SOLDIER FIELD 2013 • Wisconsin vs. Minnesota & Miami vs. Notre Dame

[HarleyMC]

Re: SOLDIER FIELD 2013 • Wisconsin vs. Minnesota & Miami vs. Notre Dame

I appreciate your restraint, I really do

The difference is what I take umbrage with. This wasn't the same game as is played every other game of the year. And I don't like that teams that are built a certain way, trained a certain way, end up having a championship possibly jeopardized because they take the ice in a game that mitigates what they do so well in a typical environment. And I really HATE it when it is my team.

And just to reiterate, that in my humble opinion, what we saw today in no way resembles what we grew up playing at the park.


There is so much I could write about this topic. I'm trying to keep my criticisms as short and succinct as possible, and I realize I'm probably not doing the best job of that. I thought my analogy of the basketball game with the midgets and the 3ft baskets was pretty darn good, but apparently the point was missed by a few people.
The obvious retort to my complaints is that "well, MN should have just done more in their other conference games so that today wouldn't have been so important...not lose against Mankato either game, or sweep Tech..." and as a player or a coach, I think that's the right answer. But as an observer, fan, analyst...?

Lucia had a great quote a few years ago about the implementation of shoot-outs to determine winners in tie games, something to the effect of "when NCAA Tournament games are decided by shoot-outs, we should start using them in the regular season."

Well, I certainly hope it's comforting to know that I did have you in my thoughts when I wrote it.

And I think you make a valid point about the differential strengths and weaknesses of these two teams and how those are uniquely affected by many factors today. As far as ice surfaces are concerned, I look at it like the two Grand Slam tennis surfaces: Roland Garros and Wimbleton that are completely different (clay and grass) and typically there are players that are better on either surface, but usually not both. A similar scenario may have entered into the mix today in ChiTown, but overall I like how Lucia summed it up, "you have to adjust" or you don't win.

[Stauber1]

Re: SOLDIER FIELD 2013 • Wisconsin vs. Minnesota & Miami vs. Notre Dame

Well, I certainly hope it's comforting to know that I did have you in my thoughts when I wrote it.

Like a warm fuzzy blanket

[goldy_331]

Re: SOLDIER FIELD 2013 • Wisconsin vs. Minnesota & Miami vs. Notre Dame

I am somewhat baffled by how poor the ice was under the circumstances. I've watched outdoor games where the sun or even some rain made for crappy ice, but the sun was low enough that it was not directly on the ice surface here. It wasn't warm enough to have any impact (it's usually warmer indoors) and they had full refrigeration capability. The ice was not put down the day before, but had been in for a few days. Just what was it that caused it to be so bumpy and choppy? I'm speaking as someone who has worked in ice arenas and helped design the mechanical systems for them. I can't figure out what they did that resulted in such poor quality of the ice surface.

I hope the UMN facility staff observed carefully and have it figured out. If the Gophs do host one of these in the future, I sure hope they get better ice in place.

[SanTropez]

Re: SOLDIER FIELD 2013 • Wisconsin vs. Minnesota & Miami vs. Notre Dame

Not thinking the ice conditions had a say in the outcome is laughable, look at the puck that bounced like a basketball then hits off Reilly and goes in. If that is at Kohl Center that puck does not bounce like that and go in. Also was anyone watching players fall down in the same spot without anyone near them, ha and that's not the ice. There was also quite a few times players were carrying the puck out of the zone and the puck just stops and falls off their sticks, giving the other team offensive possession again. It was crappy for both teams yes, but one team plays that style of Hockey normally (slow, defensive, etc...) and probably enjoyed it.

[mnstate0fhockey]

Agreed. The complaining coming from some Minnesota fans sounds like serious sour grapes. I thought Minnesota slightly outplayed Wisconsin, but that Wisconsin had the higher quality scoring opportunities. Minnesota put way too many of their chances wide or over the top of the net. Wisconsin capitalized on more of their chances, and the game could have easily been 5-2.

I was there and completely disagree. I think Minnesota had more high quality scoring chances, but Rumpel was amazing. The ice certainly effected the Gopher's transition game, but the Gophers needed to adjust by getting pucks in deep and getting their forecheck going. They did that well in the first period and were largely controlling the game, but then got away from that in the second. A lot of missed cross ice passes as the ice was slower. Needed to just get pucks in deep. I think the person who had the hardest time adjusting was Wilcox. Looked like he was fighting the puck a little bit.

Wisconsin played really well in the second. They took advantage of their opportunities and got shots to the net and blocked a lot of shots in their end. Most importantly, they controlled the front of their net and ours in the second period. That was the biggest difference maker.

All said, it was an absolute blast and an amazing atmosphere. So many Gopher fans there. The streets around Soldier were flooded with Maroon and Gold. I'd love to see the Gophers in another outdoor game.

[Koho]

Re: SOLDIER FIELD 2013 • Wisconsin vs. Minnesota & Miami vs. Notre Dame

A tragedy and mockery?? That's totally absurd Brent. Take a deep breath, you're whining. Have you ever played this game outdoors? If not, nothing anyone can say will change your thinking because you don't understand how this works outdoors amidst all kinds of ice conditions. The ice wasn't tilted today, so each team needed to show up with their best shot. "It was out of the hands of the basic skill of the players". What specific skills are referring to?

I grew up playing hockey outdoors with a rink in our side yard. I now play hockey indoors, with a rare foray onto an outdoor rink. Playing outdoors is fun. It is fun to watch an outdoor game. I attended the Grand Rapids game at Hockey Day MN. I am very familiar with the differences and advantages/disadvantages of both. However, I don't like to see college games outdoors. I have said this from long before the Gophs lost yesterday. Yes, the better team should still be able to win. But the skill margin between the teams is greatly reduced outside so the chance of the better team winning is greatly reduced (and who wins should be determined more by who is more skilled and plays harder than by just who plays harder and gets the bounces). If a skater who can normally blow past other skaters with speed has the puck hit a bump and hop on him, he probably loses it. If a player has a stickhandling edge over another, it will be very difficult to execute that advantage on poor ice. (I skated both outside and in yesterday, and I assure you, I could do twice as much stickhandling on indoor ice.) However, a team that relies more on putting the puck on net and getting a dirty goal will not be affected nearly as much. So when one says that a team 'needs to adjust' to the conditions, it is saying that the more skilled team should not try to take advantage of the areas at which they excel and that make them the better team. It reduces the game from skill and will, to mostly just will. And with how valuable every point is in college hockey, I don't enjoy seeing two of them be determined this way. In high school, regular season games don't mean much, as conference titles mean almost nothing and everyone gets to play in the playoffs. So I think they are great at that level. And even in the NHL, there are a lot more game so the points don't mean quite as much, so a Winter Classic every year is fine. But I'd be fine with not ever seeing the Gophs play another outdoor game. It is a gimmick that can end.

[mnstate0fhockey]

Not thinking the ice conditions had a say in the outcome is laughable, look at the puck that bounced like a basketball then hits off Reilly and goes in. If that is at Kohl Center that puck does not bounce like that and go in. Also was anyone watching players fall down in the same spot without anyone near them, ha and that's not the ice. There was also quite a few times players were carrying the puck out of the zone and the puck just stops and falls off their sticks, giving the other team offensive possession again. It was crappy for both teams yes, but one team plays that style of Hockey normally (slow, defensive, etc...) and probably enjoyed it.

It certainly got the Gophers off their game, and it is laughable to suggest otherwise, but the Gophers failed to adapt. It's not like they are a team incapable of playing a slower paced, physical game.

[captain beefheart]

Re: SOLDIER FIELD 2013 • Wisconsin vs. Minnesota & Miami vs. Notre Dame

Aw quit yer bellyachin'. All the Badger fans have gone home and you are all just nit picking. We lost and we move on. I very much enjoyed the game, gimmick or not. If your complaint involves losing conference points in part because of said gimmick then either play better or win others that you should have ( ie Mich. Tech )

[Koho]

Re: SOLDIER FIELD 2013 • Wisconsin vs. Minnesota & Miami vs. Notre Dame

Don Lucia with a fair assessment of the game:



Badger and Gopher goals (page down for Gopher goals):

http://btn.com/2013/02/17/its-hockey...?cmp=user_post

Right at the beginning, Lucia says something like ' we tried to make some plays that weren't there because of ice conditions' and refers again to conditions later. Tehy all talk about adjusting, but adjusting means relying less on the skill that separates them from other teams.

[mnstate0fhockey]

Right at the beginning, Lucia says something like ' we tried to make some plays that weren't there because of ice conditions' and refers again to conditions later. Tehy all talk about adjusting, but adjusting means relying less on the skill that separates them from other teams.

Gophers are capable of winning those grind it out games though.

Yes, ice conditions threw their timing off. Too many missed passes because guys out skated passes. Too many failed touch passes. But why keep trying the cross-ice and touch passes? Just get the puck in deep, get a forecheck going, and get guys in front of the net. All things they have done well when defenses have frustrated us in the past.

Wisconsin kept it simple. They got pucks to the net, and in the second had a ton of guys out in front of our net. They also made it difficult for our guys to camp in front of theirs. But our guys weren't physical enough out front IMO.

[Jaws]

Re: SOLDIER FIELD 2013 • Wisconsin vs. Minnesota & Miami vs. Notre Dame

I've never been a fan of these outdoor games at any level. But I do find it amusing that these things are called Classics and they are usually anything but. Substandard ice conditions, poor sightlines, and seats so far away from the rink that you can berely tell one team from the other. Thank god for jumbotrons.

[mnstate0fhockey]

I've never been a fan of these outdoor games at any level. But I do find it amusing that these things are called Classics and they are usually anything but. Substandard ice conditions, poor sightlines, and seats so far away from the rink that you can berely tell one team from the other. Thank god for jumbotrons.

Really, really fun atmosphere though. My group had so much fun. I think sometimes we forget that we are there for entertainment

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: SOLDIER FIELD 2013 • Wisconsin vs. Minnesota & Miami vs. Notre Dame

I find all this talk about the ice making this game a crapshoot to be right on. I mean, I guess according to the players the ice was ok in the first, but clearly they're just being courteous. MN gets a ton of quality shots but even then it's obvious the ice prevents them from finishing.

Of course then in the second the ice really goes to **** and for ten minutes the ice lets Bucky possess the puck, get it in deep and take a bunch of shots on what is obviously a ridiculous playing surface. Then the ice causes MN to get caught in a long, long shift, and Shulze sends one in that the ice causes Wilcox to misplay, and it goes in. What a screw job!

A minute later Haula freezes up (due to bad ice) and watches Ramage's looper go sailing right by him while Wilcox is standing up and out of position. (due to bad ice) and the ice deflects it in. The goofs are down 2-0 and I'm actually feeling bad about it at this point.

Even after these lapses, (due to bad ice) had this game been played indoors under normal circumstances the Gofer's dominating speed and skill would have kicked in and easily brought them back anyway. It's just the ******** ICE!
It's reasonable because you guys are so awesome all the time. Despite (I think) your record in games you're down 2 goals being 0-1-1, I think it's clear to everyone the gofers would have still come back if it weren't for the ICE! (Even though arguably WI is the toughest team in the country to score on 5-5 given how anemic we are offensively and how little time we spend possessing the puck.)

Of course then due to choppy ice, Wilcox gives up another fat rebound and the goofs, hampered again by sketchy ice, watch Little miraculously glide above it untouched into the crease to knock it in. **** THIS ICE!

Clearly the rest of the way tICE prevents the Goofs from coming all the way back like they would have indoors. Even though the number of times they've done this all year is zero. (They have, however, coughed up a 3 goal lead (2 leads, actually) to powerhouse CC. Presumably after CC cleverly opened the doors at World Arena and ruined the ice in the 3rd period. Real classy, CC.)

Anyway, just sayin' I really empathise with the way tICE screwed you guys over. If I were Eaves, I'd petition the WCHA to throw out the results, or forfeit the game. Seriously. If we can't beat a better team by our goalie making some key saves, handling the puck well, and our boys out efforting and winning puck battles for a key stretch of the game, and taking advantage of some lapses by the defense and opposing goalie, then I don't want to win.

**** tICE!!!

[Jaws]

Re: SOLDIER FIELD 2013 • Wisconsin vs. Minnesota & Miami vs. Notre Dame

I gotta give you that. I guess if you chose to attend you would go into it with the right attitude, Let's have a great time at this event.

Really, really fun atmosphere though. My group had so much fun. I think sometimes we forget that we are there for entertainment

[mnstate0fhockey]

I find all this talk about the ice making this game a crapshoot to be right on. I mean, I guess according to the players the ice was ok in the first, but clearly they're just being courteous. MN gets a ton of quality shots but even then it's obvious the ice prevents them from finishing.

Of course then in the second the ice really goes to **** and for ten minutes the ice lets Bucky possess the puck, get it in deep and take a bunch of shots on what is obviously a ridiculous playing surface. Then the ice causes MN to get caught in a long, long shift, and Shulze sends one in that the ice causes Wilcox to misplay, and it goes in. What a screw job!

A minute later Haula freezes up (due to bad ice) and watches Ramage's looper go sailing right by him while Wilcox is standing up and out of position. (due to bad ice) and the ice deflects it in. The goofs are down 2-0 and I'm actually feeling bad about it at this point.

Even after these lapses, (due to bad ice) had this game been played indoors under normal circumstances the Gofer's dominating speed and skill would have kicked in and easily brought them back anyway. It's just the ******** ICE!
It's reasonable because you guys are so awesome all the time. Despite (I think) your record in games you're down 2 goals being 0-1-1, I think it's clear to everyone the gofers would have still come back if it weren't for the ICE! (Even though arguably WI is the toughest team in the country to score on 5-5 given how anemic we are offensively and how little time we spend possessing the puck.)

Of course then due to choppy ice, Wilcox gives up another fat rebound and the goofs, hampered again by sketchy ice, watch Little miraculously glide above it untouched into the crease to knock it in. **** THIS ICE!

Clearly the rest of the way tICE prevents the Goofs from coming all the way back like they would have indoors. Even though the number of times they've done this all year is zero. (They have, however, coughed up a 3 goal lead (2 leads, actually) to powerhouse CC. Presumably after CC cleverly opened the doors at World Arena and ruined the ice in the 3rd period. Real classy, CC.)

Anyway, just sayin' I really empathise with the way tICE screwed you guys over. If I were Eaves, I'd petition the WCHA to throw out the results, or forfeit the game. Seriously. If we can't beat a better team by our goalie making some key saves, handling the puck well, and our boys out efforting and winning puck battles for a key stretch of the game, and taking advantage of some lapses by the defense and opposing goalie, then I don't want to win.

**** tICE!!!

And if the Badgers lost I'm sure there would be no complaining from your fanbase about the ice conditions

I'm not about to use the ice conditions as an excuse, because both teams were subjected to it, but you sound absolutely foolish by suggesting it didn't impact the game.

Badgers adjusted, the Gophers didn't. And yes, it did have a bigger impact on the way the Gophers wanted to play the game than it did on the way the Badgers wanted to play the game. That's just the truth. Even Badger fans on this board were admitting before the game that bad ice could even out the talent disparity. So just stop.

All that said, it's not like the Gophers have a team that is incapable of winning a slower, more physical game. They just got away from doing what they needed to do and it costed them. They stopped getting the puck in deep and forechecking and didn't establish a presence in front of the net until late. The Badgers got pucks to the net and guys out in front in the second period and got great goaltending thruought and that was the difference.

Enjoy the win before you take a look at the Pairwise and reality sets in again