Even bigger than PSU?

[Handyman]

Re: Even bigger than PSU?

I am pretty sure Leipold wasnt saying he himself or his team (the Wild) are losing money but that the OWNERS are as a group. There are a lot of teams in crisis

[mnstate0fhockey]

I think the owners wouldn't blink about a locked out season. That is they.

I sincerely doubt they want to miss out on a Winter Classic. If they have a lockout, it goes no later than December IMO.

[mnstate0fhockey]

You're joking right?

Gary Bettman is the absolute worst. The owners are almost as bad. Leading up to free-agency, the owner of the Minnesota Wild said this:

"We're not making money, and that's one reason we need to fix our system. We need to fix how much we're spending right now. [The Wild's] revenues are fine. We're down a little bit in attendance, but we're up in sponsorships, we're up in TV revenue. And so the revenue that we're generating is not the issue as much as our expenses. And [the Wild's] biggest expense by far is player salaries"

He then signed two players to almost $200 million worth of deals....

Regardless of whether you think the ludicrous offer made by the owners is gamesmanship, or just an average negotiating technique, it's hard to imagine it being a good starting point. This is especially true because the last go-round resulted in the players taking a cut from revenues, and the 11% cut proposed in the current proposal is completely contradictory to everything Bettman has said about the last CBA being successful. In fact, revenues have risen around 7% annually during that period.

My question is, why is Bettman looking to completely overhaul the system considering how well it has worked? Why not just change some small things like how contracts are scored (eliminating bonuses as an option for payment so the cap is a real cap) and a couple other small things? It seems like pure greediness IMO.

Rant over. However, I did put together a blog piece about this if anyone cares to read any further.

http://citizenweber.wordpress.com/20...-youre-stupid/

The Wild are losing $$. A lot of teams are. Just because an owner hands out $200 million in contracts doesn't mean the team isn't losing money.

You do realize the Minnesota Wild are not his only source of income, right? His wife is the head of SC Johnson - A multi-billion dollar company. They aren't dependent upon income earned from the Wild to put food on the table, but that doesn't mean they want to continue to operate the team at a loss either. It is a business.

If the Wild didn't hand out those contracts, another team would have. And that would have meant a continuation of the same old losing ways for the Wild, which wouldn't be good for their bottom line either.

I don't think it is hypocritical at all. The Wild ownership played by the rules as they are now to try and make their team better. That doesn't mean they can't lobby to have the rules changed so they don't have to write such a huge check with non-hockey money in the future to land free agents.

[giwan]

Re: Even bigger than PSU?

I sincerely doubt they want to miss out on a Winter Classic. If they have a lockout, it goes no later than December IMO.

Yeah that's it the winter classic of course, who would want to miss that. Especially this one with the great site lines.

[Handyman]

Re: Even bigger than PSU?

If the Wild are losing money than the NHL is doomed. I dont buy for a second that they are in the red seeing as last year they had a revenue of $97 million. (source)

Are they making as much as they should be...no. Are they losing money...NOT A CHANCE!

[Wildpantswilly]

Re: Even bigger than PSU?

The Wild are losing $$. A lot of teams are. Just because an owner hands out $200 million in contracts doesn't mean the team isn't losing money.

You do realize the Minnesota Wild are not his only source of income, right? His wife is the head of SC Johnson - A multi-billion dollar company. They aren't dependent upon income earned from the Wild to put food on the table, but that doesn't mean they want to continue to operate the team at a loss either. It is a business.

If the Wild didn't hand out those contracts, another team would have. And that would have meant a continuation of the same old losing ways for the Wild, which wouldn't be good for their bottom line either.

I don't think it is hypocritical at all. The Wild ownership played by the rules as they are now to try and make their team better. That doesn't mean they can't lobby to have the rules changed so they don't have to write such a huge check with non-hockey money in the future to land free agents.

If you think Parise and Suter are suddenly going to make the Wild winners, you are out of your mind. They have one decent line (Heatley, Parise, Setoguchi?) and one good defensemen in Suter. There is no way they're a top 4 team in the West still, and now they have no cap room to add any other smaller pieces. You don't go from 12th in a conference to first - or even top 4 - by adding two pieces.

If he has such significant other sources of money that he can basically just **** away, why complain about this? I just don't buy it. The players don't make lots of money because they demand it, they make it because they have owners competing for them on a semi open market that decides these prices. Don't fool yourself, the owners wouldn't pay this kind of money if they didn't see a return on it.

[Wildpantswilly]

Re: Even bigger than PSU?

Nope, not joking. Are you? Jesus Christ. Try being at least a little bit specific next time if you're gonna come at me like that. I never said Bettman was a great commissioner or that the owners are great. I expected a ridiculous offer and I expect an equally ridiculous counter offer from the players. That's how this works. If all of these situations always started with good starting points, there'd never be any talk of lockouts. They always start far apart.

As a fan, I like where the game is considering where it was and see opportunities to keep growing. Are there things I would change? Absolutely. I'm not an owner nor am I defending them. But what we've seen so far is par for the course in all CBA negotiations. Both sides are equally greedy, especially when you now have someone like Donald Fehr in charge of the players. I really didn't say a whole lot in my original post to warrant this "rant".

The thing with the NHLPA is that they only sign the contracts, they don't make themselves offers. The reason the prices of players have went up is because owners have been offering larger contracts. If Parise and Suter hadn't been offered that much money, they wouldn't have made that much money plain and simple.

If the owners are making contracts that they are losing money on, that's their fault not the players.

(However situations like the Islanders and Coyotes are facing are entirely different and bad for other reasons.)

[J.D.]

Re: Even bigger than PSU?

Again, I am not defending the owners. I'm just not defending the players--led by Donald Fehr--either.

What do you mean the NHLPA doesn't make themselves offers? They are going to laugh at the proposed CBA from the owners and then come back with their own demands. This really isn't anything we haven't seen before.

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Even bigger than PSU?

Osorojo's misleading thread titles, and generally asinine thread ideas are always comedic gold.

[Dirty]

Re: Even bigger than PSU?

If you think Parise and Suter are suddenly going to make the Wild winners, you are out of your mind. They have one decent line (Heatley, Parise, Setoguchi?) and one good defensemen in Suter. There is no way they're a top 4 team in the West still, and now they have no cap room to add any other smaller pieces. You don't go from 12th in a conference to first - or even top 4 - by adding two pieces.

If he has such significant other sources of money that he can basically just **** away, why complain about this? I just don't buy it. The players don't make lots of money because they demand it, they make it because they have owners competing for them on a semi open market that decides these prices. Don't fool yourself, the owners wouldn't pay this kind of money if they didn't see a return on it.

I love that Red Wings fans are so bitter about the Wild signing of Parise and Suter. Nowhere in his post did mnstate0fhockey suggest the Wild were now the best team in the conference. Saying these two were signed to help make the Wild into a winning team does not mean he thinks the Wild are the greatest thing since slightest bread.

Your tirade about the Wild sucking really has nothing to do with the issue being discussed here, so simmer down.

[mnstate0fhockey]

If you think Parise and Suter are suddenly going to make the Wild winners, you are out of your mind. They have one decent line (Heatley, Parise, Setoguchi?) and one good defensemen in Suter. There is no way they're a top 4 team in the West still, and now they have no cap room to add any other smaller pieces. You don't go from 12th in a conference to first - or even top 4 - by adding two pieces.

If he has such significant other sources of money that he can basically just **** away, why complain about this? I just don't buy it. The players don't make lots of money because they demand it, they make it because they have owners competing for them on a semi open market that decides these prices. Don't fool yourself, the owners wouldn't pay this kind of money if they didn't see a return on it.

Your obvious sour grapes aside....

It might not make them winners right away, but it does get them closer. Regardless, whether or not they win isn't the point. The mere fact that they sold 2,000+ new season tickets the week they signed and haven't been able to keep Parise and Suter sweaters on the shelves is what the Wild were after.

The Wild's season ticket base had shrunken from 16,000+ and a waiting list to barely over 12,000 after 4 seasons of missed playoffs. And if they hadn't gone after Parise and Suter (especially Parise) and missed the playoffs again, it likely would have shrunken further.

And the fact that you're even suggesting that Liepold continue to dip into his own pocket for player acquisitions while the team is losing money instead of trying to fix the system so he can operate his business at a profit is utterly ridiculous.

Utterly ridiculous.

I'm guessing you're a Red Wings fan who is pining for the pre-cap era because your team has an aging core group of players, an average group of prospects, and your facing the certainty of your team's first rebuild in 20 years. They lost out on Parise and Suter, they couldn't even get in the door to see Justin Schultz, and they're going to probably have to overpay Semin or Doan in order to piece together another playoff appearance (in which they'll likely get bounced in the first round again).

Have fun with that.

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Even bigger than PSU?

The Red Wing fan angst over the Wild signings is awesome. I love it.

Parise and Suter are 2 pieces. Granlund is another piece. Add to that a potentially healthy return of Bouchard (personally, I'm not holding my breath), and a healthy Koivu, the Wild are adding 4.5 top 2 line players for next season. I'd say that's significant. Also, 95% of Wild fans aren't thinking that the Wild are instantly good, but in 3-4 years, when the incredible wealth of talent in the Wild system gets to the NHL level, watch out.

[SteveF]

Re: Even bigger than PSU?

Osorojo's misleading thread titles, and generally asinine thread ideas are always comedic gold.

you are assuming we understand what he actually means by PSU, NHL, and CBA