Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

[Dude Love]

Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

WHERE did I say it was JUSTIFIED? WHERE?

The University of North Dakota created an environment where this can happen. My simple message yesterday read: no nickname, no chants.

Right there. It's OK that they yelled it, because it's UND's fault.

[Runninwiththedogs]

Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

Sweetie...everything is over your head.

Swish!

Not MEg!

[Runninwiththedogs]

Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

Right there. It's OK that they yelled it, because it's UND's fault.

Nowhere does that justify the chant.

[Dude Love]

Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

Nowhere does that justify the chant.

It's not UND's fault that people yell idiotically racist things. That's the PEOPLE'S fault. PEOPLE need to take responsibility for their actions.

[The Rube]

Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

You are contradicting yourself. You said UND created the environment that allowed stupid people to yell stupid chants. Without a catalyst, there is no result. Catalyst? UND. Result? tUMD fans chanting horrible chants. Blame? On UND.

[Dude Love]

Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

You are contradicting yourself. You said UND created the environment that allowed stupid people to yell stupid chants. Without a catalyst, there is no result. Catalyst? UND. Result? tUMD fans chanting horrible chants. Blame? On UND.

Who are you talking to? Her, right?

[The Rube]

Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

Who are you talking to? Her, right?

Yes.

Still waiting on my Fighting Irish question. Will the real RWD please stand up?

[Stauber1]

Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

Ward Churchill "academic researcher?" For cripes sake he was chairman of a department at a flagship state universisty. Why intentionaly diminish has stature? The dark heart of every conspiracy theory is the inference of subjective motivation from objective result, post hoc ergo propter hoc. And that's what you're arguing here.

The writing of history is a consensus activity. And just as the consensus of history is that Oswald shot JFK and there was no conspiracy, similarly the consensus of history is this event that is so much a part of what you "know" about American history is a lie.

Indians were decimated by small pox? And this is "proof" it was done deliberately? I suppose it would be useless to point out, again, that I don't approve of the cheers. But that's not really your concern, is it? What you're concerned about is the everyone be properly disgusted with a mythical episode. If you keep repeating a historical lie often enough and loud enough (Jews stabbed Germany in the back, for instance) some credulous people will doubtless begin to believe it.

You entirely missed my point and chose to invent your own point to ascribe to me.
Whether this was done deliberately or subconsciously is an interesting question.

I'll back it up for you. The Native American population was decimated by smallpox (I can't figure out if you find this point contentious or not). This in and of itself is not "proof" that it was done deliberately. There is plenty of other evidence that deliberate spread of the disease was ordered to be pursued. There is strong implicating evidence that it was carried out, however this of course can not be "proven."
I was not discussing a singular "event" as you seem to suggest.
It concerns my knowledge of American history only insofar as the entire issue of smallpox and Native North Americans happened in North America.

This discussion is irrelevant to the discussion of the inappropriateness of the use of the chant by some UMD students.

The fact that you felt the need to raise the issue, and your tenor in the entire exchange, wreaks of paranoia and a warped world view.

[Runninwiththedogs]

Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

It's not UND's fault that people yell idiotically racist things. That's the PEOPLE'S fault. PEOPLE need to take responsibility for their actions.

And after tUMD students clean up their act, some other fanbase will do something else. And another. And another. tUMD students aren't the first (or even the worst offenders) and won't be the last. All of those people will be wrong. And none of those people would even make those chants if there was no RACIST NICKNAME. Kill two birds with one stone! Stop the chants and stop the nickname! Is this really that hard to understand? Instead of only stopping the fans' offensive chants/t-shirts/signs, also stop the racist nickname! How does a reactive solution of chastising and punishing students/fans who make these chants/t-shirts/signs, after the harm has already been done, trump a proactive solution, getting rid of the inherently harmful and dehumanizing nickname that also leads to offensive behavior from other fanbases?

Your fanbase threw batteries at opposing players. Was it those fans' faults? Absolutely. Was it an idiotic idea to hand those battery-operated fans or whatever out to drunken students? Yes.

Are we really still discussing whether smallpox was intentionally or unintentionally spread to the native population of the United States? I would suggest using the "ignore" feature for Old Pio. Until you have tried it, you do not know the peace of the ignore button.

[Stauber1]

Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

And after tUMD students clean up their act, some other fanbase will do something else. And another. And another. tUMD students aren't the first (or even the worst offenders) and won't be the last. All of those people will be wrong. And none of those people would even make those chants if there was no RACIST NICKNAME. Kill two birds with one stone! Stop the chants and stop the nickname! Is this really that hard to understand? Instead of only stopping the fans' offensive chants/t-shirts/signs, also stop the racist nickname! How does a reactive solution of chastising and punishing students/fans who make these chants/t-shirts/signs, after the harm has already been done, trump a proactive solution, getting rid of the inherently harmful and dehumanizing nickname that also leads to offensive behavior from other fanbases?

Your fanbase threw batteries at opposing players. Was it those fans' faults? Absolutely. Was it an idiotic idea to hand those battery-operated fans or whatever out to drunken students? Yes.

Ya know, if you had just prefaced your remarks by saying you thought the use of the chant was inappropriate, insensitive and embarrassing to the University of Minnesota - Duluth, the majority of people wouldn't have taken such strong issue with you.

That you chose to omit such an opinion and instead focus entirely on the UND nickname leaves the impression that you don't find any fault with your own fan base.

[Bakunin]

Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

The "kill, maim, pillage, burn" chant is directed at every single team MN plays - no exceptions. So to claim that chant is being racist (or worse) for being directed at UND when their team plays here is utter nonsense. As advocates of a color-blind society, we Gopher fans advocate eating everyone's babies. It's a very pro-active approach to the overpopulation problem. And who doesn't like baby back ribs?

[Runninwiththedogs]

Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

Ya know, if you had just prefaced your remarks by saying you thought the use of the chant was inappropriate, insensitive and embarrassing to the University of Minnesota - Duluth, the majority of people wouldn't have taken such strong issue with you.

That you chose to omit such an opinion and instead focus entirely on the UND nickname leaves the impression that you don't find any fault with your own fan base.

Also people have this Pavlovian response to my name. They immediately see red, fly into a rage, and can't think clearly. Well, some of them can't think clearly with or without my Internet presence. I could say "kittens are cute" and 20 different people would $hit a brick about it.

I can't control your impression, or anyone else's. The nickname is the more insidious problem. I chose to focus on the nickname. I continue to choose to focus on the nickname. I don't really care if people read between lines that don't exist. Other people's projections are their own problem. I haven't really bothered to respond to that many people because what's the point? They see what they want to see, they've written their own little narrative that is so far off track I'll never get it back on again, and I simply don't care if they do. So what if people on the Internets don't like me or the things I have to say? C'est la vie.

[Runninwiththedogs]

Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

The "kill, maim, pillage, burn" chant is directed at every single team MN plays - no exceptions. So to claim that chant is being racist (or worse) for being directed at UND when their team plays here is utter nonsense. As advocates of a color-blind society, we Gopher fans advocate eating everyone's babies. It's a very pro-active approach to the overpopulation problem. And who doesn't like baby back ribs?

Solution: chant "Smallpox Blankets" against all teams. As far as overpopulation, I'll leave aside the flip comment I could make here.

[Dude Love]

Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

Your fanbase threw batteries at opposing players. Was it those fans' faults? Absolutely. Was it an idiotic idea to hand those battery-operated fans or whatever out to drunken students? Yes.

I don't remember any batteries being thrown. I remember battery-operated fans being thrown by both Husky AND Gopher fans, though.

[Bakunin]

Re: Duluth hockey fans warned after racist chants

Solution: chant "Smallpox Blankets" against all teams.

If you want to dodge the racism charge, that's what you have to do - direct the insensitive chants at everyone.

And no matter what a team chooses to call itself, students will always be dicks and chant horrible things. It's human nature in an "us vs them" environment. So I guess the real question is whether or not we wish to call that a problem and be outraged by it. Can anyone legitimately claim that something a student section (or a part of one) chants causes actual harm to someone?

Apparently, schools believe that it can, at least in the sense of embarrassing the school - hence the need for various policies regarding acceptable fan conduct at these games.