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brassbonanza
12-20-2011, 02:24 PM
That's probably the best solution right there.

They're not in bad financial straights, in fact, they're good. The department is 100% self-sustaining, with a surplus actually.

kingdobbs
12-20-2011, 02:42 PM
Incorrect. What was just announced was not leaked to the press awhile ago. What was leaked to the press several weeks ago was that they told the AHA they are talking to HE. This is different and is a step that costs a fair amount of money and will be used to justify a decision one way or another. It is also an indication that the trustees will be formally involved when the AD brings the issue to them and makes a recommendation for action.

Then may I offer an edited statement to clarify?

It is unsurprising, based on the prior announcement, that UConn is taking this further step.

LTsatch
12-20-2011, 02:44 PM
Concerning the crowd/rink size issue, 4,000 seats would be a feasable number for college hockey in that area. Yale and Quinnipiac (when playing well) have no trouble attracting 3,000 plus to games. There is a difference though, UCONN is a longer drive and is in a less population dense area. If I lived in Avon or Simsbury, I would probably think twice about making the drive to Storrs twelve times a year. Average attendance at Ct Whale this year is 6,750 so there is surely an audience in the area, but that audience would also have to choose between the two teams unless they do some creative scheduling. I hope UCONN makes the jump.

RSTuthill
12-20-2011, 03:19 PM
Then may I offer an edited statement to clarify?

It is unsurprising, based on the prior announcement, that UConn is taking this further step.
Yeah, agree entirely. It means that their first internal look concluded it was encouraging enough to take to the next level and get an independent assessment from a respected authority. This is what they did with football a decade or so ago. Personally, I think it is an obvious decision to make. Go all in or get out entirely. All in makes the most sense to me, but then I am prejudiced. I credit Pendergast and Herbst, btw. Kudos to them if it happens.

AspyDad
12-20-2011, 04:45 PM
Marshall playing it close in the campus newspaper.
http://www.dailycampus.com/news/ice-hockey-coaches-follow-conference-realignment-1.2731441

kingdobbs
12-20-2011, 07:24 PM
Yeah, agree entirely. It means that their first internal look concluded it was encouraging enough to take to the next level and get an independent assessment from a respected authority. This is what they did with football a decade or so ago. Personally, I think it is an obvious decision to make. Go all in or get out entirely. All in makes the most sense to me, but then I am prejudiced. I credit Pendergast and Herbst, btw. Kudos to them if it happens.

Certainly. I do think it had to have been raised as a possibility when ESPN and the Big East were discussing their pre-defection contract earlier this year (the one that the Big East turned down); there's only so many basketball practice facilities one school can build, after all. According to the last set of OPE data, men's hockey was only spending about $330K a year; even with an $11 mil low-ball offer from ESPN, there's enough money to triple that, put some players on scholarship for once, find a women's sport to counterbalance, and start talking about a facility upgrade.

mookie1995
12-20-2011, 07:50 PM
"SUE!" (that'll be $75,000. thanks)

critsports
12-20-2011, 08:50 PM
Just some random thoughts on all the posts:

-Many of the Hockey East arenas are very modest in size. Granted there are some large one's but 3,000 to 5,000 would be more than adequate. -Agganis for BU seats 6,200 and that is in a metro area in the mecca of Eastern Hockey.
-Matthews is 4,500, Schneider at PC is only 3,030, Lawler at Merrimack only holds 2,489 so there are plenty of arenas on the smallish side.
-Putting UConn (even in the Hockey East) in an arena bigger than say 5,000 people would likely be a waste of space.
-The crowds to a Whale game in Hartford can't be compared as others have pointed out that Hartford is in a metro area and traveling to UConn is a bird of a different feather.
-Last, while Gampel is way too big for UConn hockey, hasn't there been noise that the Basketball team has outgrown Gampel and needs a new area?

Patman
12-20-2011, 09:03 PM
Just some random thoughts on all the posts:

-Many of the Hockey East arenas are very modest in size. Granted there are some large one's but 3,000 to 5,000 would be more than adequate. -Agganis for BU seats 6,200 and that is in a metro area in the mecca of Eastern Hockey.
-Matthews is 4,500, Schneider at PC is only 3,030, Lawler at Merrimack only holds 2,489 so there are plenty of arenas on the smallish side.
-Putting UConn (even in the Hockey East) in an arena bigger than say 5,000 people would likely be a waste of space.
-The crowds to a Whale game in Hartford can't be compared as others have pointed out that Hartford is in a metro area and traveling to UConn is a bird of a different feather.
-Last, while Gampel is way too big for UConn hockey, hasn't there been noise that the Basketball team has outgrown Gampel and needs a new area?

Considering Gampel is physically too small for hockey...

brassbonanza
12-20-2011, 09:16 PM
-Last, while Gampel is way too big for UConn hockey, hasn't there been noise that the Basketball team has outgrown Gampel and needs a new area?
Not at all, quite the opposite. Geno has griped for the last few years about not being able to sell out Gampel for home games. When the men's team had a couple of years they werent doing well, they didnt sell out either. There's a better chance BU and BC disband their program than Gampel having a hockey rink.

Hockey East also has a rule that all new members must have an arena that seats 5,000 (I'm pretty sure) at the least.

CHFAN222
12-20-2011, 09:20 PM
Just some random thoughts on all the posts:

-Many of the Hockey East arenas are very modest in size. Granted there are some large one's but 3,000 to 5,000 would be more than adequate. -Agganis for BU seats 6,200 and that is in a metro area in the mecca of Eastern Hockey.
-Matthews is 4,500, Schneider at PC is only 3,030, Lawler at Merrimack only holds 2,489 so there are plenty of arenas on the smallish side.
-Putting UConn (even in the Hockey East) in an arena bigger than say 5,000 people would likely be a waste of space.
-The crowds to a Whale game in Hartford can't be compared as others have pointed out that Hartford is in a metro area and traveling to UConn is a bird of a different feather.
-Last, while Gampel is way too big for UConn hockey, hasn't there been noise that the Basketball team has outgrown Gampel and needs a new area?

A few corrections.

First Matthews used to have a capacity of 5407. However when they did the renovations they expected to loose about 100 seats worth of capacity. After renovations though the Boston Fire Department greatly reduced the capacity.


Another major one is that after UVM joined HE the members of the conference voted on a rule mandating any new members have an arena with a capacity of at least 5,000 current members of course grand fathered in.

kingdobbs
12-20-2011, 09:47 PM
Not at all, quite the opposite. Geno has griped for the last few years about not being able to sell out Gampel for home games. When the men's team had a couple of years they werent doing well, they didnt sell out either. There's a better chance BU and BC disband their program than Gampel having a hockey rink.

Of course, it's been an open secret that the AD under Hathaway has been steadily pricing hoops tickets out of the reach of a lot of people, and has been very unfavorable to donors and season ticket holders.

joecct
12-20-2011, 10:46 PM
Good points, Patman. But Union now gives scholarships in the form of loans to foreign students (including Canadians) that do not have to be repaid and that program has been on the rise ever since they started doing that. And RIT is practically in Canada and can give need based aid to Canadians based on American need definitions. Until recently (do not know the current situation) UConn could not give need based aid to foreign students.

On the rink, the north and west walls can be moved out without much trouble. Believe there is room. Seats could be added to the corners. At most, you could probably get to 4,000 capacity without moving the ice. Is that big enough? Dunno. There are some rinks in HE which are no bigger and even less than that, aren't there?Dick,

If those loans are just to athletes, Union is going to get into hot water with the NCAA. See Potsdam, Geneseo, and (I think) Buffalo St. Also, the days of a wrist slap for improper financial aid at a D-III school are at an end. The NCAA is now talking sanctions for financial aid violations.

ADK11
12-20-2011, 11:06 PM
Dick,

If those loans are just to athletes, Union is going to get into hot water with the NCAA. See Potsdam, Geneseo, and (I think) Buffalo St. Also, the days of a wrist slap for improper financial aid at a D-III school are at an end. The NCAA is now talking sanctions for financial aid violations.Union gives out only a small handful of the "international loans" and they do not all go to hockey players, though I would certainly agree that it has helped recruiting.

As for UConn upgrading their program, I think it would be a great move and excellent for college hockey. I would say there is little doubt that if the administration decides to do it that it would be successful.

Patman
12-20-2011, 11:15 PM
Of course, it's been an open secret that the AD under Hathaway has been steadily pricing hoops tickets out of the reach of a lot of people, and has been very unfavorable to donors and season ticket holders.

Under hathaway (and I wouldn't know further back) I always felt that the athletic department feels that they themselves are the reason for success... and that the fans are there just as a result of what they did. I always felt fan and student relations was cosmetic at best... because they had to more than because they wanted to grow it. It wouldn't shock me if that attitude goes to the other parts as well... "you exist for us" versus "we exist because of you".

Patman
12-20-2011, 11:16 PM
Dick,

If those loans are just to athletes, Union is going to get into hot water with the NCAA. See Potsdam, Geneseo, and (I think) Buffalo St. Also, the days of a wrist slap for improper financial aid at a D-III school are at an end. The NCAA is now talking sanctions for financial aid violations.

I'm trying to remember which poster had the hard-on for illegal canadian players... was it RST? Thought it was somebody else :confused:

Holy Cross is going to steal me lucky charms and all that

bigmrg74
12-20-2011, 11:21 PM
I also expect that the consulting firm will tell them "Donor outreach, NOW!" even before their first report goes through.Hell, in this day in age, any college administrator who isn't ready to go shake the can at the drop of a hat with a halfway decent pitch to alumni and the community just ain't pulling their own weight.

brassbonanza
12-20-2011, 11:38 PM
Under hathaway (and I wouldn't know further back) I always felt that the athletic department feels that they themselves are the reason for success... and that the fans are there just as a result of what they did. I always felt fan and student relations was cosmetic at best... because they had to more than because they wanted to grow it. It wouldn't shock me if that attitude goes to the other parts as well... "you exist for us" versus "we exist because of you".

Hathaway was Perkins' right hand man when he was at UConn, so your correct observation applied to him as well. Big Lew had some great visions, he's the reason there's FBS football at UConn, but he was not a likeable guy, and he drove the building of the pervasive corporate relations which were only furthered under Hathaway.

Harry Cleverly
12-21-2011, 12:36 AM
If UConn is seriously interested in upgrading its men's hockey program, it seems it would be a logical fit as Hockey East's 12 team. Even though the Huskies have no reputation in major college hockey, the school has much more of a cache in athletics than Holy Cross, RPI or Quinnipiac, who have also been mentioned as potential Hockey East teams.

CT is the only New England state without a HE men's team, and the Huskey women already play in HE. Quinnipiac already have a higher calibre team and facility, but they wouldn't potentially add much to the league, although I am sure they would crawl to Joe Bertagna's office for the opportunity.

The last time I went to a hockey game at UConn it was an open air rink. I know they have been a new facility since, although it is on the small side.

Maybe they could schedule games against BU, BC, UMass and Notre Dame in Hartford and potentially bang out their own small capacity rink against the other Hockey East teams? That would help to build a student following and create some buzz on campus, while the games at Hartford could be marketed as "an event" against high profile opponents and local rival UMass.

I think it could be done ... if UConn wants to do it.

RSTuthill
12-21-2011, 06:16 AM
Dick,

If those loans are just to athletes, Union is going to get into hot water with the NCAA. See Potsdam, Geneseo, and (I think) Buffalo St. Also, the days of a wrist slap for improper financial aid at a D-III school are at an end. The NCAA is now talking sanctions for financial aid violations.
Actually, Joe, Union does not have to abide by D-3 rules like RIT does. Remember? They were grandfathered in. Union is D-1 in hockey just like our alma mater is. The only reason they call them "loans" is so they can still advertise that they do not give formal scholarships. But what they do give is still governed by D-1 rules.