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It's Realignment time, it's realignment time! Make it work

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  • #61
    Agreed that we can (and do) work together, but I think the issue is getting the rest of the WCHA on board. But if such a move were to happen, UAA would have to lead the charge within the WCHA.

    And if UAA paved the way for us into the WCHA, I would gladly buy every Seawolf on this board a beer the next time I'm in Anchorage. So that should be enough incentive right there.

    Originally posted by Jimjamesak View Post
    I think recent history has shown the two schools are able to work together, at least on items of mutual interest. I wouldn't be surprised if something is being discussed already. I've gotten the feeling that UAF has been ready to bail on the CCHA for a while, having to pay 25 airline tickets per is a drain. I could see them trying to work something out.

    I don't see UAA leaving the WCHA at this point, there's no viable option right now.
    “We offer no apology for our location at 64 51’21’’ north latitude. We are building for the future and we are confident that well directed effort and education are the forces which make progress possible”

    —UA President Charles E. Bunnell, 1925

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    • #62
      Re: It's Realignment time, it's realignment time! Make it work

      Originally posted by Rover View Post
      I have three goals in mind: 1) preserve all 6 conferences (CCHA and AHA at most risk, WCHA, ECAC, HE and Big Ten Network conference should be fine). 2) Allow for expansion, and 3) get some geographic balance wherever possible.

      So, first the easy way.

      Leave WCHA, HE, ECAC as is. WCHA has still has several anchor teams and will have a couple of spaces for expansion down the road although I have no schools in mind for that right now. CCHA keeps two anchor schools (ND and Miami) who should rather be big fish in small pond instead of competing against North Dakota, Denver, etc for league titles every year. Move Mercyhurst and Robert Morris over to conference which still allows expansion (Pitt?) and lines up well geographically. AHA takes independent Alabama-Huntsville and tries to convince Navy to join up. AHA keeps Air Force, Niagara, etc. This way both CCHA and AHA are strengthened.

      OR: Service academies go CCHA and have an opening for possible Navy program.

      More complicated:

      Alaska and Air Force go to WHCA which works better geographically (but prevents any new programs from joining). CCHA still takes RMU and Mercyhurst as well as Niagara and tried to convice one other "name" program to join. 7 team AHA takes Alabama-Huntsville and has room for the next 4 programs that make the leap (again Navy, McDonalds U, etc). While this doesn't leave the AHA in great shape, it does open up some slots for a quicker expansion as the AHA is a natural landing spot for a new program.
      Why are you trying to shoehorn Huntsville into Atlantic hockey while all the while having AHA drop a few of its westernmost and closest schools to Alabama? The Eastern schools of the AHA are not going to like losing those long roadies to Erie and Buffalo, and have it replaced with a trip to Alabama.
      bueller: Why is the sunset good? Why are boobs good? Why does Positrack work? Why does Ferris lose on the road and play dead at home?

      It just happens.


      nmupiccdiva: I'm sorry I missed you this weekend! I thought I saw you at the football game, but I didn't want to go up to a complete stranger and ask "are you Monster?" and have it not be you!

      leswp1: you need the Monster to fix you

      Life is active, find Balance!massage therapy Ann Arbor

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      • #63
        Re: It's Realignment time, it's realignment time! Make it work

        New WCHA for what it is worth: Miami and Notre Dame go to Hockey East

        Great Lakes Division:
        NMU
        LSSU
        MTU
        Ferris State
        Western Michigan
        Bowling Green State

        Iron Range Division or Great Plains
        Minn. Duluth
        St. Cloud
        Bemidji St.
        Minn. State
        UND

        Far West or Mountain Division:
        UNO
        CC
        Denver
        Alaska
        Alaska Fairbanks


        WCHA with Miami and Notre Dame:

        Central Division
        LSSU
        Ferris State
        Western Michigan
        Bowling Green State
        Miami
        Notre Dame

        Iron Range Division
        Minn. Duluth
        St. Cloud
        Bemidji St.
        Minn. State
        NMU
        MTU

        Far West or Mountain Division:
        UND
        CC
        Denver
        Alaska
        Alaska Fairbanks
        UNO
        Last edited by MOJO; 03-23-2011, 04:58 PM.

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        • #64
          Re: It's Realignment time, it's realignment time! Make it work

          Originally posted by MOJO View Post
          New WCHA for what it is worth: Miami and Notre Dame go to Hockey East

          Great Lakes Division:
          NMU
          LSSU
          MTU
          Ferris State
          Western Michigan
          Bowling Green State

          Iron Range Division or Great Plains
          Minn. Duluth
          St. Cloud
          Bemidji St.
          Minn. State
          UND

          Far West or Mountain Division:
          UNO
          CC
          Denver
          Alaska
          Alaska Fairbanks

          ...
          You forgot the Sioux in the top one. Unless you are assuming they will be an independent that automatically gets into the tournament every year

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          • #65
            Re: It's Realignment time, it's realignment time! Make it work

            Originally posted by MOJO View Post
            WCHA with Miami and Notre Dame:

            Central Division
            LSSU
            Ferris State
            Western Michigan
            Bowling Green State
            Miami
            Notre Dame

            Iron Range Division
            Minn. Duluth
            St. Cloud
            Bemidji St.
            Minn. State
            NMU
            MTU

            Far West or Mountain Division:
            UND
            CC
            Denver
            Alaska
            Alaska Fairbanks
            UNO
            So, ummmm.... how would the scheduling work for that? play everybody in your division home and home? thats 20 games right there. Then there's the mess of figuring out how many games you can play against the other division members. You might be better off breaking them down into pods of 4, with a pod of 2 for the Alaska schools as most schools would want to get up there often in conference play.

            So, Alaska _airbanks and Alaska-Anchorage in pod one or the Alaska Pod

            Pod 2 or the West Pod
            Denver
            CC
            UND
            UNO

            Pod 3 or the Minnesota Pod
            Minn. Duluth
            St. Cloud
            Bemidji St.
            Minn. State

            Pod 4 or the Michigan Pod or maybe GLIAC Pod
            MTU
            NMU
            LSSU
            Ferris

            Pod 5 or the Southern Pod
            WMU
            Norte Dame
            BGSU
            Miami

            Home and homes with your pod members, which is a grand total of 6 games, and then one could more easily figure out a way to balence out the schedule so that everybody would see everybody over several years.
            bueller: Why is the sunset good? Why are boobs good? Why does Positrack work? Why does Ferris lose on the road and play dead at home?

            It just happens.


            nmupiccdiva: I'm sorry I missed you this weekend! I thought I saw you at the football game, but I didn't want to go up to a complete stranger and ask "are you Monster?" and have it not be you!

            leswp1: you need the Monster to fix you

            Life is active, find Balance!massage therapy Ann Arbor

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: It's Realignment time, it's realignment time! Make it work

              Originally posted by bigmrg74 View Post
              Why are you trying to shoehorn Huntsville into Atlantic hockey while all the while having AHA drop a few of its westernmost and closest schools to Alabama? The Eastern schools of the AHA are not going to like losing those long roadies to Erie and Buffalo, and have it replaced with a trip to Alabama.
              If I were playing hockey during the winter, I'd much rather go to Alabama than the Erie/Buffalo area.

              However, I'm trying to find a home for a school that isn't a good fit anywhere geographically but is supporting the sport of hockey so they deserve some considerations. IF Navy jumped into D-1, they might be the closest school to them.

              Regarding the moves to CCHA, those schools I believe could compete in their new conference, and they seem to be committed to their programs which is going to be real important in a decimated CCHA (for example you wouldn't move UConn or Holy Cross to a conference in need of strong members to help sustain it). Also there's a natural fit for non-conference games with RMU-Penn St-Mercyhurst. All in all I'm trying to balance the benefits of one conference without destroying the other which is a tricky balance. The CCHA and the AHA would benefit IMHO from getting both Pitt and Navy to pick up the sport which I've tried to leave open spots in each conference for them to slide into.
              Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

              Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

              "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

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              • #67
                Re: It's Realignment time, it's realignment time! Make it work

                The thing is, the way the AHA is set up now, it makes some sense. Sure you can complain about the playoffs, but as far as the two pods go, they are pretty tightly connected geographically. Obvioulsy Air Force is the outlier, but with that exception, everybody is within 4-5 hours of everyone else in their "pod." Why is that important? Well for one thing it costs less to get to you opponent. But it also means you can play home and home games on a given weekend, or can arrange a schedule so you can play two opponents on a particular trip. You can arrange a travel partner system if you want. You can develop rivalries with neighbors. Canisius and Niagara, UCONN-Sacred Heart and AIC (UCONN played its first varsity game against AIC, AIC has played at the opening of its new arena and has played them more than any other team) It gives you all sorts of flexibility. I think the AHA has a fairly solid setup right now. I guess I'd prefer a true East-West arrangement. I think that would work pretty well for the playoffs, too, though I'd play 1E-2W and 1W-2E. in the semis. But bottom line is that I think the AHA as currently structured works pretty well. I'm not sure why we'd want to add Huntsville at this point. Adn I'm guessing Niagara, Robert Morris, and Mercyhurst are less likely to want to leave than some of their fans might suggest. The first two have been through the realighnment stuff before with the CHA and I suspect they might very well be happy to stay put in a pretty stable situation ofr a while. The Mercyhurst coach seems to want to move, but I'm not usre his view reflects the views of the administration. Besides that, the rest of the league seems to have caught up with the lakers in recent years. They hardly dominate anymore.

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                • #68
                  Re: It's Realignment time, it's realignment time! Make it work

                  Seriously people, the only team that is joining is Penn State, and we all know where they're going. Talking about schools joining when they haven't expressed serious interest is just plain stupid.

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                  • #69
                    Re: It's Realignment time, it's realignment time! Make it work

                    Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
                    Seriously people, the only team that is joining is Penn State, and we all know where they're going. Talking about schools joining when they haven't expressed serious interest is just plain stupid.
                    I don't agree. A huge problem for college hockey expansion, be it a large school or a small one, was no room in the conferences to join. WCHA, AHA and ECAC were maxed out and HE will not expand at all unless somewhere down the road URI jumps up and the grab UConn to complete the 6 state schools in New England playing the sport. If you have no conference to go to and therefore don't know who you'd be playing to guage fan interest, etc why would a school put in the time, effort and $$$ to make the leap?

                    Now that there is room for expansion, it makes sense to focus on the schools who've either made noise or have the facilities (again I'll mention URI and Navy but I'm sure there are other smaller schools out there). The sport should grow, because there's no guarantee that the schools playing now will always maintain their programs (BGSU, Bentley, AIC, etc etc). For years all I read out here was the certainly that the Big Ten Hockey Conference would never happen in our lifetimes, that Penn St would never play D1 hockey and how Joe Paterno wouldn't allow hockey at PSU. All of those turned out to be false, and I don't think some planning ahead is necessarily a bad thing.
                    Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                    Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                    "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: It's Realignment time, it's realignment time! Make it work

                      Originally posted by Rover View Post
                      I don't agree. A huge problem for college hockey expansion, be it a large school or a small one, was no room in the conferences to join. WCHA, AHA and ECAC were maxed out and HE will not expand at all unless somewhere down the road URI jumps up and the grab UConn to complete the 6 state schools in New England playing the sport. If you have no conference to go to and therefore don't know who you'd be playing to guage fan interest, etc why would a school put in the time, effort and $$$ to make the leap?

                      Now that there is room for expansion, it makes sense to focus on the schools who've either made noise or have the facilities (again I'll mention URI and Navy but I'm sure there are other smaller schools out there). The sport should grow, because there's no guarantee that the schools playing now will always maintain their programs (BGSU, Bentley, AIC, etc etc). For years all I read out here was the certainly that the Big Ten Hockey Conference would never happen in our lifetimes, that Penn St would never play D1 hockey and how Joe Paterno wouldn't allow hockey at PSU. All of those turned out to be false, and I don't think some planning ahead is necessarily a bad thing.
                      If we're talking about re-organizing conferences to allow for potential future expansion, that's cool. However, some posters are specifically calling out schools or even adjusting conferences to allow for specific schools to get in, especially when they haven't come out and said, "We are starting varsity hockey." The only school that has done that is Penn State. Therefore, any sort of molding to guess at which schools would come in doesn't make sense at all.

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                      • #71
                        Re: It's Realignment time, it's realignment time! Make it work

                        Originally posted by Rover View Post
                        I don't agree. A huge problem for college hockey expansion, be it a large school or a small one, was no room in the conferences to join.
                        I sincerely doubt that actually stopped anyone. Wayne State and Kennesaw State claimed it, but I think the main reason is "hockey is expensive".
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                        • #72
                          Re: It's Realignment time, it's realignment time! Make it work

                          Originally posted by Rhett View Post
                          I sincerely doubt that actually stopped anyone. Wayne State and Kennesaw State claimed it, but I think the main reason is "hockey is expensive".
                          Without any inside knowledge, I think it makes sense. If you have a conference it has to help in getting the program off the ground. If you're an independent who do you schedule to play all year? Hockey is expensive, and eliminating uncertainly would presumably be beneficial. Say in the near future I'm the AD of Random University and I want to go D-1 but it will cost some up front money. So I go to the money grubbing unversity President and say "I can get us into a conference that will guarantee us playing hockey schools like Minny, Notre Dame, etc etc - think of the exposure" or I could say "well, I don't know who we'll be playing but I know fellow independent Alabama-Huntsville has plenty of open dates on their schedule. Oh and by the way there's no hope of us playing in a post season tournament either". I'm in no way saying this is the only factor, nor the deciding one, but its a stretch for me to believe it has no significant impact.
                          Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                          Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                          "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Rhett View Post
                            I sincerely doubt that actually stopped anyone. Wayne State and Kennesaw State claimed it, but I think the main reason is "hockey is expensive".
                            The problem with the CHA was that it was too spread out. It had teams from northern Minnesota to Colorado to Detroit to Buffalo to the Hudson Valley to Alabama with very few teams in between. Lack of any close road games is what caused the CHA to fold.
                            bueller: Why is the sunset good? Why are boobs good? Why does Positrack work? Why does Ferris lose on the road and play dead at home?

                            It just happens.


                            nmupiccdiva: I'm sorry I missed you this weekend! I thought I saw you at the football game, but I didn't want to go up to a complete stranger and ask "are you Monster?" and have it not be you!

                            leswp1: you need the Monster to fix you

                            Life is active, find Balance!massage therapy Ann Arbor

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: It's Realignment time, it's realignment time! Make it work

                              Maybe I've taken a dose of the Crazy or missed the boat on this, but what would be the problem with the conferences continuing on with their current members after the BTHC schools split? It's business as usual in HEA, AHA and ECAC. Big 10 could have an interlocking schedule with CCHA if need be. Nobody HAS to take Huntsville just because they're available.

                              I guess I could see the possibility of the two western most AHA schools moving to the CCHA and having the two conferences at an even 10 (even after RM just moved to the AHA), but other than that I sincerely doubt we'll see any changes in the coming years.
                              Last edited by HungryHungryHuskies; 03-24-2011, 04:51 PM.
                              On Jamie Oleksiak:

                              Originally posted by Hokydad
                              If he comes next year he will be eaten alive. Zero chance of success in Hockey East next year

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                              • #75
                                Re: It's Realignment time, it's realignment time! Make it work

                                The impediments to 20 new college hockey teams are start up costs and Title IX. Short of some more $90 million payouts to schools that simultaneously cover both the building of an arena and the start up of a matching women's hockey team, there's not going to be a sudden surge of schools saying "Wow, there's room in the WCHA, CCHA and (if we're a large midwestern state university), Big Ten! Let's start a hockey team!" And despite Paul Kelly's dreams, the PAC-12 isn't going to get together next summer and decided to pull half a dozen of their teams to D1, since doing it piecemeal piles on travel costs to the startup costs/Title IX.

                                Finding a conference was probably about 8th on the list of worries when considering hockey. There's still all the other issues.
                                "I went over the facts in my head, and admired how much uglier the situation had just become. Over the years I've learned that ignorance is more than just bliss. It's freaking orgasmic ecstasy".- Harry Dresden, Blood Rites


                                Western Michigan Bronco Hockey- 2012 Mason Cup Champions

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