Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

[defkit]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

Debating ... Hmmmm... Really? More like baiting to me. And people do a lot of THAT too in America. Having fun at other's expense seems to be your MO. Whatever makes you happy, but don't insult by calling it debating. Its clear you like to stir the pot and provoke to promote responses and reel them in.

I figured you "admire" JP as I do and pretty much as everyone else does who has followed College hockey for awhile. In my case, many decades. I hate BC (its an institutional affliction that can't be helped ), but admire York for same reason that I admire Parker. They are the true lions and pillars of the sport.

I have been one of Jackie's biggest critic the past two years saying its time to hang it up, but I find all the critical comments and innuendos the past few days about how Jackie has handled a very difficult situation to be crap. That interview in the Globe yesterday was classic JP. Honest, direct, but he was clearly pained at what he had to do.

Due process? What does that term have anything to do with how a coach in any sport handles significant team violations? That term is for court proceedings and legal issues. Not the coach's or BU's rules and code of conduct.

In JP's case, the team rules, especially where scholarships are involved are very clear cut. After the St. Patrick's Day 2010 debacle, Corey knew the score, but he obviously has a drinking problem that he cannot control. It's a very sad story, but one that is happening everywhere across the country on just about every college campus. Those that know Jack, also know he will probably follow up with Corey in the weeks and months to come ... because that's Jack. But you won't hear or read about that.

Well said. Ditto everything for me (including the part about being a critic of JP).

[collegefan06]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

That is an incredibly ignorant statement.

Perhaps you should read the Travis Roy book "Eleven Seconds." That might give you an idea if "Parker cares about any of his players beyond what they can do for him on the ice."

Beyond that, just consider how many former players attend games, flock to hockey alumni events and maintain a solid relationship with Parker, often decades after they have graduated.
If he didn't care, and didn't still care after they've gone, they wouldn't care so much.

Harry, my statement was not ignorant at all. I don't disagree with you about the players from an earlier era with Jack. Please don't insult people's intelligence using the tragic circumstances surrounding Travis to use as an example of Parker's treatment and care of former players. I submit that there are few, if any players under 30 years of age that have any relationship at all with Parker. Whether a player has a relationship with his former coach has nothing to do with coming to games.
the overwelming majority of players that wore the BU uniform have a strong love for the school, the program and the players that have succeded them and will come to games for those reasons and the fact they love hockey and cheering their favorite team on. Do you really think these players show up because they are there to simply support Parker or a relationship you believe he has with them today?

I will choose not to characterize my view of your comments as you did mine but if we were sitting across a table from one another having a conversation not on a public forum I could provide you numerous facts and details that support my opinion. I appreciate your comments on many fronts and your perspective of the "old days" of BU hockey but my statement stands for the relationship of players of this century and their lack of a relationship with Parker and the lack of concern for these players futures beyone hockey when they didn't help his cause any longer.

[bantam75]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

You might be right. I would though bet that he wishes in hindsight he had done more and it will probably weigh on him for some time. He clearly is a compasionate person and has proven that over the past 35+ years. No one wants to see any player fail, especially one he says is a very good kid when not drinking... thus the circle starts over again, why enable and let it continue? why not demand help or not dress?

Your question about when to send to rehab? No clue. hopefully before anything bad happened.

Very presumptuous comments from the master "debater". I would bet the opposite. That it will weigh on Jack because he DID take action, and multiple times from the public accounts over past few years. But Corey would not deal with his problem and now he is paying the price. There is nothing here to suggest that Parker and coaches enabled Corey - just your provocative statements. The alcohol and drug abuse problems on virtually all college campuses is a societal problem that can't easily be solved by "demanding help" as you say.

Seems to be that your rants here are because you feel that college administrators and coaches should stage interventions for students and players that have substance abuse problems. They can't. They don't have the legal right to do so. But parents, family and friends can and should be the ones exercising more parental supervision and action. But they aren't. We don't know what conversations took place with Corey's parents after his suspension after St Patrick's Day 2010. But we do know what actions JP took and they are hardly those of an enabler.

[collegefan06]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

Hmmmmm.

When I rep someone positive or negative I identify myself.

[Harry Cleverly]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

Harry, my statement was not ignorant at all. I don't disagree with you about the players from an earlier era with Jack. Please don't insult people's intelligence using the tragic circumstances surrounding Travis to use as an example of Parker's treatment and care of former players. I submit that there are few, if any players under 30 years of age that have any relationship at all with Parker. Whether a player has a relationship with his former coach has nothing to do with coming to games.
the overwelming majority of players that wore the BU uniform have a strong love for the school, the program and the players that have succeded them and will come to games for those reasons and the fact they love hockey and cheering their favorite team on. Do you really think these players show up because they are there to simply support Parker or a relationship you believe he has with them today?

I will choose not to characterize my view of your comments as you did mine but if we were sitting across a table from one another having a conversation not on a public forum I could provide you numerous facts and details that support my opinion. I appreciate your comments on many fronts and your perspective of the "old days" of BU hockey but my statement stands for the relationship of players of this century and their lack of a relationship with Parker and the lack of concern for these players futures beyone hockey when they didn't help his cause any longer.

So what you would be implying is that for his first 30 years as a coach at BU, that Parker had a rapport with players and had concern for them beyond what they contributed on the ice. Yet for the last decade the man has changed and his only concern with them is what happens on a sheet of ice?

Wow!

Do you really think the hockey alumni would have such a strong affinity for the program and for the school if they also hadn't had a positive relationship with Parker?
And what made him change over the past decade to such an uncaring ogre?

Sorry, but I'm not buying it.

The age gap between Parker and his players is getting wider all of the time. He's not their big brother any more. He's not even like their father. Grandfather would be closer to the truth. That may have changed the dynamic of his relationship to his players a bit. But I still have problems believing that he has stopped caring, because that is one of the bedrock foundations of his legacy.

He is, and always has been, a disciplinarian. Athletes today don't take to discipline the way they used to. The coach's word isn't always 'God' to them anymore. So maybe there is more of a generation gap to bridge. But most kids today still want, and desperately need, some discipline.

And no, the Travis Roy reference doesn't insult anyone's intelligence. It is what it is, a documentation of a tragedy and the great care that the school AND HIS COACH took for him, and still do to this day. That is not a guess or an inference or a feeling. It is there in black and white, and in Scarlet & White, for all to see and to read.

[Terrance]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

The age gap between Parker and his players is getting wider all of the time.

He keeps getting older. They keep staying the same age. Haha.

Brilliant analysis on this though. Is this not true for every coach?

[ericredaxe]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

On this subject....

If all Parker cared about was what his players can do for him on the ice, then he would not have kicked Trivino off the team. It is because JP cares about Trivinos well being, that he decided he had to dismiss him. It's called tough love. Hopefully Corey is able to overcome (what appears to be) a major problem. If he does, then most likely, 10 years form now, he will be crediting JP for being the one to get the much needed message to him.

[collegefan06]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

Moreover, your characterization that Parker sat Trivino down and told him "one more slip up and you're done, but oh by the way you can drink on designated nights" is an asinine and intentional misinterpretation of the truth.(Quote)

Direct quote. �The only thing you can do to help a kid with an alcohol problem is get him to stop drinking.� Next sentance is as follows...


Parker said Sunday night was one of those specified nights because the team had just returned from a three-day road trip to play the University of New Hampshire and the University of Maine

It seems that most of the debate about what should or should not have been done with Trivino falls from one exteme to another. It appears most people accept that drinking goes on regularly in college and by Parker's statement he believes Trivino has/had a drinking problem and it was a matter of time until he would be kicked off the team because of that problem.

One can argue that Trivino is 21 and therefore an adult but I would argue that he is also an asset that BU invested in via scholarship to produce for the hockey team. Parker runs the hockey team and it is clear that Trivino was one of the most important assets and contributors to this year's team. We have all watched this team building consistency and demonstrating that it could go further then any team since 2009's national championship.

I have said from day one that I can't quite pinpoint it but generally things don't add up for me.....just my opinion. I also clearly have certain strong opinions about the coaching....maybe I'm right and maybe I'm wrong.

Here is my question that I'd love people's perspective on: If Parker believed one of his most important assets was a ticking time bomb that was going to explode at any point and that if that happen, it would have a negative effect on the team, why couldn't he figure out some process or support structure to keep Corey in check?

There are strong opinions on this site that Parker cares deeply about his players. If that is true, was there not something short of forcing him into rehab that would have helped guide Corey through the season and provide him regular mentoring and support to avoid what eventually happened?

It just seems to me that Parker had a vested interest in seeing Trivino succeed and simply telling him "I'm warning you that I will kick you off the team for another drinking incident and also telling you that you will be back here with me kicking you off the team at some point this season" is not a very productive way to show you care for the player and care about protecting the program. Something in between the extremes seems to have been a logical proactive step Parker could have taken to show he cared about his player and program rather then what eventually transpired.

Just saying....

[Harry Cleverly]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

I have said from day one that I can't quite pinpoint it but generally things don't add up for me.....just my opinion. I also clearly have certain strong opinions about the coaching....maybe I'm right and maybe I'm wrong.

Here is my question that I'd love people's perspective on: If Parker believed one of his most important assets was a ticking time bomb that was going to explode at any point and that if that happen, it would have a negative effect on the team, why couldn't he figure out some process or support structure to keep Corey in check?

There are strong opinions on this site that Parker cares deeply about his players. If that is true, was there not something short of forcing him into rehab that would have helped guide Corey through the season and provide him regular mentoring and support to avoid what eventually happened?

It just seems to me that Parker had a vested interest in seeing Trivino succeed and simply telling him "I'm warning you that I will kick you off the team for another drinking incident and also telling you that you will be back here with me kicking you off the team at some point this season" is not a very productive way to show you care for the player and care about protecting the program. Something in between the extremes seems to have been a logical proactive step Parker could have taken to show he cared about his player and program rather then what eventually transpired.

Just saying....

As times have changed, the coach is no longer the be all, and end all of players' college existences. There are certain rules and guidelines that even veteran, iconic coaches like Parker, York, Boeheim, Saban and Miles have to follow.

Coaches still have the power of discipline within their own programs. But how much control, or power, should have they outside of their team structures? Where does their responsibilities end, and the players' own responsibilities take over? And what of the school? And the players' own families?

Athletes that can accept responsibility for themselves tend to be the ones that rise in the ranks to leadership positions. If they can help guide and lead teammates, they become captains.

Athletes have a responsibility to their team, teammates, school, coaches and families. They will either put in the effort and sacrifice and maximize their talents, or they won't. And there are a lot of people trying to help them along that path to success. The threat to take that all away is the most powerful tool that a coach has in his arsenal of discipline. And you are correct - if it has to be used, it hurts everyone.

A coach needs to have the courage to make that threat, and to back it up.

Parker drew that line in the sand for Trivino, and he crossed it. And Parker backed it up by doing exactly what he said he would do. Short of an intervention (which others have posted would need to come from his family), it appears that Parker used the strongest tool of discipline that is at a coaches discretion to use in this time we live in.

[chickod]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

why couldn't he figure out some process or support structure to keep Corey in check?

Because, as has been reiterated ad nauseum on this thread, you CAN'T make somebody do something they don't want to do! Why do we keep analyzing this to death? In one breath, there are all these comments that "Parker doesn't resonate with today's players" and then in the next breath they say he is supposed to magically solve all their problems by "telling" them what to do?? Listen to yourselves!!! Jeez...enough already.

[quiddlet]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

So I'm going to sleep now... and as far as I know... Charlie Coyle is still a Terrier.

[hockey east fan]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

USHR is reporting another key loss for BU...This must be Coyle....tough loss for you guys....

[Redd10]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

anybody subscribe to ushr and can tell us what the story actually says?

[redhead18]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

anybody subscribe to ushr and can tell us what the story actually says?

Straight from USHR:

The major buzz among the scouting fraternity at the prep tournaments today revolved around Boston University sophomore center Charlie Coyle, who has left Boston University, supposedly due to academic issues.

Coyle, who is expected in Camrose, Alberta Friday for the start of the U.S. National Junior Team’s training camp will, at the conclusion of the World Junior Championships, be reporting to another team. Word is that he will go to the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League, likely with the Saint John Sea Dogs.

Coyle, the Hockey East Rookie of the Year as a freshman, was drafted in the first round of the 2010 NHL draft by the San Jose Sharks. This past summer, his rights were traded to the Minnesota Wild. The Wild's first round choice from this year's draft, former Lawrence Academy center Zack Phillips, is playing at Saint John, and he and Coyle became friends this past summer at the Wild's rookie camp.

The word on Coyle comes three days after the Terriers kicked senior center Corey Trivino off the team following his arrest Sunday night for assault and battery, and assault with intent to rape.

There is reportedly a degree of unhappiness among some Boston University players over the manner in which Trivino was dismissed from the team, specifically coach Jack Parker's pointed comments concerning Trivino's alleged history of alcohol abuse.

In 16 games for BU this year, Coyle had a 3-11-14 line.

[Redd10]

Re: Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread Part Deux

well alright...next question - how accurate is ushr generally?