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2012 NCAA Tournament: Bracketology

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  • Re: 2012 NCAA Tournament: Bracketology

    Originally posted by IrishHockeyFan View Post
    At some point the NCAA may decide that empty buildings like those in St Louis and Fort Wayne are not in the best interests of the sport and consider going back to campus sights. For two consecutive seasons the NCAA made it as easy or nearly as easy as possible for Michigan fans to get to a tourney game, even if by car. Who was at fault that so few showed up? Are you going to protest how "unfair" it would be for Yost to go back to hosting NCAA tournament games then? You need to ground yourself a little more in the facts.
    Which two years would those be? You want facts, let's look at facts.

    Michigan's regional bids since 2004 (the year after the last Yost regional):
    2011: St. Louis (9 hour drive from A2, wow, they made it so easy for us!)
    2010: Ft. Wayne (3 hour drive from A2)
    2009: Bridgeport (far)
    2008: Albany (far)
    2007: Denver (far)
    2006: Grand Forks (far)
    2005: Grand Rapids (2 hour drive from A2)
    2004: New Hampshire (far)

    So we've been placed in the Midwest Regional exactly twice. And since the JLA won't host a regional, we're never going to have a regional on our side of the state. Seems fair to me, eh?

    Campus sites may not be "fair," but they're a known entity, and good for fans. Period. Nothing more pathetic than playing in front of an empty arena in Albany, or a library crowd in Denver. At least make it somewhat possible, or attractive, for your fans to actually attend a regional.
    Last edited by UMBand; 02-05-2012, 02:22 PM.

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    • Re: 2012 NCAA Tournament: Bracketology

      UMB,

      Hey. Totally understand the frustration. I don't want to be in the middle of an argument. So, I am asking: Do you think the Committee is out to do Michigan wrong? I mean, they intentionally put the wolverines a long way from AA? Or, do you just think the process is skewed so it comes out that way, and so it should be changed?

      I was looking at the NCAA tourney history, too.
      2011-Michigan in St Louis - 2nd closest.
      2010-Ft Wayne - Closest.
      2009-Bridgeport - 3rd or 4th
      2008-Albany - 3rd
      2007-Denver- probably 2nd, although 2nd,3rd,4th are all the same to you this year
      2006-Grand Forks - 2nd or 3rd
      2005-Grand Rapids - Closest
      2004-Manchester - 4th, although again 2nd,3rd,4th are all the same to you
      2003-Yost
      2002-Yost
      2001-Grand Rapids

      So, this is my thought. As the process currently works, if you are not hosting, and not a high #1 (like 1st or 2nd overall) seed, it's random. You have 8 years there. Twice closest region. That's 1/4. Random. Same with the rest.

      Sometimes I wish it were different, too. But, you have all the schools in mind. If you make it convenient for one school, a different school will complain about preferential treatment. So, random is good.

      Thanks.

      Comment


      • Re: 2012 NCAA Tournament: Bracketology

        Originally posted by mookie1995 View Post
        to many of us old timers, it's funny to hear a complaining UM comment because for a long time Yost was able to host events and UM would get home ice. kudos for the ncaa to stay away from campus sites now, but it does open up the possibility of having games in front of nobody in midsized rinks.

        and i've heard the joe doesn't want anything to do with events where beer sales are 86'd!!
        I wouldn't have a problem if the NCAA was actually trying to stay away from campus sites, but haven't Colorado College, Minnesota, Wisconsin and North Dakota all got regionals on-campus in recent years? Not to mention all the ones that are technically off-campus, but still in the same city as the host school.

        Originally posted by IrishHockeyFan View Post
        Due to the distances between many teams in the west and cities with appropriate facilities, MOST tourney teams don't end up within 100 miles of home. When the committee did Michigan a favor in 2010 by putting them in Fort Wayne to the surprise of most, who was at fault that few Michigan fans showed up despite the easiest travel of any of the four teams assigned there? And how unfair that in the season's ultimate game so many people had the nerve to root for Duluth last year.

        At some point the NCAA may decide that empty buildings like those in St Louis and Fort Wayne are not in the best interests of the sport and consider going back to campus sights. For two consecutive seasons the NCAA made it as easy or nearly as easy as possible for Michigan fans to get to a tourney game, even if by car. Who was at fault that so few showed up? Are you going to protest how "unfair" it would be for Yost to go back to hosting NCAA tournament games then? You need to ground yourself a little more in the facts.
        A big issue with the Fort Wayne regional was that they moved the finals from Sunday afternoon to late Sunday evening, when people had to work on Monday morning (and kids would have to go to school, discouraging families from coming). Because of the overtimes, those of us that went to the game didn't get back to Ann Arbor until something like 1 or 2 am.

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        • Re: 2012 NCAA Tournament: Bracketology

          The NCAA Tourney, where its all bout Michigan

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          • Re: 2012 NCAA Tournament: Bracketology

            Originally posted by Numbers View Post
            UMB,

            Hey. Totally understand the frustration. I don't want to be in the middle of an argument. So, I am asking: Do you think the Committee is out to do Michigan wrong? I mean, they intentionally put the wolverines a long way from AA? Or, do you just think the process is skewed so it comes out that way, and so it should be changed?
            Oh, no, I don't think it's necessarily intentional, but rather the broader process is fundamentally skewed from providing fans and players alike the opportunity to play hockey in an arena that doesn't feel like a library. If you've ever been to a regional, you know the NCAA micromanages it to the nth degree in order to make things as soulless as they possibly can. So you get an arena with everything covered in NCAA logos, each band being given equal time almost timed to the second (alternated with NCAA PSA's on the scoreboards), entire sections of empty seats...

            It's as sterile as can be. Because the NCAA is convinced they're being "fair." It's like they're afraid to offend someone, lest the Denvers of the world pitch another fit about an atmosphere like Yost. And, for the record, after the NCAA said Yost would never be able to host a regional again because it was too intimidating, other schools (like NoDak) were still permitted to host on their campus in the seasons that followed. Or, in the case of the XCel Center, host on sites on the veritable edge of campus. It's a double standard to say the least.

            Plainly, there are so many great college rinks, and the NCAA (first, selectively, and now entirely) is too scared to use them.

            Comment


            • Re: 2012 NCAA Tournament: Bracketology

              Originally posted by Nifty16 View Post
              The NCAA Tourney, where its all bout Michigan
              The NCAA Tourney, where nobody wins, especially New Hampshire

              Comment


              • Re: 2012 NCAA Tournament: Bracketology

                Originally posted by kdilks View Post
                I wouldn't have a problem if the NCAA was actually trying to stay away from campus sites, but haven't Colorado College, Minnesota, Wisconsin and North Dakota all got regionals on-campus in recent years? Not to mention all the ones that are technically off-campus, but still in the same city as the host school.
                I think most reasonable Michigan fans see it in this logic more than any other. If opposing fans are going to use Michigan/Yost as the poster child for not wanting an unfair on-campus regional, then this scenario with the multitude of Minnesota hostings is just as... hypocritical.

                Comment


                • Re: 2012 NCAA Tournament: Bracketology

                  Originally posted by UMBand View Post
                  And, for the record, after the NCAA said Yost would never be able to host a regional again because it was too intimidating, other schools (like NoDak) were still permitted to host on their campus in the seasons that followed. Or, in the case of the XCel Center, host on sites on the veritable edge of campus. It's a double standard to say the least.
                  Please show me where the NCAA actually said this about Michigan and Yost specifically and it is not the delusional ranting of a misguided Michigan fan. I respect the intimidating nature of a Yost crowd, especially in an NCAA game, but try convincing a North Dakota fan it is any more so than one in Grand Forks, for just one example. I'm not saying it isn't true, just that I have never heard that reason being cited specifically about Yost. Streaker, Alfa, Alton, help me out here. You guys I trust.

                  As for your distance arguments, they don't apply because as I noted, most schools often travel great distances to the NCAA locations. Michigan was placed as close as they fairly should have been as often as not, and at least once, a whole lot closer than they should have been.

                  I do agree with UMBand about the micro managing and the sterile atmosphere at too many regionals. But without entirely throwing out the rules in the current process there is likely no truly fair way to change it.

                  Comment


                  • Re: 2012 NCAA Tournament: Bracketology

                    From my understanding the NCAA has said it would like to move away from hosting regionals on campus in general. I sincerely doubt anyone ever said they want to avoid Yost because it's "intimidating".
                    Last edited by mnstate0fhockey; 02-05-2012, 03:56 PM.
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                    • Re: 2012 NCAA Tournament: Bracketology

                      Originally posted by UMBand View Post
                      The NCAA Tourney, where nobody wins, especially New Hampshire
                      Back in the day teams had to go into Yost when Michigan was like a 3-seed. How is that fair to anyone?

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                      • Re: 2012 NCAA Tournament: Bracketology

                        Someone else should have put a bid on that regional. I know that was the case in 2003, where Michigan had the only bid for that regional.
                        FERRIS STATE UNIVERSITY: 2012 FROZEN FOUR


                        God, that was fun...

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                        • Re: 2012 NCAA Tournament: Bracketology

                          Originally posted by mnstate0fhockey View Post
                          From my understanding the NCAA has said it would like to move away from hosting regionals on campus in general. I sincerely doubt anyone ever said they want to avoid Yost because it's "intimidating".
                          Michigan Daily, 2005:
                          http://michigandaily.com/content/fan...-hockey-chants

                          "In addition to the offensive nature of the cheer, Stevenson also cited Michigan’s inability to host an NCAA Regional as a reason to stop or change the cheer. In the 2002 NCAA Regional, Michigan upset No. 2 Denver at Yost Ice Arena, 5-3. Stevenson said that, after the game, Michigan was fined. And Michigan has not hosted a Regional at Yost since then.

                          A media spokesman for Tom Jacobs, the NCAA Director of Championships, said that the reason the Regionals have not been at Yost has less to do with the offensive language than the fact that having the game at Yost gives Michigan an unfair competitive advantage."
                          I was at the meeting the article mentions. It was one of several that winter. It was stated to us in no uncertain terms that the NCAA was no longer interested in holding regionals at Yost because other schools were concerned about the impact of our fans, not only for language, but also for the fact that we were too loud.

                          Yet the question must be asked, does Minnesota have an "unfair competitive advantage" hosting a regional at the XCel Energy Center, a stone's throw from campus? How about North Dakota hosting at the Ralph? Any of the Boston-area schools hosting in Boston or Worcester? New Hampshire in Manchester (where 4-seed UNH beat the 1-seed last year)? The list goes on and on and on. Everyone else can host either adjacent to or in extremely close proximity to their campus. Not Michigan. Or, for that matter, Michigan State. They put the upgrades into Munn, too. No dice.

                          If Michigan "hosts" a regional, we're in Grand Rapids, even though we did everything the NCAA asked us to do to renovate our arena to facilitate an NCAA event. We bid, they say anywhere but Yost, and know JLA is off the table. And that was long before this so-called move away from on-campus arenas.

                          The NCAA can't have it both ways. If they don't want on-campus sites, fine. But they should understand that their ultimate choices of sites indeed provide the "unfair competitive advantage" they're so adamant to avoid, and that "unfair competitive advantage" should be equally accessible to all. If they're so committed to eliminating the "unfair competitive advantage," hold the entire tournament on a rink in a warehouse in the middle of nowhere with no fans, bands, or other embellishments.

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                          • Re: 2012 NCAA Tournament: Bracketology

                            Is there not a minimum seating capacity requirement on facilities also? I thought Yost did not qualify on the basis of that requirement as well.

                            Comment


                            • Re: 2012 NCAA Tournament: Bracketology

                              I think they want 10K.
                              FERRIS STATE UNIVERSITY: 2012 FROZEN FOUR


                              God, that was fun...

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by UMBand View Post
                                No kidding it would be an unfair advantage. But it would be an unfair advantage being held on ANY campus. That's why they are trying to move away from on-campus regionals all together. Trying to make it out to be just a Michigan/Yost thing is ridiculous.

                                Per USCHO

                                On the surface, it sounds like a decent idea in the interest of overall attendance and atmosphere. Nothing will be better than a home rink for fostering an intense, interested setting, but the NCAA has also realized there are overwhelming advantages to playing at home, and we’ve seen in recent years a move away from campus sites for the regionals.
                                Last edited by mnstate0fhockey; 02-05-2012, 04:31 PM.
                                @MNState0fHockey on Twitter
                                On the Web at www.mnhockeycentral.com
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