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RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

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  • Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

    Originally posted by HighlanderRPI View Post
    Public Reputation is a very telling sign of inner character - not the sole barometer, but very telling - and what the committee has to go on given they don't personally know him presumably (if they all do, that may explain why he's in the final 3....)

    "At one point in his life"??! come-on, you make it sound like he made a mistake 25 years ago instead of the roughly one year (give or take) it actually is
    Normally, I would totally agree with you and DrD. but from what I heard, he sat out a year and came back and cleaned up his act this year. From what I heard on the broadcasts, he is almost certain to be playing in the NHL soon.
    Considering that, he could easily have gone on to his professional career, but chose to stick with his college team and give them their best chance at a national title. Choosing to play in college for his team and school over taking a boat load of cash shows some character. At least in my opinion. I don't like what he did, but he seems to have grown up a lot since his mistakes. JMO
    Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
    Benjamin Franklin
    The harder I practice, the luckier I get.
    Gary Player

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    • Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

      Originally posted by DrDemento View Post
      I disagree strongly-perhaps on ice performance in previous years is wiped off the map-but character is not. They should either remove that from the 4 criteria or change the award and call it the Best College Hockey Player of the Year Award. This does not come up every year but it is an issue that has arisen in the past. Awards have been given based solely on a single year's on ice performance. I am not saying that should not be an award-just simply that it should not be considered the Hobey Baker Award which has as it's criteria more than simply goals and assists in one year.
      English really has to bring back the subjunctive mood. I used the word "could". I was hypothesizing; not saying that it was necessarily my opinion.
      sigpic

      Let's Go 'Tute!

      Maxed out at 2,147,483,647 at 10:00 AM EDT 9/17/07.

      2012 Poser Of The Year

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      • Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

        I was contemplating Frattin being part of the Hobey Hat Trick, and I have a bit of a different perspective on this (although I think it matches that of EHF). When Frattin was arrested and his scholarship removed, he could have went to Major Junior or Europe. Instead, he decided to work hard at trying to be reinstated with the team on his own dime. If anything, that is showing character and devotion towards college hockey. Yes, Frattin made a mistake in life. Who hasn't? The true showing of your character is how you bounce back from those mistakes.

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        • Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

          Originally posted by HighlanderRPI View Post
          X-Posted from the Hobey Hat Trick thread where I posted to bait the Sioux fans

          Open letter to Hobey Baker Committee:

          Seems you left the part out of Matt Frattin's bio where he was arrested for drunk driving and blowing a 0.12 on the brethalyzer. Oh but he wasn't convicted? Sometimes the justice system is a massive failure - just look at the OJ Simpson case. Does that mean OJ has Character too in the eyes of the Hobey Baker foundation?

          Oh, you forgot his second arrest that he was convicted on in a court of law in NoDak as well. What a winner.

          Really shows a lot of character to overlook past failures because it's convenient rather than looking at the total athlete's career. He could have killed someone but you'll probably still give him the Hobey - because ****, he can shoot the puck so who cares if he got drunk and drove around. I guess it's cool when athletes do it.

          Signed - HighlanderRPI

          PS - better hook up a generator to ol' Hobey - make some money off all that spinning, given the rising energy prices

          PPS - I'm sure some NoDak homers will say I'm sore because RPI lost to NoDak, but I would be saying this regardless - it's indefensible to drive drunk, sorry
          This is bull. I have 2 close friends who had DUI convictions in their 20's. Both outstanding gentlemen now. 20 year olds don't always make great decisions. One mistake does not a bad person make. Kids drink beer and sometimes they make bad decisions. I'm willing to bet the percentage of people who ever operated a car at .12 at some point in their lives is at least 1 in 10 and probably much higher. Let the kid live his life.

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          • Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

            Originally posted by Red Cloud View Post
            Then you're blind. He didn't say "perfect," meathead, he said "vastly improving," and even a toddler could see the difference between the team now and when he took it over.
            The difference in resources for the program needed to, and have changed as well....thanks to Shirley. The addition of a hockey minded AD has also helped
            Last edited by sk8tronthepond; 03-31-2011, 09:15 AM.
            I've been lost since 1989. I got a breakaway on a river and have been skating ever since!

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            • Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

              Originally posted by jmhusker View Post
              This is bull. I have 2 close friends who had DUI convictions in their 20's. Both outstanding gentlemen now. 20 year olds don't always make great decisions. One mistake does not a bad person make. Kids drink beer and sometimes they make bad decisions. I'm willing to bet the percentage of people who ever operated a car at .12 at some point in their lives is at least 1 in 10 and probably much higher. Let the kid live his life.
              You are correct, but that doesn't address the character issue regarding the Hobey Baker Award. He showed poor character in those instances as did most of us when getting behind the wheel after a night of drinking.
              The fact that he addressed his issue and decided to stay in school and help his team be the best that it can be is what turns around the character issue for me.
              As for his on ice performance, you can't beat his numbers.
              Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
              Benjamin Franklin
              The harder I practice, the luckier I get.
              Gary Player

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              • Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

                I think that the real Hobey question is why did Bill Watson beat out Adam Oates?
                sigpic

                Let's Go 'Tute!

                Maxed out at 2,147,483,647 at 10:00 AM EDT 9/17/07.

                2012 Poser Of The Year

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                • Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

                  Good morning, everyone. Quick self-promotion note: I'm going to be on with Rodger Wyland and Ken Schott on AM 980 wrapping up the RPI season at about 11:15 or so, give or take a few minutes.

                  http://www.foxsports980.com/main.html
                  Without A Peer - Full coverage of RPI Men's and Women's Hockey, with a twist of lemon.

                  Without A Peer live tweets every RPI hockey game, men's and women's. Follow us at @without_a_peer on Twitter.

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                  • Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

                    Originally posted by Ralph Baer View Post
                    I think that the real Hobey question is why did Bill Watson beat out Adam Oates?
                    Don't even begin to get me started on that!
                    Take the shortest distance to the puck and arrive in ill humor

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                    • Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

                      Originally posted by jmhusker View Post
                      This is bull. I have 2 close friends who had DUI convictions in their 20's. Both outstanding gentlemen now. 20 year olds don't always make great decisions. One mistake does not a bad person make. Kids drink beer and sometimes they make bad decisions. I'm willing to bet the percentage of people who ever operated a car at .12 at some point in their lives is at least 1 in 10 and probably much higher. Let the kid live his life.
                      Valid point-and he should be allowed to live his life. Just not by winning this award. Give him all the other accolades due him-he is, from what I saw, a fantastic hockey player and will do well at the NHL level. Deserving of an award like the Hobey? I just don't think so-but i have felt this way about several of the previous awards given. As usual-just an opinion.
                      Take the shortest distance to the puck and arrive in ill humor

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                      • Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

                        Originally posted by DrDemento View Post
                        I disagree strongly-perhaps on ice performance in previous years is wiped off the map-but character is not.
                        Ah, and this is the crux of the debate, as I understand it.

                        Without taking either side, it seems that some people are saying that a person with character would not have driven drunk to begin with; while other people are saying that it takes character to own up to a mistake and do what it takes to make things right. Mr. Frattin did work hard to reform and make amends if I understand the assertions made by his supporters.
                        "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

                        "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

                        "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

                        "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

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                        • Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

                          Originally posted by jmhusker View Post
                          This is bull. I have 2 close friends who had DUI convictions in their 20's. Both outstanding gentlemen now. 20 year olds don't always make great decisions. One mistake does not a bad person make. Kids drink beer and sometimes they make bad decisions. I'm willing to bet the percentage of people who ever operated a car at .12 at some point in their lives is at least 1 in 10 and probably much higher. Let the kid live his life.
                          In their 20's - how old are they now? I'm certain they weren't being hoisted up on a pedestal for a character-based award the year after the convictions. Sorry, my opinion is pretty strong here - we shouldn't so quickly forgive such severe transgressions with accolades. And Frattin has more than one "mistake" - TWO arrests, AND a league suspension after that.

                          I don't really want to debate that driving drunk being a "mistake" - it's a conscious choice. It's not "Oops I got behind the wheel of a car after having 4 or 6 beers, put the key in the ignition, started it, put it in drive..." that's not a mistake - poor decision making, yes. I'm glad your friends have learned from their poor choices - but to say Frattin has erased his MULTIPLE mistakes in one years work is of no comparison, frankly, in my mind

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                          • Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

                            Hobey Baker Award Criteria
                            1. Candidates must exhibit strength of character both on and off the ice.

                            2. Candidates must contribute to the integrity of the team and display outstanding skills in all phases of the game.

                            3. Consideration should be given to scholastic achievement and sportmanship.

                            4. Candidates must comply with all NCAA rules: be full time students in an accredited NCAA college or university; and complete 50% or more of the season.

                            Look at the number 1 Criteria. Also under Hobey Baker on the site is says "Character Builds Excellence". Character (and integrity) is/are a huge piece of this award.

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                            • Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

                              Originally posted by IMO View Post
                              Hobey Baker Award Criteria
                              1. Candidates must exhibit strength of character both on and off the ice.

                              2. Candidates must contribute to the integrity of the team and display outstanding skills in all phases of the game.

                              3. Consideration should be given to scholastic achievement and sportmanship.

                              4. Candidates must comply with all NCAA rules: be full time students in an accredited NCAA college or university; and complete 50% or more of the season.

                              Look at the number 1 Criteria. Also under Hobey Baker on the site is says "Character Builds Excellence". Character (and integrity) is/are a huge piece of this award.
                              Clearly, the committee that votes for this award felt that Frattin had very strong character this season. Otherwise, he would not have been in the Hat Trick.

                              SJHovey said it best over on the Hobey Hat Trick thread...

                              Originally posted by SJHovey
                              If any of the 3 finalists win, I'll be fine with that. They are all clearly deserving, as were the other seven who weren't named to the Hat Trick. Pretty hard to argue that Atkinson, Miele or Frattin aren't among the best in all of college hockey this year.

                              I suspect if Matt Frattin doesn't win, and if you even told him it was because of his off-ice events of 2 years ago and the follow up suspension, the Matt Frattin who returned, and who we've had the pleasure of watching for the last 1 1/2 seasons would be ok with that. I bet he'd be the first to tell you that he made some mistakes, and he has to learn (and has learned) to live with the consequences of those mistakes.

                              If that's the case, and everything I've seen and heard this year causes me to believe it so, then that change in his character and maturity is going to serve him far better during the remainder of his life than some award and trophy.
                              North Dakota
                              National Champions: 1959, 1963, 1980, 1982, 1987, 1997, 2000, 2016

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                              • Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011: There Will be a Title Here Next Season

                                Originally posted by Red Cloud View Post
                                Then you're blind. He didn't say "perfect," meathead, he said "vastly improving," and even a toddler could see the difference between the team now and when he took it over.
                                Really and what would the "difference now" be genius? That they get worse at the end of the season when every other team gets better. The object is to get better at the end of the season not worse get it? It is not a hard concept, even for you."
                                Are you stalking me?

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