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Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

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  • #91
    Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

    Originally posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post
    What is interesting though is that more fans have watched Michigan Tech play at REA than any other team (other than the Sioux obviously)...about 25k more than the Gophers.
    23,986 to be precise.

    We ought to get some sort of perserverance award for that.
    That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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    • #92
      Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

      Originally posted by aparch View Post
      Added in the NCHC to compare/contrast.
      That was a good touch. I should have thought of that.

      Can we trade UMD for BSU?

      I thought BSU's numbers were pretty good, considering that a number of these games were before BSU joined the conference.
      That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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      • #93
        Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

        Originally posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post
        If that were the case I would expect that Denver, CC, Duluth, Wisconsin, Michigan, and BC would all be higher than Maine or New Hampshire (or Omaha for that matter).
        I disagree - Maine and NH are big HEA names, UNO is coached by the beloved Blais and playing them infrequently increases interest. And we're also talking about fractional differences at the top averages, but the teams lowest on the list are in fact the least appealing draws for the most part. That's not a knock on fan support, it's simply life and reality. Don't wear the halo.

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        • #94
          Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

          Originally posted by Slap Shot View Post
          Don't wear the halo.
          I couldn't if I wanted to...Gopher fans stole all the halos this past season.
          North Dakota
          National Champions: 1959, 1963, 1980, 1982, 1987, 1997, 2000, 2016

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          • #95
            Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

            Originally posted by dggoddard View Post
            IMO she's one of the best AD's in D-1 sports.
            Well she might be smart, but to say she is one of the best AD's. I would totally disagree with that statement, and not just because of her hockey related decisions.
            MTU: Three time NCAA champions.

            It never get's easier, you just go faster. -Greg Lemond

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            • #96
              Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

              Best example of "it does matter who you play" and also where you play are NCAA Frozen Four games at Detroit's Joe Louis Arena. Several years ago with neither The Wolverines or the Spartans playing in the title game, less than a few thousand attended the game. As I remember it, RPI had goalie Darren pupa & future NHLer, Adam Oates in the lineup. Having a Frozen Four event on a neutral site rink is very risky!!!

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              • #97
                Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

                Originally posted by Slap Shot View Post
                So debunking the debunking.
                Huh? The average attendance is 11,341. The least attended current WCHA team is Mankato at 10,876. So your attendance drops a whopping 3.8% because you played "no-name" Mankato. Whoop de doo. Actually I would say it pretty much proves my point. If attendance dropped even 10% maybe you would have a case.
                By the way, how many folks are going to show up and watch bottom feeders of the NCHC Western and Miami (from nowhere close by) after 2 or 3 years when the "exciting new rivals" smell wears off? My guess is about 10,800 fans (or more) per game.... because, say it with me folks... It doesn't matter who you play.
                Ryan J
                Last edited by JohnsonsJerseys; 04-25-2012, 10:12 PM.
                Preserving Michigan Tech's Hockey History
                https://www.johnsonsjerseys.net
                Originally posted by geezer
                Tech has the best of everything, even the best jersey nerd.
                Originally posted by manurespreader
                ...I really enjoyed listening to Ryan Johnson. He sounded intelligent.

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                • #98
                  Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

                  Originally posted by FRICKER View Post
                  Best example of "it does matter who you play" and also where you play are NCAA Frozen Four games at Detroit's Joe Louis Arena. Several years ago with neither The Wolverines or the Spartans playing in the title game, less than a few thousand attended the game. As I remember it, RPI had goalie Darren pupa & future NHLer, Adam Oates in the lineup. Having a Frozen Four event on a neutral site rink is very risky!!!
                  I think we can all agree that neutral site games are a whole different beast. You are counting on fans to come in from outside the area. If you get stuck with teams from far away or who don't have fans who travel well, attendance will suck. My point was more about home games and the change in attendance based on the visiting team. You need not look any farther back than this years regionals to see that it really DOES matter in those cases.
                  Ryan J
                  Preserving Michigan Tech's Hockey History
                  https://www.johnsonsjerseys.net
                  Originally posted by geezer
                  Tech has the best of everything, even the best jersey nerd.
                  Originally posted by manurespreader
                  ...I really enjoyed listening to Ryan Johnson. He sounded intelligent.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

                    Originally posted by JohnsonsJerseys View Post
                    Huh? The average attendance is 11,341. The least attended current WCHA team is Mankato at 10,876. So your attendance drops a whopping 3.8% because you played "no-name" Mankato. Whoop de doo. Actually I would say it pretty much proves my point. If attendance dropped even 10% maybe you would have a case.
                    By the way, how many folks are going to show up and watch bottom feeders of the NCHC Western and Miami (from nowhere close by) after 2 or 3 years when the "exciting new rivals" smell wears off? My guess is about 10,800 fans (or more) per game.... because, say it with me folks... It doesn't matter who you play.
                    Ryan J
                    You didn't look at the list very closely. It does matter who you play. It's maybe not a huge difference, but you have to admit that as you work your way down that list, the "name" of the program generally drops. There are always exceptions, especially with sample sizes as few as just a handful of games.

                    But just look at the WCHA teams alone. The top 6 are Minnesota, UNO, SCSU, Wisconsin, Denver and CC. The bottom 5 are BSU, MTU, UMD, UAA and Mankato. Really? It doesn't matter at all?

                    Again, at UND where we've had the benefit of fantastic support by the fans the difference is relatively small. I suspect the same is true for places like Minnesota and Wisconsin. I'd really like to see the difference for teams like Mankato. I've been to Mankato home games in which they've played, Minnesota, UND, CC and Tech. I can tell you from personal experience there was a big difference in crowd sizes at those games.
                    That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

                      Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                      But just look at the WCHA teams alone. The top 6 are Minnesota, UNO, SCSU, Wisconsin, Denver and CC. The bottom 5 are BSU, MTU, UMD, UAA and Mankato. Really? It doesn't matter at all?
                      I tend to agree with JohnsonsJerseys here. The difference between CC and BSU, on average is 6 people. The difference between CC and UAA is less than 100. The only real "outliers" are Minnesota and Mankato (not including UNO due to sample size). Why is Mankato's average attendance so much lower than say UAA's? Certainly the fan base could care less between Mankato and UAA, and it would also certainly seem that Mankato's fanbase would be able to make the trip to the Ralph far easier than UAA's fanbase, so why is there such a difference? The answer is that UND has played Mankato in the first round of the WCHA playoffs (no student section, generally less-attended than regular season games) for a total of 5 games (or nearly 1/4 of the times we've played Mankato at home in this stretch). The attendance at those games?

                      8,048
                      9,258
                      9,371
                      9,963
                      10,288

                      If you take those games out of the sample for Mankato, their average is 11,342. The amount of games UND has played against UAA in the First Round of the WCHA Tourney? 0.

                      My thesis is that, at least for North Dakota, it does not really matter who they play, but rather it matters when the game is played, and how good North Dakota is, or at least how good they are perceived to be. This is why Michigan Tech's numbers aren't similar to Mankato's despite the fact that we've played Tech 9 times in the WCHA playoffs at the Ralph. 3 of those series (2004, 2009, 2011) were WCHA Championship years, and the other (2008) we were generally regarded as the top team out of the WCHA.
                      North Dakota
                      National Champions: 1959, 1963, 1980, 1982, 1987, 1997, 2000, 2016

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                      • Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

                        I'd be curious to see these numbers for some of the more fickle fanbases... Like DU. I think we can all agree UND is well supported no matter what.
                        MTU Hockey fan since I was carried to a game in 1986 - for those counting... that's a lot of depressing hockey. Still love it.

                        Surrounded by Badger Red in Wisconsin. Such an ugly color, but the beer and cheese are delicious...

                        2014-15 WCHA (*Regular season portion) Pick-em Champion (**Forgeting a Week Methodology)

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                        • Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

                          Originally posted by stuckinwi View Post
                          I'd be curious to see these numbers for some of the more fickle fanbases... Like DU. I think we can all agree UND is well supported no matter what.
                          For UND attendance is not based on who you play, it is based on where you play. Attendance is low for UND away games if the other team's arena does not have enough seats.
                          "For me, college hockey was obviously the best step I could have taken to get to the next level." - Jonathan Toews, North Dakota/Chicago Blackhawks

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                          • Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

                            Originally posted by stuckinwi View Post
                            I'd be curious to see these numbers for some of the more fickle fanbases... Like DU. I think we can all agree UND is well supported no matter what.
                            Here's where you're going to run into issues.

                            Against non-name brand opponents DU may have 1,000 or more no shows. CC is probably a similar story.

                            These are season ticket holders who can't give the tickets away. No shoes equal no parking, no concessions and no merchandise.

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                            • Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

                              Originally posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post
                              I tend to agree with JohnsonsJerseys here. The difference between CC and BSU, on average is 6 people. The difference between CC and UAA is less than 100. The only real "outliers" are Minnesota and Mankato (not including UNO due to sample size). Why is Mankato's average attendance so much lower than say UAA's? Certainly the fan base could care less between Mankato and UAA, and it would also certainly seem that Mankato's fanbase would be able to make the trip to the Ralph far easier than UAA's fanbase, so why is there such a difference? The answer is that UND has played Mankato in the first round of the WCHA playoffs (no student section, generally less-attended than regular season games) for a total of 5 games (or nearly 1/4 of the times we've played Mankato at home in this stretch). The attendance at those games?

                              8,048
                              9,258
                              9,371
                              9,963
                              10,288

                              If you take those games out of the sample for Mankato, their average is 11,342. The amount of games UND has played against UAA in the First Round of the WCHA Tourney? 0.

                              My thesis is that, at least for North Dakota, it does not really matter who they play, but rather it matters when the game is played, and how good North Dakota is, or at least how good they are perceived to be. This is why Michigan Tech's numbers aren't similar to Mankato's despite the fact that we've played Tech 9 times in the WCHA playoffs at the Ralph. 3 of those series (2004, 2009, 2011) were WCHA Championship years, and the other (2008) we were generally regarded as the top team out of the WCHA.
                              First, poor attendance at the Mankato playoff games is not unique to Mankato. As I noted in my earlier post, first round playoff attendance is always suspect, as is attendance at other games not typically included in season ticket or student ticket packages.

                              Also, as I pointed out, UND is not a particularily good example unless you are trying to make JJ's point, given the consistently high fan support.

                              I just picked out a year of Mankato's home games, 2008. I selected it because they got to play both UND and MN at home, along with Tech, and had a good mix of "haves" and "have nots" on the schedule. If someone wants to pick a different year, please feel free.

                              As expected for these regular season games, MN was the biggest draw, followed closely by UND. At the bottom were non-conference opponents Princeton and UNO.

                              3126 for Princeton. 5196 for MN. That's a 66% boost in attendance for those keeping score at home.

                              Tech was right in the middle at 4213. UND outdrew them by 16% and MN by 23%.

                              Again, we're only talking about people numbering in the hundreds, but if your total attendance at a game is only 4500, I'm sure all 10-20% increases are greatly appreciated.

                              I suspect Mankato's experience is not alone, or unique to 2008.
                              That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Debunking the Myth – Who you play has a huge impact on attendance

                                Average game attendance seems to have fallen off at Michigan State and at Ohio State over the past 10 years.

                                Competition against other big 10 rivals could boost their attendance. May draw in new fans.
                                "For me, college hockey was obviously the best step I could have taken to get to the next level." - Jonathan Toews, North Dakota/Chicago Blackhawks

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