish hockey '12-'13: Why would you not wanna go there?

      Originally posted by WeAreNDHockey View Post
      Actually that was the Saturday game against Alaska 2 weekends ago.
      Thanks for the correction

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      • Re: Irish hockey '12-'13: Why would you not wanna go there?

        We're not out of anything...

        First of all if you look at the standings, worst case scenerio, I think we still finish in the top four (assuming there is not a complete collapse). That would position us nicely for the playoffs. It'll be disappointing that we blew a nice lead going into the break, but it's not the end of the world.

        People need to calm down, stop looking for reasons to be hysterical.

        Second, given that we are in third place (behind by 2 games) you'll notice that the top two teams (Western Michigan and Miami) are playing against each other next weekend. That'll mean the attrition there will keep us within striking distance going into the following two weekends where we play, Miami and Western Michigan. These teams also play Ohio State, who is in fourth place, after they play us. The key word here: attrition. The teams behind us are two games or more back (except Ferris which is one game back) and they all have two games on hand. We are FAR MORE LIKELY to finish in first than we are in tenth, a top four spot being the most likely outcome. A good run here by us could put us back in first place altogether.

        This probably makes Michigan a must-win series for us. If we sweep them our destiny will still very much be in our hands.

        So maybe I'm just a glass half full kind of person, but that's how I see it. We are still very much in this race for the CCHA championship and we can still win it. Cry if you want, give up, but i'm still very much hoping for the best.

        Finally, i'm actually liking the decision that Jackson made of going with Johnson. I think Summerhays is the better, more athletic goalie, but he definitely has mental blocks that affect his overall performance. This is something he has to overcome. Although I like Summerhays better overall, I would just ride Johnson until he loses. He's not as talented, but is more mature IMO. He is less prone to mental lapses and maybe this will snap Summerhays out of whatever mental funk he's in just like it did last year.
        Last edited by NotreDameFan27; 02-02-2013, 11:55 PM.

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        • Re: Irish hockey '12-'13: Why would you not wanna go there?

          I haven't done the math extensively, but I believe 10th place, given the perfect storm, is still possible. I believe 11th is no longer possible. But 1st is also still possible, though I don't expect that. I know that Michigan and Michigan State cannot finish higher than 3rd. Just about anything else is possible with the others.

          As for tonight...I too agree about starting Johnson. Summerhays pooped his breezers enough that he needed to open the door on the bench tonight. But, what a crappy time to give up the first shortie of the season. So much for a victory and 3 points. Michigan is starting to improve (though they won't pull a rabbit out of the hat), so let's see if ND can complete a season sweep for the first time in...
          "Hockey is the only tribe I belong to." --Jack Falla

          "Why, as a matter of fact, I suggested starting a hockey program to Father Callahan, our president. He was downright interested until we came to the use of sticks, and then he threw up his hands. He said, 'No, that game is not for our University. Notre Dame will never endorse any game that puts a club in the hands of an Irishman.' " -- Knute Rockne: All American

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          • Re: Irish hockey '12-'13: Why would you not wanna go there?

            Originally posted by NotreDameFan27 View Post
            We're not out of anything...

            First of all if you look at the standings, worst case scenerio, I think we still finish in the top four (assuming there is not a complete collapse). That would position us nicely for the playoffs. It'll be disappointing that we blew a nice lead going into the break, but it's not the end of the world.

            People need to calm down, stop looking for reasons to be hysterical.
            I'm all for keeping an open mind and hoping for the best, but just what do you describe as a total collapse?

            We are 2-7-1 in our last ten games and only one of them was against a team that had a better record than we did at the time of the game (and then just ever so barely). No one who pays attention can call that 10 game stretch anything BUT a collapse. We went from 3rd in the PWR to 16th. We went from 1st in the CCHA with games in hand and room to spare to 3rd place while opening the door for everyone but MSU and NMU to have a chance at catching us. We had 17 straight power plays over 4 games without a goal. We gave up 5 power play goals on two major penalties, a collapse in fundamentals that would get some NHL coaches fired. We gave up 5 power play goals in 2 games to a team that had just 11 in the previous 26 games. We blew yet another game in large part to a stupid penalty. If anything this is an even more epic collapse than last season. The only thing we have over 2012 right now is that 2013 isn't over.

            We have 4 games against two teams who are clearly playing much better hockey than we are, and none of them are at home (not that that matters much lately). We have 4 games against two teams that are clearly playing much better hockey than when we defeated them earlier in the season. 2 or 3 wins in those 8 games probably won't get a first round bye without a lot of help and the attrition you are hopeful of. Nothing I've seen out of this team in weeks points to 6 or 7 wins. Sure, we might win all 8 of them. We probably won't lose all 8. The reality lies somewhere in between most likely.

            After the way the season started, and all their big talk of learning from last season, if this team fails to secure a first round bye AND home ice I call that a collapse and another failure by Jackson. Others are free to call it whatever they wish to through the shading of their rose colored glasses.

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            • Re: Irish hockey '12-'13: Why would you not wanna go there?

              Originally posted by Jeff_Jackson_for_Pres. View Post
              Michigan is starting to improve (though they won't pull a rabbit out of the hat), so let's see if ND can complete a season sweep for the first time in...
              6 years, 2006/07. 3-0-0. 1 there, 1 here, 1@JLA. Before that, 1972/73, 4-0-0. 2 here, 2 there. Came close to a season sweep in 1981/82. Won@JLA (GLI), win and tie there, win and win here (CCHA playoffs).

              Also won both as affiliate member of the WCHA in 1970/71.

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              • Re: Irish hockey '12-'13: Why would you not wanna go there?

                Originally posted by NotreDameFan27 View Post
                We're not out of anything...

                ... but it's not the end of the world....

                ...People need to calm down, stop looking for reasons to be hysterical...

                ...So maybe I'm just a glass half full kind of person, but that's how I see it... ...Cry if you want, give up, but i'm still very much hoping for the best...
                Attitudes like this are why teams like the Detroit Lions exist.

                What exactly are you seeing that leads you to believe anything will be just fine, let alone everything?

                Do we have an impenetrable penalty kill? Do we have an unstoppable power play? Are we constantly getting to the dirty areas in front of all these "great" goalies? Are we supporting the puck effectively to create opportunities? Do we control at least one area of the ice -- defensive, neutral or offensive -- with regularity? Does every player on the team know his role and perform it most or all of the time? Have we finally gone an entire weekend without a soul-crusing stupid penalty? Are you inside the locker room so you can assure me everyone is buying in and the team has not fractured along one fault line or another?

                Can you answer yes to any one of those questions? Can you point to any one thing that the coaches have done that has worked to create this optimism? Instead our only success so far in 2013 has been because we managed a 1-0 win over and one of the worst teams in the NCAA and the worst team in the CCHA, and we had a player who had gone 65 games without scoring finally net his first goal. On second thought, lets measure everyone for championship rings based on that. I'm sure things are turning around and we're about ready to go on a 16 game win streak...

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                • Re: Irish hockey '12-'13: Why would you not wanna go there?

                  I have to agree with IHF here. I have been a long time Laker Fan and have followed ND's thread because of the Jackson connection. You have a very tough road ahead with little room for error. Next up is Michigan, the best 8th place team in February I have ever seen, then a trip to Miami that just cooled off a hot Alaska team that swept you two weeks ago in SB. Then, Western Michigan who has not lost a CCHA game at home this season (although Miami is there this weekend).

                  Based on ND's play in the second half, I'm thinking anything over .500 the rest of the way would be pretty good. I'm not trolling here because I'm somewhat of a closet ND hockey fan because of the Jackson/LSSU connection. I think you have underperformed based on how you look on paper (not as badly as Michigan) and I am not sure why.
                  Last edited by MeridianStreet; 02-05-2013, 10:49 AM.

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                  • Re: Irish hockey '12-'13: Why would you not wanna go there?

                    Originally posted by JDUBBS1280 View Post
                    Herb Brooks
                    To say Herb Brooks allowed a lot of creativity on his teams is a little off. By all accounts he was pretty much as rigid as the way he was portrayed in the famous movie we've all probably seen. His system allowed for a little more movement and fluidity on the ice than most were accustomed to in the 1970s, but he still had his system. His players were chosen because they could excel in it, but if they strayed from it, they weren't going to play. And I'm willing to bet if that straying included a propensity for selfish play or stupid penalties, the offending players grabbed some bench.

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                    • Re: Irish hockey '12-'13: Why would you not wanna go there?

                      Originally posted by IrishHockeyFan View Post
                      Attitudes like this are why teams like the Detroit Lions exist.

                      What exactly are you seeing that leads you to believe anything will be just fine, let alone everything?

                      Do we have an impenetrable penalty kill? Do we have an unstoppable power play? Are we constantly getting to the dirty areas in front of all these "great" goalies? Are we supporting the puck effectively to create opportunities? Do we control at least one area of the ice -- defensive, neutral or offensive -- with regularity? Does every player on the team know his role and perform it most or all of the time? Have we finally gone an entire weekend without a soul-crusing stupid penalty? Are you inside the locker room so you can assure me everyone is buying in and the team has not fractured along one fault line or another?

                      Can you answer yes to any one of those questions? Can you point to any one thing that the coaches have done that has worked to create this optimism? Instead our only success so far in 2013 has been because we managed a 1-0 win over and one of the worst teams in the NCAA and the worst team in the CCHA, and we had a player who had gone 65 games without scoring finally net his first goal. On second thought, lets measure everyone for championship rings based on that. I'm sure things are turning around and we're about ready to go on a 16 game win streak...
                      What a stupid answer. WHat exactly do you have at stake here? Want to know what I have at stake? Nothing. I don't win any money if they win or lose. I don't lose a scholarship. I don't win or lose a job. I won't get court marshalled. I don't get deported. Nothing. I watch hockey because, wait for it, I like watching hockey. I follow Notre Dame because I like Notre Dame. It's that simple. Have they played poorly, yes. But i'm not going to start counting LOSSES THAT HAVEN'T HAPPENED. As long as there is a chance that the team can turn it around and remain competitive, and I provided the reasons why I feel that is so, i'm not going to waste my time writing the same idiotic thing over and over. I'm going to continue to cheer for my favorite teams and hope they win. I'm going to enjoy myself because, again, that is why I watch hockey.

                      BTW, Jeff Jackson isn't going to get fired. That's the way it is as well.
                      Last edited by NotreDameFan27; 02-04-2013, 04:58 AM.

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                      • Re: Irish hockey '12-'13: Why would you not wanna go there?

                        Originally posted by MeridianStreet View Post
                        I have to agree with IHF here. I have been a long time Laker Fan and have followed ND's thread because of the Jackson connection. You have a very tough road ahead with little room for error. Next up is Michigan, the best 8th place team in February I have ever seen, then a trip to Miami that just cooled off a hot Alaska team that swept you two weeks ago in SB. Then, Western Michigan who has not lost a CCHA game at home this season (although Miami is there this weekend).

                        Based on ND's play in the second half, I'm thinking anything over .500 the rest of the way would be pretty good. I'm not trolling here because I'm somewhat of a closet ND hockey fan because of the Jackson/LSSU connection. I think you have underperformed based on how you look on paper (not as bad as Michigan) and I am not sure why.
                        You're right, we should just quit and commit mass suicide.

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                        • Re: Irish hockey '12-'13: Why would you not wanna go there?

                          Not that I want to contribute to playground name-calling, but those last 2 posts are the definition of stupid. You act as if complaining about the team is equal to wanting them to flounder. I would be willing to bet my house that all of us will cheer for Notre Dame this weekend and want more than just about anything for this team to win, but we are also not going to award a ribbon to the team just for showing up. Are the rest of us gonna lose a job a scholarship or even sleep when this team plays poorly? No. But we have every right as fans to expect the best and decry the worst. That's why they keep score. So you like hockey. Good for you. Some of us not only love hockey, but love Notre Dame hockey. And when something we love falls far short of expectations, we get frustrated. Even mad. How come fans like you never post kudos to us when we praise this team?
                          "Hockey is the only tribe I belong to." --Jack Falla

                          "Why, as a matter of fact, I suggested starting a hockey program to Father Callahan, our president. He was downright interested until we came to the use of sticks, and then he threw up his hands. He said, 'No, that game is not for our University. Notre Dame will never endorse any game that puts a club in the hands of an Irishman.' " -- Knute Rockne: All American

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                          • Re: Irish hockey '12-'13: Why would you not wanna go there?

                            You're correct NotreDameFan27, those of us here have nothing at stake. Nothing to lose. Nothing to win. Not even points on a message board. Which is unfortunate, because with your improper syntax, responses that fail to answer questions (rhetorical or not) posed to you, and a complete failure to understand what you are even arguing about, the rest of us would be beating you.

                            MeridianStreet never suggested quitting. Just simply wondered how a coach he or she knew to be so successful at another institution would seem to struggle so much now. I didn't "answer" anything in my post quoting one of yours, although I did ask you some questions.

                            As for Jeff Jackson's potential firing, when has anyone brought that up as a realistic possibility or called for it? I know I haven't and while I am not going to re-read every post here, I don't recall anyone else calling for it either. Some -- like me -- have expressed disappointment with his moves. Does disappointment mean fire him now, or were you just answering a question nobody asked or responding to a comment nobody made?

                            It's too bad USCHO no longer archives threads that are more than a couple of years old. You could look at some of the things we wrote during earlier, successful campaigns. Lots of praise. Lots of celebratory posting. Lots of reflecting on what the team and coaches were doing. Good or bad, just like now. But now we're in the middle of a second monumental collapse in as many seasons, and a third disappointing season in 4. A collapse like we are seeing shouldn't happen once, let alone twice. Show me another team that was staring down virtually the rest of the NCAA on January 1st, and 3 months later was left off the guest list for the NCAA party. And we are well on our way to doing it two years in a row. Do some research and find me the last team that collapsed that badly.

                            I don't know why I'm having an internet argument with you. I should just put you on "ignore" like I do with the rest of the trolls. But as a fellow Notre Dame fan I want to have more respect for you than that. No one here isn't cheering for the team and we're all hoping for the best. We all hope we come out of this weekend against Michigan with 2 big wins and it starts us down a path to a great finish. That you equate complaining about poor play and poor coaching with quitting or not being a fan tells me you really are the kind of person who believes in those participation medals and ribbons. I'm sorry but I cannot understand that line of thinking. It's more foreign to me than anyone I know from a different nation. These aren't 7 and 8 year old boys and girls with their soccer moms and volunteer coaches. These are highly compensated professionals (the coaches are all 6 figure guys, the athletes are all playing in return for something that is worth nearly a quarter of a million dollars on the front end and potentially a lot more on the back).

                            For your sake I hope you aren't a hypocrite and were cheering just as hard as the team shuffled off the ice following the first Alaska game as you were when they beat Ferris State. Because you're, you know, a REAL fan.

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                            • Re: Irish hockey '12-'13: Why would you not wanna go there?

                              In a development that is almost hockey related we have a brand new reason to be disappointed. If not in the team, at least in one member. Jared Beers was the latest Irish athlete to be arrested, early this morning after allegedly assaulting a woman --either a bartender of the establishment's manager -- at a place near campus.

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                              • Re: Irish hockey '12-'13: Why would you not wanna go there?

                                Look at it this way: good things happened after the last batch of arrests (a trip to the FF). Maybe this cloud has a silver lining...
                                "Hockey is the only tribe I belong to." --Jack Falla

                                "Why, as a matter of fact, I suggested starting a hockey program to Father Callahan, our president. He was downright interested until we came to the use of sticks, and then he threw up his hands. He said, 'No, that game is not for our University. Notre Dame will never endorse any game that puts a club in the hands of an Irishman.' " -- Knute Rockne: All American

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