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  • Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

    Originally posted by HumRsky View Post
    As for lower division titles, I don't begrudge any team for celebrating and being proud of those accomplishments, but I feel it's appropriate to only consider D1 accomplishments when comparing D1 programs.
    I'm not surprised you feel that way, but I think it's a little short-sighted.


    Powers &8^]

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    • Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

      Wow. What a freaking gong show. I was going to do a list of teams from 1984 (the eastern split and advent of 4 major conferences) but after browsing through this "discussion" I realize there's no point. Saved me a lot of trouble as I couldn't track down results of the CCHA Tournament that long ago.

      Comment


      • Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

        Originally posted by Priceless View Post
        Wow. What a freaking gong show. I was going to do a list of teams from 1984 (the eastern split and advent of 4 major conferences) but after browsing through this "discussion" I realize there's no point. Saved me a lot of trouble as I couldn't track down results of the CCHA Tournament that long ago.
        We got off track a little, and I'm not innocent in that, but when the discussion has been on-topic it has been productive and enjoyable (to me).
        SCSU Hockey: 2001 WCHA Playoff Champions, 2013 WCHA Champions & Frozen Four, 2014 NCHC Champions, 2016 NCHC Playoff Champions
        UMD Women: 2001, 2002, 2003, 2008, 2010
        Gopher Football: 1934, 1935, 1936, 1940, 1941, 1960
        Johnnie Football: 1963, 1965, 1976, 2003
        UMD Football: 2008, 2010
        UMD Men: 2011

        Comment


        • Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

          I will repost, so people don't have to look all the way back:
          This is a ranking I put together of every current D1 hockey team based only on what they have accomplished; winning %, NCAA win % and other metrics were not considered. This is not intended to be better than FS23's in any way. This represents about 4-5 hours of research and math, not years and I do believe that the metrics FS23 used are very valid for comparing programs, this is just another way of ranking the teams.

          The scoring system I used is as follows:
          National Title (NT) - 10pts
          Championship Game Appearance (ChG) - 5pts
          Frozen Four Appearance (FF) - 4pts
          Major Conference Regular Season title (RS) - 4pts
          Major Conference Playoff Title (Pl) - 4pts
          NCAA Appearances (App) - 2 pts
          Minor Conference Regular Season title (RS) - 2pts
          Minor Conference Playoff Title (Pl) - 2pts
          NCAA Wins (Wins) - 1 pt

          Further explanation:
          Minor Conference Titles are designated with a lowercase "m," so if a team has one minor conference title it would be designated 1m in that column. Similarly, for the seasons in which there were two WCHA playoff "winners" I gave those teams half credit, or 2 points and those titles are designated with a lowercase "h," so if a team was a playoff co-winner 7 times, it will be designated 7h in that column. I gave full credit to all regular season champions, even co-Champions, because I didn't feel like going back and sorting through all that.
          The Tri-State League and the Ivy League are considered major conference champions from 1948-49 until the formation of the ECAC in 1961-62. This gave teams in those league perhaps an unfair advantage, Harvard and St. Lawrence were helped particularly by this inclusion and people will probably bemoan how high they are ranked. The champions of those leagues after the formation of the ECAC were not included. I considered the first season of the Midwest Collegiate Hockey League in 1951-52 as the first season of the WCHA. I considered all CCHA championships as major although a strong argument could be made that it was not a major conference until the late '70s. The minor conference I used are MAAC/Atlantic Hockey, College Hockey America, and the Great West.

          Note that points are cumulative. For example, another way of looking at the points is that a National Title is worth 25 points (1 NCAA Appearance, 4 NCAA wins, 1 Frozen Four Appearance, 1 Championship game appearance, 1 National Title) and a runner up is worth 14 points (1 NCAA Appearance, 3 NCAA wins, 1 Frozen Four Appearance, 1 Championship game appearance) and so on... People will probably also gripe that, particularly in the minor conferences, the playoff title should be worth more because of the auto-bid, but don't forget the auto-bid means an NCAA appearance and an automatic 2 additional points that are not guaranteed to the Regular Season Champion.

          I will list all of the numbers and total points, so if you really don't like my point system, come up with your own and plug it into the numbers given.
          The rankings will be in the next post...discuss.
          SCSU Hockey: 2001 WCHA Playoff Champions, 2013 WCHA Champions & Frozen Four, 2014 NCHC Champions, 2016 NCHC Playoff Champions
          UMD Women: 2001, 2002, 2003, 2008, 2010
          Gopher Football: 1934, 1935, 1936, 1940, 1941, 1960
          Johnnie Football: 1963, 1965, 1976, 2003
          UMD Football: 2008, 2010
          UMD Men: 2011

          Comment


          • Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

            *******http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/579021_10101901393189740_13966976_76945111_1152170 546_n.jpg********

            And for Comparison's Sake, here is FS23's rankings:

            1. Michigan - 492.1054 points
            2. North Dakota - 439.9358 points
            3. Minnesota - 411.0563 points
            4. Denver - 353.8417 points
            5. Boston College 349.1316 points
            6. Boston University 345.4844 points
            7. Wisconsin - 340.5347 points
            8. Michigan State - 234.6119 points
            9. Maine - 170.4416 points
            10. Michigan Tech - 161.3680 points
            11. Cornell - 155.2406 points
            12. LSSU - 154.1266 points
            13. Colorado College - 148.9003 points
            14. Clarkson - 123.7410 points
            15. Harvard - 119.2895 points
            16. Minnesota Duluth - 110.5424 points
            17. RPI - 98.5607 points
            18. Northern Michigan - 80.9381 points
            19. New Hampshire - 79.7827 points
            20. Bowling Green - 79.5213 points
            21. St. Lawrence - 64.4836 points
            22. Miami - 43.0583 points
            23. Providence - 37.8025 points
            24. Notre Dame - 37.2961 points
            25. Dartmouth 35.3232 points
            26. Yale - 33.6690 points
            27. Colgate - 28.9543 points
            28. Ferris State - 27.3798 points
            29. Northeastern - 25.0440 points
            30. Brown - 18.5029 points
            31. Ohio State - 17.3244 points
            32. Vermont - 15.8458 points
            33. SCSU - 13.8159 points
            34. Bemidji State - 12.3413 points
            35. Union - 11.6379 points
            36. RIT - 9.5637 points
            37. Lowell - 8.5005 points
            38. Western Michigan - 7.2926 points
            39. Niagara - 6.7155 points
            40. Air Force - 6.0956 points
            41. Princeton - 5.4220 points
            42. Anchorage - 5.3976 points
            43. Holy Cross - 4.9548 points
            44. Quinnipiac - 4.1548 points
            45. Merrimack - 4.1040 points
            46. Omaha -3.7569 points
            47. Mercyhurst - 3.6398 points
            48. Alaska - 3.1866 points
            49. Massachusetts - 3.1275 points
            50. Mankato - 2.6048 points
            51. Alabama Huntsville - 2.2262 points
            52. Army - 1.3795 points
            53. UConn - 0.2446 points
            54. Sacred Heart - 0.1570 points
            55. Canisius - 0.0279 points
            56. Robert Morris - 0.0267 points
            57. Bentley - 0.0255 points
            58. American International - 0.0079 points
            59. Penn State - 0.0000 points
            SCSU Hockey: 2001 WCHA Playoff Champions, 2013 WCHA Champions & Frozen Four, 2014 NCHC Champions, 2016 NCHC Playoff Champions
            UMD Women: 2001, 2002, 2003, 2008, 2010
            Gopher Football: 1934, 1935, 1936, 1940, 1941, 1960
            Johnnie Football: 1963, 1965, 1976, 2003
            UMD Football: 2008, 2010
            UMD Men: 2011

            Comment


            • Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

              I find it interesting how closely the two formulas ranked the teams. Most teams only move a spot or two one way or the other. One difference is that it will take PSU at least a season to get out of the tie for the cellar in yours, whereas in FSU's they could theoretically get out of the cellar with their first DI game.

              Glad to see this back on track. I would have thought it horribly obvious that "greatest" is subjective. And that the components that would go into any "greatest" formula are themselves subjective. Thereby making it impossible to not only determine the "greatest," but to come up with the single formula that would definitively name the "greatest". Apparently not everybody knows Captain Obvious.
              bigmrg74: "You can't drink the day away if you don't start early!"
              SledDog: "UncleRay seems to be the most sensible one here tonight."
              All great men are dead and I'm not feeling well.
              A Margarita! in every hand and another Margarita! in the other hand!

              And stay off the lawn!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by UncleRay View Post
                I find it interesting how closely the two formulas ranked the teams. Most teams only move a spot or two one way or the other. One difference is that it will take PSU at least a season to get out of the tie for the cellar in yours, whereas in FSU's they could theoretically get out of the cellar with their first DI game.

                Glad to see this back on track. I would have thought it horribly obvious that "greatest" is subjective. And that the components that would go into any "greatest" formula are themselves subjective. Thereby making it impossible to not only determine the "greatest," but to come up with the single formula that would definitively name the "greatest". Apparently not everybody knows Captain Obvious.
                We can pick the topic back up if you want to, or we can just give it a rest?

                Comment


                • Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

                  Championship season is upon us, Quinnipiac and Niagara have already locked up regular season titles and I thought I'd dig this up to see where teams stand and where they might end up by the end of the season. I've already added the aforementioned titles that have been earned so far this year, and also added an NCAA appearance to Lake Superior State's total that I had erroneously left out last year.
                  The scoring system I used is as follows:
                  National Title (NT) - 10pts
                  Championship Game Appearance (ChG) - 5pts
                  Frozen Four Appearance (FF) - 4pts
                  Major Conference Regular Season title (RS) - 4pts
                  Major Conference Playoff Title (Pl) - 4pts
                  NCAA Appearances (App) - 2 pts
                  Minor Conference Regular Season title (RS) - 2pts
                  Minor Conference Playoff Title (Pl) - 2pts
                  NCAA Wins (Wins) - 1 pt

                  For a full explanation, go to the first post in the thread.
                  *******http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/6563_10102880898563120_124616523_n.jpg********
                  SCSU Hockey: 2001 WCHA Playoff Champions, 2013 WCHA Champions & Frozen Four, 2014 NCHC Champions, 2016 NCHC Playoff Champions
                  UMD Women: 2001, 2002, 2003, 2008, 2010
                  Gopher Football: 1934, 1935, 1936, 1940, 1941, 1960
                  Johnnie Football: 1963, 1965, 1976, 2003
                  UMD Football: 2008, 2010
                  UMD Men: 2011

                  Comment


                  • Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

                    Originally posted by Gurtholfin View Post
                    Here's another thread that Dubbie-Wubbie has railroaded. All under the guise of having "honest questions" that he's "really interested in the responses to."

                    The thing is that theses honest questions and observations ALWAYS have the same goal in mind - to prop up Minnesota as the bestest college hockey program of all time. It's not even thinly veiled. Every thread he's in - EVERY. It's obvious and transparent and that is the reason that people call him on it.

                    As Dirty said, without fail Dubbie will play the victim at that point. "What? That's not what i was saying? I just had an honest question."

                    Thank God he's not in the cafe or we'd have to hear ad nauseum how the Replacements were the best rock band ever or how Minnesota is the best place to take a vacation etc, etc, etc.
                    Gurt, the Replacements were the best rock band ever its not even debatable.;p
                    Slap Shot - 444 might want to consider a restraining order.
                    dggoddard - Minnesota is THE ELITE Program in all of college hockey.
                    wasmania - you have to be the very best to get ice time with the great gophers!

                    Comment


                    • Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

                      Originally posted by HumRsky View Post
                      Championship season is upon us, Quinnipiac and Niagara have already locked up regular season titles and I thought I'd dig this up to see where teams stand and where they might end up by the end of the season. I've already added the aforementioned titles that have been earned so far this year, and also added an NCAA appearance to Lake Superior State's total that I had erroneously left out last year.
                      The scoring system I used is as follows:
                      National Title (NT) - 10pts
                      Championship Game Appearance (ChG) - 5pts
                      Frozen Four Appearance (FF) - 4pts
                      Major Conference Regular Season title (RS) - 4pts
                      Major Conference Playoff Title (Pl) - 4pts
                      NCAA Appearances (App) - 2 pts
                      Minor Conference Regular Season title (RS) - 2pts
                      Minor Conference Playoff Title (Pl) - 2pts
                      NCAA Wins (Wins) - 1 pt

                      For a full explanation, go to the first post in the thread.
                      In my opinion It is very hard to place second which is why I believe second place deserves more points, maybe 7 points.
                      Slap Shot - 444 might want to consider a restraining order.
                      dggoddard - Minnesota is THE ELITE Program in all of college hockey.
                      wasmania - you have to be the very best to get ice time with the great gophers!

                      Comment


                      • Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

                        Originally posted by 4four4 View Post
                        Gurt, the Replacements were the best rock band ever its not even debatable.;p

                        Yes, there's that...

                        Comment


                        • Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

                          Originally posted by Gurtholfin View Post
                          Yes, there's that...
                          On the way in the store 89.3 the Current played "Sky Way". Possibly, the greatest Replacement song eva. ;P
                          Slap Shot - 444 might want to consider a restraining order.
                          dggoddard - Minnesota is THE ELITE Program in all of college hockey.
                          wasmania - you have to be the very best to get ice time with the great gophers!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by HumRsky View Post
                            This is a ranking I put together of every current D1 hockey team based only on what they have accomplished; winning %, NCAA win % and other metrics were not considered. This is not intended to be better than FS23's in any way. This represents about 4-5 hours of research and math, not years and I do believe that the metrics FS23 used are very valid for comparing programs, this is just another way of ranking the teams.

                            The scoring system I used is as follows:
                            National Title (NT) - 10pts
                            Championship Game Appearance (ChG) - 5pts
                            Frozen Four Appearance (FF) - 4pts
                            Major Conference Regular Season title (RS) - 4pts
                            Major Conference Playoff Title (Pl) - 4pts
                            NCAA Appearances (App) - 2 pts
                            Minor Conference Regular Season title (RS) - 2pts
                            Minor Conference Playoff Title (Pl) - 2pts
                            NCAA Wins (Wins) - 1 pt

                            Further explanation:
                            Minor Conference Titles are designated with a lowercase "m," so if a team has one minor conference title it would be designated 1m in that column. Similarly, for the seasons in which there were two WCHA playoff "winners" I gave those teams half credit, or 2 points and those titles are designated with a lowercase "h," so if a team was a playoff co-winner 7 times, it will be designated 7h in that column. I gave full credit to all regular season champions, even co-Champions, because I didn't feel like going back and sorting through all that.
                            The Tri-State League and the Ivy League are considered major conference champions from 1948-49 until the formation of the ECAC in 1961-62. This gave teams in those league perhaps an unfair advantage, Harvard and St. Lawrence were helped particularly by this inclusion and people will probably bemoan how high they are ranked. The champions of those leagues after the formation of the ECAC were not included. I considered the first season of the Midwest Collegiate Hockey League in 1951-52 as the first season of the WCHA. I considered all CCHA championships as major although a strong argument could be made that it was not a major conference until the late '70s. The minor conference I used are MAAC/Atlantic Hockey, College Hockey America, and the Great West.

                            Note that points are cumulative. For example, another way of looking at the points is that a National Title is worth 25 points (1 NCAA Appearance, 4 NCAA wins, 1 Frozen Four Appearance, 1 Championship game appearance, 1 National Title) and a runner up is worth 14 points (1 NCAA Appearance, 3 NCAA wins, 1 Frozen Four Appearance, 1 Championship game appearance) and so on... People will probably also gripe that, particularly in the minor conferences, the playoff title should be worth more because of the auto-bid, but don't forget the auto-bid means an NCAA appearance and an automatic 2 additional points that are not guaranteed to the Regular Season Champion.

                            I will list all of the numbers and total points, so if you really don't like my point system, come up with your own and plug it into the numbers given.
                            The rankings will be in the next post...discuss.
                            If you are counting NCAA Championships..... Then Bemidji State should be kicking EVERYONE'S ***. :P
                            - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God. -

                            Go Bemidji Beavers
                            Go you Green and White
                            Go Bemidji Beavers
                            Fight with all your might!
                            Rah! Rah! Rah!
                            We are here to cheer you
                            We are out to win your fame,
                            So, Go Bemidji Beavers
                            Fight to win this game.-Fight.

                            Comment


                            • Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

                              Originally posted by JDUBBS1280 View Post
                              There are subjective factors that cannot be quantitated mathmatically.
                              ah, but if you cannot measure something, how can you tell whether it really exists? it might merely be an artifact of your imagination....

                              or is this now an Aquinas vs Sartre throwdown??
                              "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

                              "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

                              "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

                              "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

                              Comment


                              • Re: NCAA era Program rankings-accomplishments only

                                Originally posted by GopherBigGuy911 View Post
                                If you are counting NCAA Championships..... Then Bemidji State should be kicking EVERYONE'S ***. :P
                                if you really want to go there...Middlebury kicks BSU's ***.
                                Bowling Green St. Univ. '88 SUNY Potsdam '79

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