LSSU Hockey 2012-2013

[jnacc]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2012-2013

I want to be clear; the LSSU Laker Hockey Team deserves, and can obtain good coaching. I don't like to read what sounds to me to an acceptance of mediocrity in the interest of stability or saving the budget. I want the current staff to be successful, but any excuse I've read on this board is easily refuted with demonstrated turnarounds by other teams. It's not about money or talent. It's about the culture of the program. I agree the data presented by Lakerblue could be seen to show progress, but does it truly feel that way? Who expects one of the best and most exciting players this year, a freshman forward, whose name I won't use, to show progress and improve each year? The Lakers can't afford the talent Michigan gets, or a $250,000 coach, but they can afford a team that doesn't mail it in the last game of a playoff series, or the final series of the season against a rival. Those who foresee success in the new WCHA due to a lower level of competition had better reconsider. Make no mistake about it, I am confident in the opinion that 5 of the current coaches of future WCHA teams do a better job getting more out of less than our program's leaders.

The reality is that Roque is the lowest paid coach in the CCHA and one of the lowest paid in D-1 hockey. The Lakers recruiting budget is also the smallest in the CCHA and is comparable to a small Atlantic College Hockey program that only offers 12 scholarships. LSSU does not have the financial wherewithal to hire a first rate coach ala Western Michigan or Michigan Tech. These budget limitations have an obvious affect on the success of the program and it is foolishness to expect regular appearances at the JLA or berths in the NCAA tournament.

Yes, LSSU can possibly hire what is considered an up and coming coach, gleaned from the USHL ranks with solid connections to the best teams and leagues on the continent but would that really ensure success in recruiting top players from the USHL/BCHL and the NTDP? I hardly think so, considering that such players end up playing for major programs that the Lakers simply cannot compete against.

We have to be realistic and now our pecking order in the college hockey world.

[DB Cooper]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2012-2013

The reality is that Roque is the lowest paid coach in the CCHA and one of the lowest paid in D-1 hockey. The Lakers recruiting budget is also the smallest in the CCHA and is comparable to a small Atlantic College Hockey program that only offers 12 scholarships. LSSU does not have the financial wherewithal to hire a first rate coach ala Western Michigan or Michigan Tech. These budget limitations have an obvious affect on the success of the program and it is foolishness to expect regular appearances at the JLA or berths in the NCAA tournament.

Yes, LSSU can possibly hire what is considered an up and coming coach, gleaned from the USHL ranks with solid connections to the best teams and leagues on the continent but would that really ensure success in recruiting top players from the USHL/BCHL and the NTDP? I hardly think so, considering that such players end up playing for major programs that the Lakers simply cannot compete against.

We have to be realistic and now our pecking order in the college hockey world.

I couldn't have your outlook and still stay interested in the Lakers or college hockey in general. At the beginning of the season they should list the budgets of the programs from largest to smallest and produce the final rankings, eliminating the need for playing all those predetermined games.

I can't agree that because a budget is small, and a coach on the low end of the pay scale, that the team can't play with more consistency and effort, and players can't improve. My original post says nothing about expecting league or national championships.

Coach Roque and his staff are intelligent and motivated. I don't think they give less effort because their budget is smaller. The program simply has some chronic issues with underachievement. They haven't found a way to make the most of what they have.

Think about it, last friday the Lakers play a good game against WMU. Saturday they look as if they have not yet been aquainted with their hockey sticks. This is not an isolated incident. What does that have to do with their budget or Coach Roque's salary?

[LSSULaker889294]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2012-2013

Does anybody know what the non-conference schedule looks like next year?

I thought I heard that Union and Huntsville will be playing in the Sault.

Not sure if a trip is scheduled to Bemidji since they played in the Sault last year.

I would think they would go to Bemidji, but I'm not sure. Also I believe the clusters are NMU, Miami, Alaska and Ferris, but not 100 percent sure. This is my guess what the schedule will be like:

Cluster: NMU, Miami, Alaska, Ferris
Home: Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State
Road: Bowling Green, Western Michigan, Notre Dame
Non-Conference: UAH (Home) Union (Home) Bemidji? (Road), Holiday Tournament? (Road)

[davyd83]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2012-2013

At the risk of being seen as agreeing with a certain negative Nancy, the following consistent shortcomings of the Laker program persist from season to season:

1. Poor or weak performances in critical series at the end of the season
2. Poor and tentative performance at critical times at the end of games
3. Failure of players to improve during seasons and careers, with actual regression seen at times
4. Rare victories with the Lakers in underdog status
5. Frequent losses with the Lakers in favorite status

I truly enjoyed watching the team this year. I think this is the pinnacle of success we can anticipate without changes being made. I don't know if the current staff can address these and other issues repeatedly demonstrated over multiple seasons. I want to be clear; the LSSU Laker Hockey Team deserves, and can obtain good coaching. I don't like to read what sounds to me to an acceptance of mediocrity in the interest of stability or saving the budget. I want the current staff to be successful, but any excuse I've read on this board is easily refuted with demonstrated turnarounds by other teams. It's not about money or talent. It's about the culture of the program. I agree the data presented by Lakerblue could be seen to show progress, but does it truly feel that way? Who expects one of the best and most exciting players this year, a freshman forward, whose name I won't use, to show progress and improve each year? The Lakers can't afford the talent Michigan gets, or a $250,000 coach, but they can afford a team that doesn't mail it in the last game of a playoff series, or the final series of the season against a rival. Those who foresee success in the new WCHA due to a lower level of competition had better reconsider. Make no mistake about it, I am confident in the opinion that 5 of the current coaches of future WCHA teams do a better job getting more out of less than our program's leaders.

So which players "mailed it in?" Who wasn't giving what you felt to be a solid effort? And remember, effort doesn't always mean results. I've seen plenty of games where the effort was there, but the result was lacking. But to say that some players "mailed it in" would insinuate that they didn't try. I doubt that was the case. I can assure you that in the final series of the regular season at NMU that there was no mailing it in by anyone from LSSU.

[PerkyforPrez]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2012-2013

So which players "mailed it in?" Who wasn't giving what you felt to be a solid effort? And remember, effort doesn't always mean results. I've seen plenty of games where the effort was there, but the result was lacking. But to say that some players "mailed it in" would insinuate that they didn't try. I doubt that was the case. I can assure you that in the final series of the regular season at NMU that there was no mailing it in by anyone from LSSU.

It was nice to see the Lakers finish the season with class and not stoop to thugery or trying to hurt someone with a cheap shot.

I don't think there was one player that did not give 100 percent, mailing it in is more a shot at the coach. We had more talent this yearthen we had in a while is why we feel we could have done better in them two series in question. We are not talking about the players we could not afford to recruit but the ones we have watched all year not just the two games up at Marquette.
Dave we know we have the lowest payed coach and smallest budget, this time last year all we heard from you was how the WCHA would never grant us admission.

[Lakerblue]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2012-2013

Dave we know we have the lowest payed coach and smallest budget, this time last year all we heard from you was how the WCHA would never grant us admission.

So true.

I always get a little laugh out of NMU folks who think, hilariously, that NMU is some mighty institution with a proud and powerful hockey history. snicker snicker. Most of NMU's life has been spent in the bottom half of the division while wearing unwatchable gaudy ugly uniforms in two embarassing rinks (Lakeside, which was a leaky ice-fishing shanty; and The Northern Michigan Bland Bowl of Cement), switching from league to league in a desperate attempt to find any footing. I mean, at least we LSSU folks know our team hasn't done jack in 15 years. The NMU folk seem to think their program is bathed in glory, as if they have 10,000 fans cramming into their stadium and as if every D-I program in the country wants to schedule NMU because it is such a glorious and high-profile program. As if they have so much money to spend, and have such a huge budget that they lavish their coaches with money. My guess is that NMU's entire hockey budget is probably what a program like North Dakota spends on one assistant coach. Thats OK -- thats the world we live in. Fine. At least most LSSU people understand we're small school in an isolated community with a small budget. LSSU was always the Little School That Could. What is hilarious is that NMU thinks somehow they are NOT a small, isolated state school in a small isolated community.

phew.


I needed to get that out.

I feel so much better.

I have been holding my tongue on NMU's inane insipid irrelevance all season.

[davyd83]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2012-2013

So true.

I always get a little laugh out of NMU folks who think, hilariously, that NMU is some mighty institution with a proud and powerful hockey history. snicker snicker. Most of NMU's life has been spent in the bottom half of the division while wearing unwatchable gaudy ugly uniforms in two embarassing rinks (Lakeside, which was a leaky ice-fishing shanty; and The Northern Michigan Bland Bowl of Cement), switching from league to league in a desperate attempt to find any footing. I mean, at least we LSSU folks know our team hasn't done jack in 15 years. The NMU folk seem to think their program is bathed in glory, as if they have 10,000 fans cramming into their stadium and as if every D-I program in the country wants to schedule NMU because it is such a glorious and high-profile program. As if they have so much money to spend, and have such a huge budget that they lavish their coaches with money. My guess is that NMU's entire hockey budget is probably what a program like North Dakota spends on one assistant coach. Thats OK -- thats the world we live in. Fine. At least most LSSU people understand we're small school in an isolated community with a small budget. LSSU was always the Little School That Could. What is hilarious is that NMU thinks somehow they are NOT a small, isolated state school in a small isolated community.

phew.


I needed to get that out.

I feel so much better.

I have been holding my tongue on NMU's inane insipid irrelevance all season.

NMU is no mighty institution, and LSSU has more NCAA title banners hanging from their rafters. The Lakers have a great history, maybe as good or better as any of the smaller D-I schools As far as budget goes, NMU isn't much ahead of LSSU, in that respect, dollar value is almost negligible. They are two schools that face many of the same problems when trying to compete with the Michigans and Boston U's of the college hockey world. It's good to see that Tech, NMU and LSSU will now be in a league where they can compete on fairly even ground with their conference opponents. It would be nice if administrators can find a way to add Huntsville and help keep that program going as well. Actually, it would have been nice to have added Huntsville and Wayne State a few years back.

[PerkyforPrez]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2012-2013

I hear that the memory is the second thing to go. Dave you didn't tell us you think we would not get in the WCHA you told us that there was no way no chance we would get in. We were too small too broke and we were way too far away from the other schools in Minnesota to even be considered. Even after we tried to explain that we are less then three hours from you it was just not good enough. I remember you running around in these threads blaming other institutions for not throwing a lifeline to UAH while your institution was jumping at the first opportunity to join the WCHA with only concern for number one. For the record I would like to see UAH get into our league, it would be a nice trip to go down there.

[davyd83]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2012-2013

It was nice to see the Lakers finish the season with class and not stoop to thugery or trying to hurt someone with a cheap shot.

I don't think there was one player that did not give 100 percent, mailing it in is more a shot at the coach. We had more talent this yearthen we had in a while is why we feel we could have done better in them two series in question. We are not talking about the players we could not afford to recruit but the ones we have watched all year not just the two games up at Marquette.
Dave we know we have the lowest payed coach and smallest budget, this time last year all we heard from you was how the WCHA would never grant us admission.

That was a completely wrong way for players to end a game for sure. No disagreement there at all.

[davyd83]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2012-2013

I hear that the memory is the second thing to go. Dave you didn't tell us you think we would not get in the WCHA you told us that there was no way no chance we would get in. We were too small too broke and we were way too far away from the other schools in Minnesota to even be considered. Even after we tried to explain that we are less then three hours from you it was just not good enough. I remember you running around in these threads blaming other institutions for not throwing a lifeline to UAH while your institution was jumping at the first opportunity to join the WCHA with only concern for number one. For the record I would like to see UAH get into our league, it would be a nice trip to go down there.

I remember very well. I did not think that LSSU would be invited, and they likely would not have been if St Cloud hadn't jumped ship from the WCHA. Blaming others for not throwing UAH a lifeline? I wanted UAH admitted to the CCHA when Omaha left. Never blamed anyone, but pointed out some of the objections that UAH was coming across in trying to get in to the CCHA. Yes, NMU jumped at the first opportunity to join the WCHA, but LSSU would have been right alongside had they been offered the opportunity at that point.

[sm2pk]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2012-2013

The CCHA was silly to terminate . The new league out west is going to want to go to a 10 team league sooner or later . As of now,the new WCHA is made up of 4 teams from the WCHA and 5 from the CCHA and the 5 teams from the CCHA are the better teams. The CCHA should have stayed together and invited the WCHA teams dumped by their big teams a chance to join the CCHA. I still can't see how a big school like MI State would hire a coach who has never coached .

The new league out west is 8 teams and they will want to expand to 10 and you have to ask yourself,which teams out of the new WCHA will they eventually go after . That leaves the WCHA with less schools and it will be mainly a revamped CCHA league under the WCHA name. Schools like Lake State and Bowling Green and the rest were dumped to the side of the road by the nationally ranked teams. Would any of you hire Tom Anastos with his coaching experience ? Hell no.

[aparch]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2012-2013

The new league out west is 8 teams and they will want to expand to 10 and you have to ask yourself,which teams out of the new WCHA will they eventually go after . That leaves the WCHA with less schools and it will be mainly a revamped CCHA league under the WCHA name.

There has been discussion in the New WCHA thread about the league offices. Seems the WCHA (Men's) offices are currently housed at the University of Denver. Obviously, they cannot stay there, and the other part of the league offices (Women's) is at the University of Wisconsin. Since the WCHA women's teams aren't reorganizing, they can stay there... meaning that the WCHA Men's office needs to find a home.

The CCHA, on the other hand, has been making quite a push this year in marketing their teams and putting quite the effort into their web presence. To me, they're pushing hard to be the new league home of the WCHA. Or, everyone there at least wants to be employed by the WCHA in just over a year.

[Lakerblue]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2012-2013

There has been discussion in the New WCHA thread about the league offices. Seems the WCHA (Men's) offices are currently housed at the University of Denver. Obviously, they cannot stay there, and the other part of the league offices (Women's) is at the University of Wisconsin. Since the WCHA women's teams aren't reorganizing, they can stay there... meaning that the WCHA Men's office needs to find a home.

The CCHA, on the other hand, has been making quite a push this year in marketing their teams and putting quite the effort into their web presence. To me, they're pushing hard to be the new league home of the WCHA. Or, everyone there at least wants to be employed by the WCHA in just over a year.

I personally hope that not a single person, computer, chair, fake potted plant, or pencil from the CCHA ever moves to the WCHA. It is (was) a terrible league. Poorly run. Poorly organized. Poorly supported. Since Tom took over the CCHA, the league had one goal: Promote UM and MSU hockey. The rest of us were just the Washington Generals being used to fill out the schedule. There is not one person currenlty working in the CCHA that deserves anything but contempt and disgust from the bastard step-children of the GLIAC who were treated with something worse than contempt for the past 10 years.

There is no reason why the new WCHA would, should, or could ever want to have anything to do with the current CCHA offices.

Personally, I have espoused the belief that the new WCHA offices should be located in Houghton. Let us all be honest: Tech IS college hockey. Tech has long been the spiritual home of college hockey -- even though its been a long time since Houghton hosted a top-flight team. The weekly rankings and polls all used to come out of Houghton. Its is located at the crossroads between the other UP schools, Ferris and BGSU . . . and the Minnesota schools . .. and the Alaska schools.

[Laker Dude]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2012-2013

I remember very well. I did not think that LSSU would be invited, and they likely would not have been if St Cloud hadn't jumped ship from the WCHA. Blaming others for not throwing UAH a lifeline? I wanted UAH admitted to the CCHA when Omaha left. Never blamed anyone, but pointed out some of the objections that UAH was coming across in trying to get in to the CCHA. Yes, NMU jumped at the first opportunity to join the WCHA, but LSSU would have been right alongside had they been offered the opportunity at that point.

St Cloud left after Ferris, Bowling Green and Lake State were invited.

[jnacc]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2012-2013

I couldn't have your outlook and still stay interested in the Lakers or college hockey in general. At the beginning of the season they should list the budgets of the programs from largest to smallest and produce the final rankings, eliminating the need for playing all those predetermined games.

I can't agree that because a budget is small, and a coach on the low end of the pay scale, that the team can't play with more consistency and effort, and players can't improve. My original post says nothing about expecting league or national championships.

Coach Roque and his staff are intelligent and motivated. I don't think they give less effort because their budget is smaller. The program simply has some chronic issues with underachievement. They haven't found a way to make the most of what they have.

Think about it, last friday the Lakers play a good game against WMU. Saturday they look as if they have not yet been aquainted with their hockey sticks. This is not an isolated incident. What does that have to do with their budget or Coach Roque's salary?

I am sure you are familiar with the phrase "you get what you pay for"......recruiting is an expensive endevour and it is not in the program's budget to make frequent trips out west to the BCHL or even parts of the mid-west to gauge USHL talent. The Lakers, for the most part, recruit players that are within a day's driving distance and this obviously excludes a large amount of the available player pool, resulting in a terrible disadvantage for the program.

If Michigan fails to make it to the JLA, then they under-achieved. We can say that Michigan State's hockey program is under-achieving due to the tremendous amount of resources (lots of money!!!) it enjoys and we can perhaps point the blame there to the athletic department and their hiring choices. Notre Dame, for all their talent, most certainly under-achieved and the coaching staff there needs a good hard look in the mirror to see just what the heck happened this year.

Lake State did not under-achieve. Yes they did not over-achieve like a Ferris State or Bowling Green or like the Lakers of 07 that made it to the JLA. They lost to a very good program that spent a significant amount of money hiring a top rate coaching staff and that is scouring the continent (if not the globe) in search of the best talent they can find. Lake Superior cannot compete against a Western Michigan that is committed to placing a winning program on the ice, no matter the cost. Yes the Lakers may at times have fortune smile down upon them and beat such a program....on an infrequent basis, but to expect them to win and not deem it as an upset is, in my view, foolish.

Unless the over-all talent in the D-1 ranks noticeably drops, Lake State will not ever be expected to contend for anything in the current set-up. Now for a brief moment this year, I really did think that the level of play exhibited from the traditionally strong programs was down by a significant margin and that perhaps Lake State could once again be a team in the mix but one year does not make a trend....

I am no fan of the recent shake-up in college hockey and do not like the reconfigured conferences one bit but for very selfish reasons. I will terribly miss watching the Michigans and Notre Dames come to the Abel and I will find teams like Bemidji and Minnesota State as poor replacements (and I'm sure their fans are feeling the same way about us or Ferris State replacing North Dakota and Minnesota). Make no mistake, however, that Lake Superior will be much more competitive in their new conference and will have a higher percentage of winning year after year.