Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"

[Union93]

Re: Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"

This is the most ridiculous pile of CRAP I have ever read on any Union thread. End of story.

[unionbob]

Re: Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"

has anyone heard anything about next seasons schedule....I know many schools start releasing theirs but havent heard anything about Unions

[ADK11]

Re: Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"

WooHooo!!! We've made the big time!! Union doesn't make it to the Frozen 4 and we're ready to start a "Time to fire Nate" thread

But more seriously, while I don't particularly agree with OsecnUC's comments on the coaching, have to agree that the big offseason speculation revolves around what it will take for Union to win more of these big games.

My take on it is pretty simple.. U needs to play a tougher schedule and get more experience playing against true top-end teams. I know some folks in the ECAC will disagree with this, but IMO the ECAC was significantly weaker than the other 3 "big" conferences this season and Union's schedule compounded this by having 7 games against AHA teams. I thought the big difference between UMD and Union/Yale last weekend was that the Bulldogs from the W had more poise and stayed fundamentally sound even when things got tough. Union just never looked totally confident or in sync right from the get go. UMD on the other hand stayed relatively calm even though the ice was crappy, the reffing was terrible and they were playing far from home in front of a pro ECAC crowd. I think they got this way from playing in the toughest league in the country. By my count I would say UMD had over 20 games against top teams. As for Union, I would count 5; UMD obviously and the 2 against Yale & WMU.

Personally, I don't think confidence in big games is something you can coach, it only comes from experience and players being confident in those situations. As for Union's chances of getting to that point, I'm actually more confident after seeing last weekend. I thought Union and UMD play very similar styles, with an emphasis on fundamentally sound defense, good special teams and attention to what Leaman has preached as "the little things" - winning faceoffs, blocking shots, finishing checks, getting in the passing lanes, etc. Unfortunately, UMD did all of these things just a little better (or in the case of the PP, much better) than U and "made their bounces" - but I'm encouraged that U is on the right track and will continue to improve. Hopefully the rumors of a trip to Denver next season are true and U's increased national rep will eventually result in some tougher OOC games.. and would also be nice for Cornell, RPI, Clarkson, SLU, etc. to raise their games a notch or two and add more high end depth to the ECAC schedule.

[Ralph Baer]

Re: Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"

As far as the Colgate series is concerned, I think the point was that after winning the first game we had them by the throat and let them get away. We should have crushed them and moved on and not been in a position where a bounce here or there or a fluke goal scuttled the series. I know it's a lot easier to say than do...just saying is all.

Union shouldn't even have had the opportunity to lose to Colgate.

[Wholin1]

Re: Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"

Union shouldn't even have had the opportunity to lose to Colgate.

Ralph, times 2!

I don't think any of these comments, at least not mine, were meant as a "fire Leaman" thread, far from it. It shows how far he has brought this program that we can now b***ch about failure to win an NCAA game of all things. In any event his status could be moot as the rumor mill continues to swirl.

UMD was a formidable opponent in my view and we played an excellent defensive game. We just couldn't get untracked offensively or on the PP and none of the hockey breaks went our way. One of our forwards commenting through his father said that the UMD D corps was the fastest they faced all season, and this plays directly into ADK's comments. It would help a lot if we could upgrade our OOC schedule. The problem is few of the perennial powers are willing to travel to Schenectady. That leaves us largely only with expensive travel alternatives unless we can get more Hockey East opponents and IF top programs will schedule us. I have heard that CC and Denver may be on next year's schedule and that Western Michigan will be coming in as well.

[sshablak]

Re: Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"

You guys are tough.....wow !!!

[Wholin1]

Re: Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"

You guys are tough.....wow !!!

I guess it might look that way , I guess this is just new territory for us.

[Miami Ice]

Re: Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"

Nate Leaman has done a phenomenal job with the resources or lack thereof at his disposal. He deserves to be the Penrose winner. Any denigration of him or his team is totally misplaced. One wonders how many of the posts have been written by former athletes.

[DutchFace]

Re: Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"

Any comments about the coach's performance is justified and open to debate, imo. And healthy. Expecting to win is a good thing, and questioning whether the man at the helm is the right man to take the program "to the next level" is a natural question.

I agree that Union needs to play a tougher schedule, and I am hoping the NCAA birth and national recognition makes getting games with bigger names easier to achieve.

I was at the games in CT watching both teams for the first time. No idea if it was a bad day at the office for U or not but it was clear that the UMD PP was much more skilled. Union had 9 chances overall but only had great chances early on - many of the PP were sloppy. On the other hand, UMD looked dangerous and more skilled on the PP from the start, and their 2nd PP goal was a thing of beauty. They then repeated the feat the next night vs. Yale when they scored a PP dagger just 7 seconds into the major PP.

In the end, we dont have a large enough sample size at the NCAA tournament level to judge the coach. Its not unreasonable to chalk up the UMD game to a learning experience, and all of us who have watched any sport know that teams go through a learning curve as the program grows. BUT that being said its pretty simple in my book:

Union needs better players. Better players will win more. They will compete outside the ECAC better. And they will make the coach better. Nobody wins without talent, and while Union surely has some good players they need better ones. The goalie is often held up as the best Union player - or at least the most talented and with the brightest future. But he was unimpressive to me in the post-season, and watching the other regional games I saw great performances from a number of goalies that looked as good or better - specifically from Notre Dame, Denver, etc.

Union needs to empower the coach, create an atmosphere of winning with great facilities, etc. and THEN if we cant get over the hump, well, its time to take a hard look.

Until then, its time to reserve judgement - and to help Coach Nate get great players to U!

[ADK11]

Re: Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"

While I think its great to have heightened expectations, I also think there needs to be a reality check here.. IMO Union IS at the next level or at least is at the level that is realistically as high as can be expected. To truly compete with the North Dakotas, BCs and Michigans of college hockey you need big financial resources, athletic scholarships, and pretty low academic admission standards. Union will never go there.. its just not what Union or the ECAC are all about. As a result U will never consistently attract true blue chip recruits (i.e. top NHL draft choice players). Not saying that U can't parlay their recent success into attracting some slightly better recruits, but the current level of quality is quite sufficient in my book. I also think it is very important that the players are good students and fit-in well with the student body/college community as a whole. A lot of blue-chippers really don't care for education or the things that a place like Union has to offer, and I don't think anyone associated with the program wants to see that.

What Union can hope for is to find very good players that work hard and develop into a deep cohesive team that, with a little luck, can win an ECAC championship and occasionally make some noise in the NCAAs. I'd say we are basically there.. and with another good recruiting class coming next fall I think the trend will continue.

As for the job that Leaman & the coaches are doing, I think this year's team was the most talented U has ever had and the freshman class was also the best in team history. By my count, that is 4 straight seasons of improvement.. pretty darn good I"d say. It was very disappointing to lose in the ECACs and I think that definitely did not help U being game ready & in game shape last Friday, but I can live with that and hope for better things next year.

[rdf8585]

Re: Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"

I can't believe anyone would be doubting Leaman. If he goes elsewhere, just wait. You don't know what you got til it's gone.

[LynahFan]

Re: Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"

and would also be nice for Cornell, RPI, Clarkson, SLU, etc. to raise their games a notch or two and add more high end depth to the ECAC schedule.

Now I've seen everything. Ah, what the heck - on behalf of all Cornell fans, I apologize that we've been dragging the rest of the ECAC down for the last 10 years.

[Ralph Baer]

Re: Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"

Now I've seen everything. Ah, what the heck - on behalf of all Cornell fans, I apologize that we've been dragging the rest of the ECAC down for the last 10 years.

It may be the single dumbest and apparently most ill-informed statement ever made by an ECAC fan on USCHO, and I have been reading USCHO since it started. I was going to comment on it yesterday morning, but decided that I shouldn't because it was 2 AM and perhaps I had misread it or it was tongue-in-cheek. Then later in the day I forgot about it. To think that for years RPI fans felt that we were at a disadvantage because we had Union as a travel partner. Well, whatever goes around comes around.

ADK is correct that the ECAC suffers because of a relatively low average competition level. If it is a concern of Union, then the first thing that the school should do is to increase the level of its OOC games. ECAC schools have in recent years gotten better players -- just not enough of them per team. League play will improve, but it takes time, and I suspect by then Union will be dragging the league down again.

[sshablak]

Re: Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"

Am I imagining what I'm reading here ?? What a disgrace !

[ADK11]

Re: Union Hockey 2011 Off Season Thread-"Union, We've Paid Our Dues"

It may be the single dumbest and apparently most ill-informed statement ever made by an ECAC fan on USCHO, and I have been reading USCHO since it started. I was going to comment on it yesterday morning, but decided that I shouldn't because it was 2 AM and perhaps I had misread it or it was tongue-in-cheek. Then later in the day I forgot about it. To think that for years RPI fans felt that we were at a disadvantage because we had Union as a travel partner. Well, whatever goes around comes around.

ADK is correct that the ECAC suffers because of a relatively low average competition level. If it is a concern of Union, then the first thing that the school should do is to increase the level of its OOC games. ECAC schools have in recent years gotten better players -- just not enough of them per team. League play will improve, but it takes time, and I suspect by then Union will be dragging the league down again.

Hmmm.. obviously I didn't choose my words very well there did I.. probably what I get for posting late at night . Apologies to anyone I offended and was certainly not how I intended it to come out.

The point I was trying to make is that it has been quite some time since the ECAC has had 4-5 national top-end teams in the same season, and this hurts not only the league strength-of-schedule but also in being prepared for the NCAA tournament. Cornell, RPI, Clarkson etc. probably know this better than anyone given how weak other teams in the league have been in the last 10-15 years.. with Union being a prime offender. Strong OOC schedules do help, but having 3-4 top 10 teams and another 3-4 in the top 25 would help even more. The "big 3" leagues get most of their SOS from playing each other in league games and the ECAC needs to get to that level too. The reason I listed those 4 programs (and could include Harvard too) is that they have all historically been the bellweather programs in ECAC and if Yale, Union and say Princeton can join them as elite programs, then the league may lose its EZAC reputation and get somewhere in the NCAAs. My saying that these programs need to improve was a poor choice of words and certainly unfair to Cornell & RPI based on even this past season's results.. my bad.