It's Realignment time, it's realignment time! Make it work

[Jim]

Re: It's Realignment time, it's realignment time! Make it work

The thing is, the way the AHA is set up now, it makes some sense. Sure you can complain about the playoffs, but as far as the two pods go, they are pretty tightly connected geographically. Obvioulsy Air Force is the outlier, but with that exception, everybody is within 4-5 hours of everyone else in their "pod." Why is that important? Well for one thing it costs less to get to you opponent. But it also means you can play home and home games on a given weekend, or can arrange a schedule so you can play two opponents on a particular trip. You can arrange a travel partner system if you want. You can develop rivalries with neighbors. Canisius and Niagara, UCONN-Sacred Heart and AIC (UCONN played its first varsity game against AIC, AIC has played at the opening of its new arena and has played them more than any other team) It gives you all sorts of flexibility. I think the AHA has a fairly solid setup right now. I guess I'd prefer a true East-West arrangement. I think that would work pretty well for the playoffs, too, though I'd play 1E-2W and 1W-2E. in the semis. But bottom line is that I think the AHA as currently structured works pretty well. I'm not sure why we'd want to add Huntsville at this point. Adn I'm guessing Niagara, Robert Morris, and Mercyhurst are less likely to want to leave than some of their fans might suggest. The first two have been through the realighnment stuff before with the CHA and I suspect they might very well be happy to stay put in a pretty stable situation ofr a while. The Mercyhurst coach seems to want to move, but I'm not usre his view reflects the views of the administration. Besides that, the rest of the league seems to have caught up with the lakers in recent years. They hardly dominate anymore.

[Rover]

Re: It's Realignment time, it's realignment time! Make it work

Why are you trying to shoehorn Huntsville into Atlantic hockey while all the while having AHA drop a few of its westernmost and closest schools to Alabama? The Eastern schools of the AHA are not going to like losing those long roadies to Erie and Buffalo, and have it replaced with a trip to Alabama.

If I were playing hockey during the winter, I'd much rather go to Alabama than the Erie/Buffalo area.

However, I'm trying to find a home for a school that isn't a good fit anywhere geographically but is supporting the sport of hockey so they deserve some considerations. IF Navy jumped into D-1, they might be the closest school to them.

Regarding the moves to CCHA, those schools I believe could compete in their new conference, and they seem to be committed to their programs which is going to be real important in a decimated CCHA (for example you wouldn't move UConn or Holy Cross to a conference in need of strong members to help sustain it). Also there's a natural fit for non-conference games with RMU-Penn St-Mercyhurst. All in all I'm trying to balance the benefits of one conference without destroying the other which is a tricky balance. The CCHA and the AHA would benefit IMHO from getting both Pitt and Navy to pick up the sport which I've tried to leave open spots in each conference for them to slide into.

[bigmrg74]

Re: It's Realignment time, it's realignment time! Make it work

WCHA with Miami and Notre Dame:

Central Division
LSSU
Ferris State
Western Michigan
Bowling Green State
Miami
Notre Dame

Iron Range Division
Minn. Duluth
St. Cloud
Bemidji St.
Minn. State
NMU
MTU

Far West or Mountain Division:
UND
CC
Denver
Alaska
Alaska Fairbanks
UNO

So, ummmm.... how would the scheduling work for that? play everybody in your division home and home? thats 20 games right there. Then there's the mess of figuring out how many games you can play against the other division members. You might be better off breaking them down into pods of 4, with a pod of 2 for the Alaska schools as most schools would want to get up there often in conference play.

So, Alaska _airbanks and Alaska-Anchorage in pod one or the Alaska Pod

Pod 2 or the West Pod
Denver
CC
UND
UNO

Pod 3 or the Minnesota Pod
Minn. Duluth
St. Cloud
Bemidji St.
Minn. State

Pod 4 or the Michigan Pod or maybe GLIAC Pod
MTU
NMU
LSSU
Ferris

Pod 5 or the Southern Pod
WMU
Norte Dame
BGSU
Miami

Home and homes with your pod members, which is a grand total of 6 games, and then one could more easily figure out a way to balence out the schedule so that everybody would see everybody over several years.

[Jeo]

Re: It's Realignment time, it's realignment time! Make it work

New WCHA for what it is worth: Miami and Notre Dame go to Hockey East

Great Lakes Division:
NMU
LSSU
MTU
Ferris State
Western Michigan
Bowling Green State

Iron Range Division or Great Plains
Minn. Duluth
St. Cloud
Bemidji St.
Minn. State
UND

Far West or Mountain Division:
UNO
CC
Denver
Alaska
Alaska Fairbanks

...

You forgot the Sioux in the top one. Unless you are assuming they will be an independent that automatically gets into the tournament every year

[MOJO]

Re: It's Realignment time, it's realignment time! Make it work

New WCHA for what it is worth: Miami and Notre Dame go to Hockey East

Great Lakes Division:
NMU
LSSU
MTU
Ferris State
Western Michigan
Bowling Green State

Iron Range Division or Great Plains
Minn. Duluth
St. Cloud
Bemidji St.
Minn. State
UND

Far West or Mountain Division:
UNO
CC
Denver
Alaska
Alaska Fairbanks


WCHA with Miami and Notre Dame:

Central Division
LSSU
Ferris State
Western Michigan
Bowling Green State
Miami
Notre Dame

Iron Range Division
Minn. Duluth
St. Cloud
Bemidji St.
Minn. State
NMU
MTU

Far West or Mountain Division:
UND
CC
Denver
Alaska
Alaska Fairbanks
UNO

[bigmrg74]

Re: It's Realignment time, it's realignment time! Make it work

I have three goals in mind: 1) preserve all 6 conferences (CCHA and AHA at most risk, WCHA, ECAC, HE and Big Ten Network conference should be fine). 2) Allow for expansion, and 3) get some geographic balance wherever possible.

So, first the easy way.

Leave WCHA, HE, ECAC as is. WCHA has still has several anchor teams and will have a couple of spaces for expansion down the road although I have no schools in mind for that right now. CCHA keeps two anchor schools (ND and Miami) who should rather be big fish in small pond instead of competing against North Dakota, Denver, etc for league titles every year. Move Mercyhurst and Robert Morris over to conference which still allows expansion (Pitt?) and lines up well geographically. AHA takes independent Alabama-Huntsville and tries to convince Navy to join up. AHA keeps Air Force, Niagara, etc. This way both CCHA and AHA are strengthened.

OR: Service academies go CCHA and have an opening for possible Navy program.

More complicated:

Alaska and Air Force go to WHCA which works better geographically (but prevents any new programs from joining). CCHA still takes RMU and Mercyhurst as well as Niagara and tried to convice one other "name" program to join. 7 team AHA takes Alabama-Huntsville and has room for the next 4 programs that make the leap (again Navy, McDonalds U, etc). While this doesn't leave the AHA in great shape, it does open up some slots for a quicker expansion as the AHA is a natural landing spot for a new program.

Why are you trying to shoehorn Huntsville into Atlantic hockey while all the while having AHA drop a few of its westernmost and closest schools to Alabama? The Eastern schools of the AHA are not going to like losing those long roadies to Erie and Buffalo, and have it replaced with a trip to Alabama.

[Squarebanks]

Agreed that we can (and do) work together, but I think the issue is getting the rest of the WCHA on board. But if such a move were to happen, UAA would have to lead the charge within the WCHA.

And if UAA paved the way for us into the WCHA, I would gladly buy every Seawolf on this board a beer the next time I'm in Anchorage. So that should be enough incentive right there.

I think recent history has shown the two schools are able to work together, at least on items of mutual interest. I wouldn't be surprised if something is being discussed already. I've gotten the feeling that UAF has been ready to bail on the CCHA for a while, having to pay 25 airline tickets per is a drain. I could see them trying to work something out.

I don't see UAA leaving the WCHA at this point, there's no viable option right now.

[Rover]

Re: It's Realignment time, it's realignment time! Make it work

I have three goals in mind: 1) preserve all 6 conferences (CCHA and AHA at most risk, WCHA, ECAC, HE and Big Ten Network conference should be fine). 2) Allow for expansion, and 3) get some geographic balance wherever possible.

So, first the easy way.

Leave WCHA, HE, ECAC as is. WCHA has still has several anchor teams and will have a couple of spaces for expansion down the road although I have no schools in mind for that right now. CCHA keeps two anchor schools (ND and Miami) who should rather be big fish in small pond instead of competing against North Dakota, Denver, etc for league titles every year. Move Mercyhurst and Robert Morris over to conference which still allows expansion (Pitt?) and lines up well geographically. AHA takes independent Alabama-Huntsville and tries to convince Navy to join up. AHA keeps Air Force, Niagara, etc. This way both CCHA and AHA are strengthened.

OR: Service academies go CCHA and have an opening for possible Navy program.

More complicated:

Alaska and Air Force go to WHCA which works better geographically (but prevents any new programs from joining). CCHA still takes RMU and Mercyhurst as well as Niagara and tried to convice one other "name" program to join. 7 team AHA takes Alabama-Huntsville and has room for the next 4 programs that make the leap (again Navy, McDonalds U, etc). While this doesn't leave the AHA in great shape, it does open up some slots for a quicker expansion as the AHA is a natural landing spot for a new program.

[unofan]

Re: It's Realignment time, it's realignment time! Make it work

Another school in the CCHA footprint is Univ. of Evansville. They're building a multipurpose arena in Evansville for Purple Aces basketball and minor league hockey, but I suspect that team will not last and it provides the perfect opportunity for UE, a private catholic university that would create an instant rivalry with Notre Dame.

Yeah, I somehow doubt a school that barely funds its basketball team at anything resembling a proper level is going to have the money to throw at starting a hockey team.

Evansville was a pretty weak addition to the Missouri Valley; I doubt they'll be starting hockey any time in the next 30 years at a bare minimum.

[Jimjamesak]

Re: It's Realignment time, it's realignment time! Make it work

Regarding the AK schools:

It would be much easier for UAA to switch to the CCHA. Problem is, UAA has a hard-on for the WCHA (can't say I blame them with all the uncertainty going on), so it would take some major financial incentives to dangle in front of UAA, and I highly doubt the CCHA leftovers (excluding UAF) would have much interest in making that work.

UAF to the WCHA? I'd love it. Problem is, the WCHA seems inclined to flip the bird to everybody else and go back to 10 teams. Right now the only way I'd see the Nanooks being able to make that move is if both Alaska schools worked together to make it financially appealing to the rest of the WCHA. Possible? Yes. Likely? I'm not holding my breath.

But then again, stranger things have happened.

I think recent history has shown the two schools are able to work together, at least on items of mutual interest. I wouldn't be surprised if something is being discussed already. I've gotten the feeling that UAF has been ready to bail on the CCHA for a while, having to pay 25 airline tickets per is a drain. I could see them trying to work something out.

I don't see UAA leaving the WCHA at this point, there's no viable option right now.

[Hincha]

Re: It's Realignment time, it's realignment time! Make it work

You do realize this is the same Big East that has the highest rated tournament and 11 teams in the NCAA Tournament? I think if the Big East loses Notre Dame, they'll be ok you know, considering Notre Dame does not play Big East football.

The Big East cares about one thing: Basketball. That's the whole purpose of it.

Miami, BC and Virginia Tech all left the Big East recently. Would not surprise if there are other departures in the future. Football is where the money is at, therefore if school wants to explore that, basketball may take a rear seat.

[Squarebanks]

Regarding the AK schools:

It would be much easier for UAA to switch to the CCHA. Problem is, UAA has a hard-on for the WCHA (can't say I blame them with all the uncertainty going on), so it would take some major financial incentives to dangle in front of UAA, and I highly doubt the CCHA leftovers (excluding UAF) would have much interest in making that work.

UAF to the WCHA? I'd love it. Problem is, the WCHA seems inclined to flip the bird to everybody else and go back to 10 teams. Right now the only way I'd see the Nanooks being able to make that move is if both Alaska schools worked together to make it financially appealing to the rest of the WCHA. Possible? Yes. Likely? I'm not holding my breath.

But then again, stranger things have happened.

With the creation of the B1GHC, the only teams that seem likely to consider movement would be the Alaska teams. Which conference they would end up in would probably depend on the financials but together in the same conference seems extremely likely in the near future.

Other schools that may consider movement would be schools like Robert Morris, Michigan Tech, Niagra, RIT, etc. Basically any school that MIGHT see some sort of financial benefit (due to travel or revenue) or added success by moving to a different conference (Tech would probably fair better in the CCHA). I realize that Michigan Tech is pretty well entrenched in the WCHA but they have jumped to the CCHA before...

Due to travel expenses, I don't think the CCHA teams will flee to other conferences unless all or nearly all of them decide to do so at once. It seems more likely that teams like Robert Morris would join the conference.

I still have no clue what will happen with UAH. The CCHA may have turned them away before because of the B1GHC potentially looming and wanting to wait to see what would happen.

[jjmc85]

Re: It's Realignment time, it's realignment time! Make it work

UConn would be full member in the expansion to sixteen. They are an up-and-comer in all major sports--football had a BCS bid this year and played at the Big House, men's and women's hoops are always solid, and they hosted a baseball regional last year and are ranked again this year--quality in all three major sports. Hockey gives the rest of the conference a doormat for a while until that program grows. Plus you finally add the East Coast market for the network. UConn is a natural choice for expansion.

When I first read your plan without UConn in the AHA, I figured it was because you foresaw them cutting their program. Having been to a UConn game at UConn, I personally believe that is exponentially more likely.

[sbkbghockey]

Re: It's Realignment time, it's realignment time! Make it work

There's a number of schools that will add NCAA DI hockey, if given a conference opportunity:

Lindenwood, Minot St, Minn St-Moorhead, British Columbia (mid-April NCAA anouncement)

Others that could/would, under the right circumstances :

Navy, Rhode Island, Liberty, possibly Grand Valley State

As well as some dream additions:

Buffalo, Syracuse, DePaul, Iowa St, Texas, Oklahoma, Stanford, Washington, Oregon (with Nike $'s), Utah (with the advent of new Pac10, Big 12, Texas, and likely Oklahoma networks, the need for additional programming is acute.)

WCHA adds UBC and loses MTU, creating the potential for more West Coast additions.

Notre Dame, Miami, Bowling Green, and W Michigan secede from CCHA and add Robert Morris, UAH, Lindenwood, and Niagara to form new conference

CCHA adds MTU, plus Grand Valley St, MSU-Moorhead, and Minot State to create regional northern tier league

AHA adds Liberty, Navy, and Rhode Island


Just don't see Notre Dame and Miami staying with Upper Peninsula schools. While UAH, Robert Morris, Lindenwood, and Niagara are not exactly well known names, they at least offer media coverage in relatively large metro areas. Notre Dame has probably been working the phones with schools Big East schools like DePaul, Pitt, Syracuse, UConn to upgrade, and maybe even Iowa State and Texas, etc., but the probability of those happening is likely remote.

I could also see the CCHA looking to add Ohio Univ and Kent State bringing back a leauge footprint they once had and focusing on the Ohio Michigan Area. The CCHA could add Lindenwood and re-enter the St. Louis Market (they had St. Louis Univ back in the day and have since hosted events in St. Louis, most recently the 2010 Ice Breaker Tourney and the 2011 West Regional this weekend. Another school in the CCHA footprint is Univ. of Evansville. They're building a multipurpose arena in Evansville for Purple Aces basketball and minor league hockey, but I suspect that team will not last and it provides the perfect opportunity for UE, a private catholic university that would create an instant rivalry with Notre Dame.

[dutchbrowncoat]

Re: It's Realignment time, it's realignment time! Make it work

And Minnesota can only play in one conference.

good call. had them in there twice and forgot providence, my bad. pulled the original post anyway though. my rep was getting absolutely hammered. didn't think it was worth it for just tossing a different idea out there.