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2012 NCAA Tournament: Bracketology

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  • Re: 2012 NCAA Tournament: Bracketology

    Originally posted by Wol4ine View Post
    I ran the numbers. for the last 21 years (since 1991) MIchigan is 29-21 overall in the NCAA. (They had 3 losses that first year, in best of 3 went Cornell 2-1 and BU 0-2). BC has a 29-9 record in that time. Maine is next highest 23-11.
    Michigan hasn't played anyone more than 4 times.
    vs CC 3-1
    vs Wisc 3-1
    vs Minn 2-2
    vs UND 2-2
    vs DU 2-0
    vs Maine 1-3
    vs BU 1-3
    vs UNH 2-1
    vs BC 1-2 (but that was a big 1 in '98)

    @ SJH
    Shouldn't the percentages of games played vs WCHA for UM be the same for MSU? other CCHA teams? They are not.
    UM has played the WCHA 23 times (16-7) out of all 50 (29-21) games in the NCAA's.==>46%
    MSU has played the WCHA 8 times (3-5) out of all 23 (10-13) games in the NCAA's.==>35%
    Miami has played the WCHA 4 times (2-2) out of all 16 (7-9) games in the NCAA's.==>25%
    All other CCHA teams have played the WCHA 11 times (4-7) out of all 44 (21-23) games in the NCAA's.==>25%

    Maine has played the WCHA the next most often, 13 times (7-6)
    BC has played the WCHA the next most often, 12 times (8-4)
    How did you count Northern Michigan from 1991 in that sampling? Similar with Bemidji State from prior to 2011? Basically, did you look at current conference affiliation, or affiliation at the time they played the game?
    North Dakota
    National Champions: 1959, 1963, 1980, 1982, 1987, 1997, 2000, 2016

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    • Re: 2012 NCAA Tournament: Bracketology

      Originally posted by Fighting Sioux 23 View Post
      How did you count Northern Michigan from 1991 in that sampling? Similar with Bemidji State from prior to 2011? Basically, did you look at current conference affiliation, or affiliation at the time they played the game?
      Northern Michigan, then a WCHA member played Alaska-Anchorage (WCHA), Maine (HEA) and BU (HEA) in the '91 tourney.
      "The use of common sense and logic will not be tolerated and may result in fine and/or suspension."- Western Professional Hockey League By-laws. 1999-2000.

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      • Re: 2012 NCAA Tournament: Bracketology

        Originally posted by davyd83 View Post
        Northern Michigan, then a WCHA member played Alaska-Anchorage (WCHA), Maine (HEA) and BU (HEA) in the '91 tourney.
        Problem is Anchorage didn't play in the WCHA until 1993-1994. I believe they were an independent in 1991.
        North Dakota
        National Champions: 1959, 1963, 1980, 1982, 1987, 1997, 2000, 2016

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        • Re: 2012 NCAA Tournament: Bracketology

          I was looking at bracket projections and was reminded of a story, perhaps apocryphal, of an elementary school student who submitted a nearly perfect men's division one NCAA basketball tournament bracket. When asked how he did it, he replied that he imagined a battle between the school mascots! (a Jayhawk might divebomb a Husky and peck at its eyes then flit away before the Husky could bite, a Gator could swallow an Orange in one gulp, etc. etc. -- my examples are not actual examples from the tournament in question).

          I had the amusing mental image of non-hockey people organizing the brackets by team colors....let's put all the red ones here, all the green ones there, etc.
          "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

          "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

          "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

          "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

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          • Re: 2012 NCAA Tournament: Bracketology

            Blue: Air Force, Michigan, UML, Maine

            Maroon(ish): BC, Minnesota, UMD, Ferris, Denver, Union

            Red: BU, Cornell, Miami, Ohio State

            Green: MSU, UND

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            • Re: 2012 NCAA Tournament: Bracketology

              Did y'all see that Moy's latest masterpiece left Ferris in St Paul with Minnesota? I read it about an hour ago, and I can't remember the details. I think that after he took care of the interconference swaps (NoDak for OSU to avoid Ferris, and Miami for Denver to avoid UMD), he then swapped Den/BU for Miami/UMD for attendance at Green Bay and Bridgeport, and he swapped Maine for Michigan State for the sake of attendance at Worcester and St Paul (like St Paul needs any help.....).

              Leaving:
              St Paul : 4-FSU v 14-NoDak; 8-Minnesota v 10-Michigan State (total of 36 combined seedings)
              Green Bay : 2-Michigan v 15-Cornell; 5-UMD v 11-Miami (33)
              Bridgeport : 3-UML v 13-OSU; 6-BU v 12-Denver (34 the hard way)
              Worcester : 1-BC v 16-AHA Champ; 7-Union v 9-Maine (33)

              Comments??

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              • Re: 2012 NCAA Tournament: Bracketology

                I counted NMU in the WCHA when they were in the WCHA, UNO in the CCHA when they were in the CCHA, UAA as independent,BSU as CHA, Vermont I may have screwed up because they were later into the HEA, but I think I had them in the ECAC.

                Yes, I had them in the ECAC. UNH, BC,BU and Maine are the only teams in the HEA that Michigan has played in the NCAA's.

                There have been 15 IntraConference matchups in the WCHA in the Past 21 years.
                There have been 13 IntraConference matchups in the HEA in the Past 21 years.
                There have been 7 IntraConference matchups in the CCHA in the Past 21 years.
                There have been 0 IntraConference matchups in the ECAC in the Past 21 years.
                No man is entitled to the benefits of freedom if he is not vigilant in its preservation. - Douglas MacArthur

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                • Re: 2012 NCAA Tournament: Bracketology

                  I don't take these bracketologies too seriously since the Pairwise can change pretty significantly over a weekend.

                  I just wanted to say that, since this will only be Ferris' second tournament appearance, it is likely they will have a solid following headed out to the regional. With a student body of 11,000 students in Big Rapids alone (not counting other campuses) FSU is a medium size college hockey school. In 2003, when the Bulldogs were sent to Minneapolis there were as many Ferris fans in the building (and the band) as there were North Dakota followers. I understand that the higher seed in the Pairwise gets priority, so Michigan going to Green Bay makes sense this week, but just because the team will likely fly to either Green Bay or St. Paul doesn't mean the regional selection is moot. The vast majority of fans will be driving and most will be leaving the morning of the game. If you're driving from Big Rapids, Green Bay shaves four hours off the drive and eight hours both ways.

                  It's a shame the NCAA insists on putting host teams at their own arena or city, giving big institutions a distinct advantage regardless of merit. Removing the concept of neutral sites really hurts the purity of the tournament. It's no news that the NCAA is a greedy group of people, it just sucks that the money driven ways of college basketball and college football are infecting the integrity of college hockey.
                  Last edited by hattrick16; 02-22-2012, 03:27 PM.
                  "What I get paid for are the practices, I would play the games for nothing."
                  - Tim Horton


                  Ferris State University
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                  • Re: 2012 NCAA Tournament: Bracketology

                    Originally posted by hattrick16 View Post
                    It's a shame the NCAA insists on putting host teams at their own arena or city, giving big institutions a distinct advantage regardless of merit. Removing the concept of neutral sites really hurts the purity of the tournament. It's no news that the NCAA is a greedy group of people, it just sucks that the money driven ways of college basketball and college football are infecting the integrity of college hockey.
                    I agree with your sentiments; at the same time there is a real problem to be addressed somehow. Similar to women's division I NCAA basketball tournament: how do you ask someone to be a host school if they are likely to lose money hosting the event?

                    It's one thing to criticize someone as money-"grubbing;" it is a different thing entirely to ask people to pay money to host an event. Where does the money come from to rent the arena, pay the security staff, etc. etc. if not from tickets and concessions sold to fans attending the games? Are the TV rights enough to cover all these expenses? Does the NCAA have a slush fund they can tap at will to pay for these events? If not, then where does the money come from to run these events?

                    The men's NCAA Division I basketball tournament can afford "neutral sites" because the TV rights generate enough money to pay for them. Women's basketball, men's ice hockey, not so much (though I could be wrong if things have changed in the past several years, as I am working off data that is several years old).
                    "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

                    "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

                    "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

                    "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

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                    • Re: 2012 NCAA Tournament: Bracketology

                      Originally posted by hattrick16 View Post
                      I understand that the higher seed in the Pairwise gets priority, so Michigan going to Green Bay makes sense this week, but just because the team will likely fly to either Green Bay or St. Paul doesn't mean the regional selection is moot. The vast majority of fans will be driving and most will be leaving the morning of the game.
                      Completely agree. Furthermore, I just don't agree with slotting the lowest rated #1 seed and the lowest rated #2 seed together. I know that Ferris probably isn't too far behind the #1 seeds currently in front of them, but why not just send Michigan to St. Paul instead.

                      Originally posted by hattrick16 View Post
                      It's a shame the NCAA insists on putting host teams at their own arena or city, giving big institutions a distinct advantage regardless of merit. Removing the concept of neutral sites really hurts the purity of the tournament. It's no news that the NCAA is a greedy group of people, it just sucks that the money driven ways of college basketball and college football are infecting the integrity of college hockey.
                      It's not just big hockey institutions like Minnesota though. Michigan Tech is the host in GB, Holy Cross in Worcester and Yale in Bridgeport.

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                      • Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                        I agree with your sentiments; at the same time there is a real problem to be addressed somehow. Similar to women's division I NCAA basketball tournament: how do you ask someone to be a host school if they are likely to lose money hosting the event?

                        It's one thing to criticize someone as money-"grubbing;" it is a different thing entirely to ask people to pay money to host an event. Where does the money come from to rent the arena, pay the security staff, etc. etc. if not from tickets and concessions sold to fans attending the games? Are the TV rights enough to cover all these expenses? Does the NCAA have a slush fund they can tap at will to pay for these events? If not, then where does the money come from to run these events?

                        The men's NCAA Division I basketball tournament can afford "neutral sites" because the TV rights generate enough money to pay for them. Women's basketball, men's ice hockey, not so much (though I could be wrong if things have changed in the past several years, as I am working off data that is several years old).
                        Very interesting point. Probably why you see the X hosting as much as they do. They make money when the host there. Does anyone have figures on any recent NCAA hockey regionals?
                        @MNState0fHockey on Twitter
                        On the Web at www.mnhockeycentral.com
                        High School, Gophers, and Wild News on Facebook at Minnesota Hockey Central

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                        • Re: 2012 NCAA Tournament: Bracketology

                          Originally posted by FreshFish View Post
                          I agree with your sentiments; at the same time there is a real problem to be addressed somehow. Similar to women's division I NCAA basketball tournament: how do you ask someone to be a host school if they are likely to lose money hosting the event?
                          I understand, but maybe college hockey and women's college basketball should not be following tournament models that are unsustainable for their sport. Why not have the top seed host the first round, like the NIT, rather than just the schools that can afford to host an entire regional. Or why not have the entire tournament at one site, also like the NIT. There are only 16 teams, it's not like we're dealing with 65.

                          Copying the success of college basketball will not lead to a profitable model for college hockey. Two very different sports with very different fan bases and expectations.
                          "What I get paid for are the practices, I would play the games for nothing."
                          - Tim Horton


                          Ferris State University
                          CCHA Champions 2003 & 2012

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                          • Originally posted by hattrick16 View Post
                            I understand, but maybe college hockey and women's college basketball should not be following tournament models that are unsustainable for their sport. Why not have the top seed host the first round, like the NIT, rather than just the schools that can afford to host an entire regional. Or why not have the entire tournament at one site, also like the NIT. There are only 16 teams, it's not like we're dealing with 65.

                            Copying the success of college basketball will not lead to a profitable model for college hockey. Two very different sports with very different fan bases and expectations.
                            They're going to do whatever makes the most money. Being "fair" isn't their top concern.
                            @MNState0fHockey on Twitter
                            On the Web at www.mnhockeycentral.com
                            High School, Gophers, and Wild News on Facebook at Minnesota Hockey Central

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                            • Re: 2012 NCAA Tournament: Bracketology

                              Originally posted by J.D. View Post
                              It's not just big hockey institutions like Minnesota though. Michigan Tech is the host in GB, Holy Cross in Worcester and Yale in Bridgeport.
                              My error, the word "hockey" is misplaced. "big institutions" in terms of money is what I was trying to say. Minnesota, Yale and Holy Cross have the financial resources to do something like this that many schools do not. I can't speak to Tech's finances.
                              "What I get paid for are the practices, I would play the games for nothing."
                              - Tim Horton


                              Ferris State University
                              CCHA Champions 2003 & 2012

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                              • Re: 2012 NCAA Tournament: Bracketology

                                I apologize for my lack of knowledge....how many years in advance are host schools selected? is there any chance host schools might be picked based on the potential that they might be in the tournament itself? or is the lead time too long for that to be realistic?
                                "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

                                "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

                                "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

                                "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

                                Comment

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