UConn Hires Consulting Firm

[CHFAN222]

Re: UConn Hires Consulting Firm

Just some random thoughts on all the posts:

-Many of the Hockey East arenas are very modest in size. Granted there are some large one's but 3,000 to 5,000 would be more than adequate. -Agganis for BU seats 6,200 and that is in a metro area in the mecca of Eastern Hockey.
-Matthews is 4,500, Schneider at PC is only 3,030, Lawler at Merrimack only holds 2,489 so there are plenty of arenas on the smallish side.
-Putting UConn (even in the Hockey East) in an arena bigger than say 5,000 people would likely be a waste of space.
-The crowds to a Whale game in Hartford can't be compared as others have pointed out that Hartford is in a metro area and traveling to UConn is a bird of a different feather.
-Last, while Gampel is way too big for UConn hockey, hasn't there been noise that the Basketball team has outgrown Gampel and needs a new area?

A few corrections.

First Matthews used to have a capacity of 5407. However when they did the renovations they expected to loose about 100 seats worth of capacity. After renovations though the Boston Fire Department greatly reduced the capacity.


Another major one is that after UVM joined HE the members of the conference voted on a rule mandating any new members have an arena with a capacity of at least 5,000 current members of course grand fathered in.

[kingdobbs]

Re: UConn Hires Consulting Firm

Not at all, quite the opposite. Geno has griped for the last few years about not being able to sell out Gampel for home games. When the men's team had a couple of years they werent doing well, they didnt sell out either. There's a better chance BU and BC disband their program than Gampel having a hockey rink.

Of course, it's been an open secret that the AD under Hathaway has been steadily pricing hoops tickets out of the reach of a lot of people, and has been very unfavorable to donors and season ticket holders.

[joecct]

Re: UConn Hires Consulting Firm

Good points, Patman. But Union now gives scholarships in the form of loans to foreign students (including Canadians) that do not have to be repaid and that program has been on the rise ever since they started doing that. And RIT is practically in Canada and can give need based aid to Canadians based on American need definitions. Until recently (do not know the current situation) UConn could not give need based aid to foreign students.

On the rink, the north and west walls can be moved out without much trouble. Believe there is room. Seats could be added to the corners. At most, you could probably get to 4,000 capacity without moving the ice. Is that big enough? Dunno. There are some rinks in HE which are no bigger and even less than that, aren't there?

Dick,

If those loans are just to athletes, Union is going to get into hot water with the NCAA. See Potsdam, Geneseo, and (I think) Buffalo St. Also, the days of a wrist slap for improper financial aid at a D-III school are at an end. The NCAA is now talking sanctions for financial aid violations.

[ADK11]

Re: UConn Hires Consulting Firm

Dick,

If those loans are just to athletes, Union is going to get into hot water with the NCAA. See Potsdam, Geneseo, and (I think) Buffalo St. Also, the days of a wrist slap for improper financial aid at a D-III school are at an end. The NCAA is now talking sanctions for financial aid violations.

Union gives out only a small handful of the "international loans" and they do not all go to hockey players, though I would certainly agree that it has helped recruiting.

As for UConn upgrading their program, I think it would be a great move and excellent for college hockey. I would say there is little doubt that if the administration decides to do it that it would be successful.

[Patman]

Re: UConn Hires Consulting Firm

Of course, it's been an open secret that the AD under Hathaway has been steadily pricing hoops tickets out of the reach of a lot of people, and has been very unfavorable to donors and season ticket holders.

Under hathaway (and I wouldn't know further back) I always felt that the athletic department feels that they themselves are the reason for success... and that the fans are there just as a result of what they did. I always felt fan and student relations was cosmetic at best... because they had to more than because they wanted to grow it. It wouldn't shock me if that attitude goes to the other parts as well... "you exist for us" versus "we exist because of you".

[Patman]

Re: UConn Hires Consulting Firm

Dick,

If those loans are just to athletes, Union is going to get into hot water with the NCAA. See Potsdam, Geneseo, and (I think) Buffalo St. Also, the days of a wrist slap for improper financial aid at a D-III school are at an end. The NCAA is now talking sanctions for financial aid violations.

I'm trying to remember which poster had the hard-on for illegal canadian players... was it RST? Thought it was somebody else

Holy Cross is going to steal me lucky charms and all that

[bigmrg74]

Re: UConn Hires Consulting Firm

I also expect that the consulting firm will tell them "Donor outreach, NOW!" even before their first report goes through.

Hell, in this day in age, any college administrator who isn't ready to go shake the can at the drop of a hat with a halfway decent pitch to alumni and the community just ain't pulling their own weight.

[brassbonanza]

Re: UConn Hires Consulting Firm

Under hathaway (and I wouldn't know further back) I always felt that the athletic department feels that they themselves are the reason for success... and that the fans are there just as a result of what they did. I always felt fan and student relations was cosmetic at best... because they had to more than because they wanted to grow it. It wouldn't shock me if that attitude goes to the other parts as well... "you exist for us" versus "we exist because of you".

Hathaway was Perkins' right hand man when he was at UConn, so your correct observation applied to him as well. Big Lew had some great visions, he's the reason there's FBS football at UConn, but he was not a likeable guy, and he drove the building of the pervasive corporate relations which were only furthered under Hathaway.

[Harry Cleverly]

Re: UConn Hires Consulting Firm

If UConn is seriously interested in upgrading its men's hockey program, it seems it would be a logical fit as Hockey East's 12 team. Even though the Huskies have no reputation in major college hockey, the school has much more of a cache in athletics than Holy Cross, RPI or Quinnipiac, who have also been mentioned as potential Hockey East teams.

CT is the only New England state without a HE men's team, and the Huskey women already play in HE. Quinnipiac already have a higher calibre team and facility, but they wouldn't potentially add much to the league, although I am sure they would crawl to Joe Bertagna's office for the opportunity.

The last time I went to a hockey game at UConn it was an open air rink. I know they have been a new facility since, although it is on the small side.

Maybe they could schedule games against BU, BC, UMass and Notre Dame in Hartford and potentially bang out their own small capacity rink against the other Hockey East teams? That would help to build a student following and create some buzz on campus, while the games at Hartford could be marketed as "an event" against high profile opponents and local rival UMass.

I think it could be done ... if UConn wants to do it.

[RSTuthill]

Re: UConn Hires Consulting Firm

Dick,

If those loans are just to athletes, Union is going to get into hot water with the NCAA. See Potsdam, Geneseo, and (I think) Buffalo St. Also, the days of a wrist slap for improper financial aid at a D-III school are at an end. The NCAA is now talking sanctions for financial aid violations.

Actually, Joe, Union does not have to abide by D-3 rules like RIT does. Remember? They were grandfathered in. Union is D-1 in hockey just like our alma mater is. The only reason they call them "loans" is so they can still advertise that they do not give formal scholarships. But what they do give is still governed by D-1 rules.

[RSTuthill]

Re: UConn Hires Consulting Firm

Hockey East also has a rule that all new members must have an arena that seats 5,000 (I'm pretty sure) at the least.

I am quite sure that you and CHFAN222 are correct. But rules were made to be waived, at least temporarily. I do not see this as a big barrier, do you? I am sure that the consulting group can tie this detail down if HE is the direction they end up recommending.

[rpi82]

Re: UConn Hires Consulting Firm

I also expect that the consulting firm will tell them "Donor outreach, NOW!" even before their first report goes through.

This is the key to any program upgrade. Given the other needs within the department (e.g. the basketball practice facility), the tremendous expense (36 scholarships plus facilities) and the uncertainty surrounding the BE and its future revenue streams (any new TV contract will undoubtedly include a provision for renegotiation if more teams leave), the upgrade will only happen if targeted donations are identified as at Penn State. In the best case scenario for the Huskies the AD has identified the donor and the report is necessary to quantify the costs. In the more likely case they'll shop the report to potential donors. How much conflict that would create with BB fund-raising and how long HE would wait (it would take a number of years if forced to get in line behind the BB facility) are major issues.

[CHFAN222]

Re: UConn Hires Consulting Firm

I am quite sure that you and CHFAN222 are correct. But rules were made to be waived, at least temporarily. I do not see this as a big barrier, do you? I am sure that the consulting group can tie this detail down if HE is the direction they end up recommending.

There are a few other things that HE would need to consider before waiving that rule. The other things HE would look into to include but are not limited to:



Will UCONN be financially viable and competitive as a program for many years to come?
Only way to guarantee that is if they endow scholarships for the program.

Will UCONN's fan base travel well to other HE schools and the HE tournament since this will have a major impact on revenue at member schools and the conference?
In the short term I think no. Long term possibly but that is a huge risk.

Will UCONN help with getting better TV deals (NESN, NBC Sports) and better ratings?
Short term probably not but long term there is a lot of potential due to the brand name.

Will they have a true rival in the conference?
This one is probably the simplest answer. Yes they could easily have a nice rivalry going with UMASS and I am sure UMASS would love it as well. Maybe a smaller one against BC but everyone in the conference already feels like they are rivals with BC.

[kingdobbs]

Re: UConn Hires Consulting Firm

Another major one is that after UVM joined HE the members of the conference voted on a rule mandating any new members have an arena with a capacity of at least 5,000 current members of course grand fathered in.

Saying it's a mandate is all well and good, but I think Hockey East has a little more sense than to be absolutely hidebound to that rule. Say, for example, a site study is done on behalf of UConn for upgrading Frietas to HEA standards, but for whatever reason, the study comes back saying that they cannot possibly fit more than 4000 seats in the area without seriously constricting sightlines, parking availability and existing structures (i.e. Morrone Stadium next door), and that there is no suitable spot on campus or near enough to it. Will Hockey East really say "No, thanks?" if that's the only part where UConn falls short of standard? Would they do the same thing for a long established program like Miami or Cornell, if said schools were to ever apply for membership?

This is the key to any program upgrade. Given the other needs within the department (e.g. the basketball practice facility), the tremendous expense (36 scholarships plus facilities) and the uncertainty surrounding the BE and its future revenue streams (any new TV contract will undoubtedly include a provision for renegotiation if more teams leave), the upgrade will only happen if targeted donations are identified as at Penn State. In the best case scenario for the Huskies the AD has identified the donor and the report is necessary to quantify the costs. In the more likely case they'll shop the report to potential donors. How much conflict that would create with BB fund-raising and how long HE would wait (it would take a number of years if forced to get in line behind the BB facility) are major issues.

That's why I'm saying to do it right they've got to get possible donors on board now, who would be willing to commit sight unseen because they want to see hockey at the school, rather than wait for the consultants to release their report, and I think the consultants will tell them to start yesterday.

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: UConn Hires Consulting Firm

Will UCONN's fan base travel well to other HE schools and the HE tournament since this will have a major impact on revenue at member schools and the conference?
In the short term I think no. Long term possibly but that is a huge risk.

As far as travelling goes, I'm not sure it's all that big of a deal for regular season games and QF games. A lot of these schools do well with attendance with minimal travelling fans - that's not to say that HE schools don't travel well, many do but we don't see it until the playoffs and NCAAs roll around ... In other words, they fill up most of their arena with their own fans and only rely on a small % of attendance from opposing fans (not to be confused with big nonpartisan crowds that spike attendance in certain places with capacity that show up when the big boys are in town). When it comes to the HE tournament, it isn't really relevant since Yukon probably wouldn't get out of the QFs for the next what? 20 years? And I'll throw in that they will be a tremendous drag on attendance at the Garden if they do make it by some way of a miracle because of the NCAA bounceyball tournament that coincides with it. That will suck any Uconn yahoo sports fan to the nearest bar or couch to watch their hoops game. We saw some weak BC crowds at this tournament before back when BC had a team that resembled a D1 squad and was in the tournament (2001 was particularly relevant as they played USC that same night as the championship game vs. Providence).

All in all a pretty good post though.

It would take a large donation to get the ball rolling and even then it is a big uphill climb to even get respectable.

I'd rather see HE stays where it is and look to get more OOC games than adding a 12th team for the sake of adding a team.