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  • #31
    Re: The end of leagues as we know?

    Originally posted by Dude Love View Post
    UMD just won the NCAA Title. Fail.

    We can just team up with Northern, Western, Ferris, etc. to fill out one big conference. Also, I should have known that UND would be the ones to go out and try to ruin hockey.
    I can't tell if sarcasm is being thrown in this statement or not. One could say that the BTHC is the catalyst for the possible "ruin" of hockey. So if anything, blame the catalyst.

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    • #32
      Re: The end of leagues as we know?

      Originally posted by jjmc85 View Post
      So who is the mystery Hockey East team rumored to be in the conversation?

      At first, one would have to think BC or BU, but would one of them really leave the conference without the other? If not them, who else?

      Well, it seems like they want hockey schools. These would be BU, Maine, UNH, Vermont, UML, Merrimack and Northeastern. I don't think it's BU for the above reason, and you could say the same about Maine and UNH. No offense to their fans, but I doubt UML and Merrimack are being invited to any super conference. I don't see Northeastern leaving BU and BC, but they have left BU in the past, so I guess maybe it could be them. But, and no offense to them, does a super league really want Northeastern? I don't know enough about Vermont's situation, but they just joined. Are they going to leave so soon?

      For completeness sake, unfortunately UMass is in the same boat at NU, UML and Merrimack, as is Providence College.

      I'd think everyone has too good of a thing going in Hockey East to leave. Why leave a great bus-league to join an airplane league with Big 10 leftovers? It doesn't make sense.
      The mystery HE team really doesn't make much sense. Only BU, BC, UNH, and Maine would be considered, let's be real, no one's looking to poach Lowell, PC, or anyone else, the brand power just isn't there. Northeastern left BU in basketball, totally different story than this, and they didn't really "leave" so much as both were extended invites to the CAA, BU turned it down and NU accepted.

      UNH and Maine, on state budgets, very likely aren't going to jump at the idea you stated of leaving an already powerful bus trip league to be making regular trips to the midwest against average and above average teams. That leaves BU and BC. 0% chance Parker goes for this idea, and he calls the shots. The most likely candidate as the mystery team, BC, with their BCS name, rivalry with ND, could theoretically make the jump. But why would they? I seriously doubt Jerry would want anything to do with this, would hate the travel, and would hate getting rid of home games with BU, UNH, and Maine. Sure regular games against North Dakota, Notre Dame, and Miami would be nice, but you can accomplish playing that level of competition in Hockey East in a bus ride. However, DeFillipo has made a conference shift before. But with that already high ACC travel budget, do they want to pile onto it even more when it's not necessary?

      None of this makes sense for any HE team. The remaining western teams are no better than equal to the quality of HE play, but they're all a time zone or two away.
      time to write new history

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      • #33
        Re: The end of leagues as we know?

        Originally posted by HarleyMC View Post
        I'd be very surprised to see UND leave the WCHA. This comes across to me as pathetic revenue driven political posturing to leverage pressure on McLeod to add two new teams to the WCHA...that's all. And I think that's exactly what will happen in the next couple years
        There is only one reason why this new conference is forming; Wisconsin & Minnesota left the WCHA. There is no way that UND, CC or DU would have left the WCHA without their departures.

        TV revenue is not driving this deal, neither are attendance issues or money; its all about recruiting and building brand awareness at the schools who join the new conference.

        None of the other Minnesota schools will join the new conference because they don't want to or are unable to spend the money on travel. That's straight from several WCHA sources at the Final 5.

        Sounds to me like the eight team conference will be DU, CC, Notre Dame, Boston College, Miami, North Dakota, Western Michigan & Nebraska-Omaha. Notre Dame is clearly the straw that stirs the drink in this deal.

        Why would BC join a new conference with western schools? Recruiting and of course the chance to join up with Notre Dame.

        What about travel costs? All the schools mentioned above have hockey budgets in the $2-4 million range, $140,000 in travel is a drop in the bucket [$20,000 X 7 plane trips]. DU & CC's travel costs will probably decease as they will only need to take five conference plane trips.
        Last edited by dggoddard; 07-03-2011, 07:24 AM.

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        • #34
          Re: The end of leagues as we know?

          Originally posted by dggoddard View Post
          TV revenue is not driving this deal, neither are attendance issues or money; its all about recruiting and building brand awareness at the schools who join the new conference.
          And yet you say this on your blog today ...

          Great "name brand" opponents coming into Magness Arena each weekend would be great news for DU hockey fans.
          And in the past your "rationale" given often included references to the lost revenue from the decline in attendance. Nevermind anyway, I always recognized that "rationale" was a contrivance necessary to supplement the Alumni-ego when the true reason you support (nay ... deeply desire) the formation of a BHHC is instead to stroke that ego in the absence of the overshadowing Big10 programs that just left you ****ing in the wind.

          By aligning the proposed schools you appeal to a sense that while none of them can imagine themselves to be Big10 schools they can certainly become/portray themselves as superior to all the other D-2 schools. It's more classic Edward Bernays PR. "Look at us ... the big boys may have left the rest of us but we're all the biggest of the rest."

          So in essence ... it's Butt Hurt City which lies at the core of this imaginary realignment. Nothing more. And if Ken Ralph at CC isn't sharp enough to see that the whole concept is just nothing more than a dick measuring contest for butt hurt "mid-majors", I'll be deeply surprised.

          Don't be so mad brah. It's a state school/private school mismatch. The Big10 schools (and lots of other state schools) are always going to be better schools than DU. Learn to accept your schools true place in the hierarchy ... it's one of hundreds of mid-sized private universities that overcharge on tuition. The only thing that makes DU in anyway standout for any number of school names that I could rattle off is that they had some national success in their history at one niche sport.

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          • #35
            Re: The end of leagues as we know?

            Originally posted by dggoddard View Post
            There is only one reason why this new conference is forming; Wisconsin & Minnesota left the WCHA. There is no way that UND, CC or DU would have left the WCHA without their departures.

            TV revenue is not driving this deal, neither are attendance issues or money; its all about recruiting and building brand awareness at the schools who join the new conference.

            None of the other Minnesota schools will join the new conference because they don't want to or are unable to spend the money on travel. That's straight from several WCHA sources at the Final 5.

            Sounds to me like the eight team conference will be DU, CC, Notre Dame, Boston College, Miami, North Dakota, Western Michigan & Nebraska-Omaha. Notre Dame is clearly the straw that stirs the drink in this deal.

            Why would BC join a new conference with western schools? Recruiting and of course the chance to join up with Notre Dame.

            What about travel costs? All the schools mentioned above have hockey budgets in the $2-4 million range, $140,000 in travel is a drop in the bucket [$20,000 X 7 plane trips]. DU & CC's travel costs will probably go decease as they will only need to take five conference plane trips.
            I think your proposition is extremely speculative. There is obvious concern that the WCHA will lose some it's luster when MN and UW leave. But realistically brand marketing is all about the bottom line...profit margin. The natural "knee jerk" reaction is for schools to speculate on hockey revenue projections with the departure of MN and UW, and look at financially sustainable options to generate more revenue.

            IMO this is simply revenue driven chatter and politicizing at the core by a couple outspoken schools and it's entirely premature. No corporate organizational structure is in place at this juncture to conduct the due diligence necessary to seriously consider the parameters of such a proposition much less operationalize it.

            I will be very surprised to see any conference formed like the one you mentioned in the near future. It should be interesting to see what McLeod delivers to the WCHA as notable schools that can reasonably replace the loss of MN and UW and continue to enhance the public's image of quality NCAA competition within the WCHA.

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            • #36
              Re: The end of leagues as we know?

              Originally posted by HarleyMC View Post
              I think your proposition is extremely speculative. There is obvious concern that the WCHA will lose some it's luster when MN and UW leave. But realistically brand marketing is all about the bottom line...profit margin. The natural "knee jerk" reaction is for schools to speculate on hockey revenue projections with the departure of MN and UW, and look at financially sustainable options to generate more revenue.

              IMO this is simply revenue driven chatter and politicizing at the core by a couple outspoken schools and it's entirely premature. No corporate organizational structure is in place at this juncture to conduct the due diligence necessary to seriously consider the parameters of such a proposition much less operationalize it.

              I will be very surprised to see any conference formed like the one you mentioned in the near future. It should be interesting to see what McLeod delivers to the WCHA as notable schools that can reasonably replace the loss of MN and UW and continue to enhance the public's image of quality NCAA competition within the WCHA.
              Non-profits [universities, hospitals] hire brand consultants at a proportionally higher rate than for-profit business. When it comes to education and medicine people want the best.

              Its only speculative at this juncture because no one is sure what Notre Dame will do. Once that is determined, the dominoes will fall into place. What we do know is that Notre Dame has said they will not remain in the CCHA and now North Dakota is publicly exploring leaving the WCHA. The schools involved in the breakaway conference have been conducting "due diligence" for the past six months.

              As I've said before, its not revenue that's driving this deal, its recruiting. DU, UND, BC, Miami and the others want to recruit potential first round draft picks. They believe that they will be at a disadvantage recruiting against the Big 10 schools, unless they form a strong conference.

              Clearly North Dakota and Notre Dame want to send a message to potential recruits that change is coming and they will be playing in the best hockey conference possible.
              Last edited by dggoddard; 07-03-2011, 07:48 AM.

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              • #37
                Re: The end of leagues as we know?

                Originally posted by dggoddard View Post
                As I've said before, its not revenue that's driving this deal, its recruiting. DU, UND, BC, Miami and the others want to recruit potential first round draft picks. They believe that they will be at a disadvantage recruiting against the Big 10 schools, unless they form a strong conference.
                Because Big10 schools didn't lock up the majority of so-called elite prospects before they formed their own conference? Suddenly because those schools will be in som magical super-league the other so-called elite prospects will take a pass on going to BC, Miami or UND? No kids like Jaden Schawrtz stand a chance in the BTHC era do they? I'm sure Jaden wouldn't have chosen D-III Colorado College if the Big Ten had already been formed.

                Quit pretending what it's about already. Own your pain. Admit it's all about feeling insecure your institution's perceived STATUS in the hierarchy. You'll feel better after you do. Then we can all stop this pretending about imaginary scenarios.

                And oh yeah ... you can't hide from the application of the BHHC label.

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                • #38
                  Re: The end of leagues as we know?

                  Originally posted by TigerFan86-87 View Post
                  Just as a point of clarification. Yes, Rochester is a much larger community than Bemidji or Mankato. But by the same token, there is a lot more to do in Rochester (I'm not bragging - we're not NYC or Boston or anything, but are still much larger than fine cities like Bemidji or Mankato). RIT hockey is nowhere near the # 1 attraction in town. We have our own AHL team that is the much bigger draw (especially now that the Amerks and Sabres are once again affiliated), a major league indoor lacrosse team, a minor league basketball team, etc. etc. RIT hockey has gained some ground in the general public after all the FF attention they got a couple seasons ago and a raised marketing effort, but are still primarily supported by students, staff, and alumni above all else. And with only a < 2000 seat arena, they don't need to kill themselves trying to market to many others. Nearly all games played while school is in session sell out and even the few played while students are not around come pretty close. In addition, they play one game per season at the local AHL barn and have drawn > 7000 and a sellout of > 10000 in the last two seasons. So if they tried hard enough, they could draw more from the general public. But to this point do not need to. We'll see what happens when they get the new larger arena.
                  And my point was that even though BSU basketball and football - sports that are nowhere near as popular as BSU hockey and likely closer to the 4th, 5th or 6th sporting option (behind high school and youth sports in Bemidji) can draw 105 fans in their sleep. Maybe you see it as there being "more to do" in Rochester than in Bemidji, but as I was just discussing yesterday, the stuff you can do in Bemidji is likely free or less expensive (youth sports, high school sports, ice fishing, snowmobiling, skiing, show shoeing, curling, etc. in winter, plus we have a nice symphony orchestra, and summer theatre - this perception that there is "more" to do in big cities is held by people that have never lived in small cities). I still don't see drawing .35% of your population as something to brag about. Sell out your AHL barn for RIT games every game (10,000 is 1.6% of the metro area) and then you an brag about attendance compared to BSU or Mankato.
                  Current NCAA D-I rinks I've been to:

                  AHA:
                  B1G: UMich, MSU, UMinn, Notre Dame, OSU, UWisc
                  CCHA: BSU, BG, FSU, LSSU, MSU, MTU, NMU
                  ECAC:
                  HEA: UMass
                  NCHC: Miami, UMD, UND, SCSU, WMU
                  Independant: ASU


                  Inactive: UAH, ASU, BSU, UMD, UND, NMU, Notre Dame

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                  • #39
                    Re: The end of leagues as we know?

                    So BC will recruit better when they play a bunch of western schools? Really?

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                    • #40
                      Re: The end of leagues as we know?

                      Just because they are talking doesn't mean much. The schools would be fools to not talk to each other. At the end of the day though the WCHA will be fine. As far as ND goes they would be more likely to join HE than for BC to join some western hockey conference. This new hockey conference is not going to have a crazy TV contract a la ACC football. Also BC already is getting the best local recruits in New England so they don't really have a need to join HE. I really doubt that the B10 schools are going to start snatching away all that Boston area talent.

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                      • #41
                        Re: The end of leagues as we know?

                        Originally posted by uaafanblog View Post
                        Because Big10 schools didn't lock up the majority of so-called elite prospects before they formed their own conference? Suddenly because those schools will be in som magical super-league the other so-called elite prospects will take a pass on going to BC, Miami or UND? No kids like Jaden Schawrtz stand a chance in the BTHC era do they? I'm sure Jaden wouldn't have chosen D-III Colorado College if the Big Ten had already been formed.
                        .
                        A weaker conference will be a tougher sell to high end potential recruits....that is why the remaining powers in the CCHA/WCHA
                        are in discussions about forming a "super league" in order to act as a counter to the Big 10. Hockey East is a strong conference as it currently stands...would make no sense for a B.C. to jump ship and throw its fortunes to a western based league.

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                        • #42
                          Re: The end of leagues as we know?

                          Originally posted by Red Cloud View Post
                          . Why? UND ought to consider some of the greater ramifications of such a move before they pull the trigger on this.
                          I think that Why UND and "7 other teams" are in on the discussions to form a new league. Maybe the B1G should have thought about this before they started this ball rolling.
                          Contributing Editor and College Hockey Writer at Inside Hockey
                          Eric's Twitter
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                          • #43
                            Re: The end of leagues as we know?

                            Originally posted by CHFAN222 View Post
                            Just because they are talking doesn't mean much. The schools would be fools to not talk to each other. At the end of the day though the WCHA will be fine. As far as ND goes they would be more likely to join HE than for BC to join some western hockey conference...
                            Doesn't sound like that is going to happen...
                            Though rumors persist about a Hockey East team also being involved in the talks, league commissioner Joe Bertagna said he has “no reason to believe those reports.”

                            WCHA commissioner Bruce McLeod said he’s aware of the ongoing discussion about the new conference.

                            Asked whether he’s concerned about losing UND and others, McLeod said: “I’m concerned about every scenario and this is not the first. I get concerned about being on top of things the best I can, trying to keep the rest of the league informed of what’s going on. It’s a moving target right now. It changes week to week. I can’t tell the individual institutions what to do.”
                            Contributing Editor and College Hockey Writer at Inside Hockey
                            Eric's Twitter
                            The Sin Bin The Sports Daily

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                            • #44
                              Re: The end of leagues as we know?

                              Originally posted by Dude Love View Post
                              UMD just won the NCAA Title. Fail.

                              We can just team up with Northern, Western, Ferris, etc. to fill out one big conference. Also, I should have known that UND would be the ones to go out and try to ruin hockey.
                              There are seven other schools in this scenario that are looking to form a conference I would blame the BTHC farce for this mess.
                              Contributing Editor and College Hockey Writer at Inside Hockey
                              Eric's Twitter
                              The Sin Bin The Sports Daily

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                              • #45
                                Re: The end of leagues as we know?

                                Originally posted by Goon View Post
                                Doesn't sound like that is going to happen...
                                I'm starting to wonder how many of these rumors originate on these boards.
                                BS UML '04, PhD UConn '09

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