RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

Now that the drama's over, maybe I can mention this without getting jumped...

The last time RPI lost a lead and regained it later in the game... February 4 at Quinnipiac, the game ended in a 3-3 tie.

That was 28 games ago. Since then, they have won a total of 6 games and have lost a lead 6 times. They are 6-20-2 since then.

One thing the four lead losses this season seem to have in common - Clarkson, Union, Princeton, and Union again - there came a time when the other team battled back and we shrunk in response. Perhaps it's just me, but RPI seems to be getting a deserved reputation as a shrinking violet. Give them a little adversity and they'll go away.

I think that it is a lack of confidence combined with the apparent inability to keep up the pressure.

[Red Cloud]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

Jeeeeeeeez !!!!!!!!! thats a bit harsh.

They're 3-13-0 in a season where the coaches picked them to vie for the first round bye. Cake and ice cream aren't exactly on the menu.

[Red Cloud]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

Although the outcome wasn't what we hoped, we came back to tie the game twice, and didn't simply quit. Same with Qpac, and we tried on Saturday, but the penalties kept us from making the most of it.

I disagree - the only difference in those games was when the team packed it in. They deserve credit for coming back to tie against Princeton and in Lake Placid (and at Quinnipiac), but they did lose all of those games in the end. Quinnipiac simply didn't have enough time to eventually pile on following the cave.

As to Ralph's point, if it is a lack of confidence, it's probably conditioned at this point - which would call into question the difficult October schedule.

[FreshFish]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

Perhaps it's just me, but RPI seems to be getting a deserved reputation as a shrinking violet. Give them a little adversity and they'll go away.

that doesn't quite match what I've seen or heard on the radio....it appears to me more often than not (with a few notable exceptions, of course; that always happens when one generalizes) that when the team faces adversity two things happen: they start to press, and they stop thinking clearly. In other words, they are putting more energy into their effort when the energy needs to go into their play. I do not see / hear them 'going away' so much as tightening up.

That indeed is related to confidence, if you define confidence as the experience that comes from mastering a difficult situation under duress. One builds that over time. There is a fine line based on ability and maturity. With some people, you give them a challenge and they expand themselves to meet it, since they believe they can do it, since they've done that before. It's my guess this thinking underlies the challenging out of conference schedule.

At first you react, then you think too much, then you learn to internalize so that you react but from an entirely different plane of awareness. It's too soon to say for sure but it is my surmise that we are in stage two and definitely are NOT packing it in because we simply feel overwhelmed.

[hockeymascot]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

Jeeeeeeeez !!!!!!!!! thats a bit harsh.

It is, but it is also reality! Why sugar coat it?

[engineerhockeyfan]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

Jeeeeeeeez !!!!!!!!! thats a bit harsh.

Is it really? The numbers don't lie.
But I see it from the other side.
We tie a game or get a lead goal and then nothing. We have no second gear. We don't capitalize on the momentum shift that those goals get us. No killer instinct.
Then we take a penalty and all momentum is gone.
I don't see it as shrinking, it is just not adjusting to the push back. JMO

[hockeymascot]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

that doesn't quite match what I've seen or heard on the radio....it appears to me more often than not (with a few notable exceptions, of course; that always happens when one generalizes) that when the team faces adversity two things happen: they start to press, and they stop thinking clearly. In other words, they are putting more energy into their effort when the energy needs to go into their play. I do not see / hear them 'going away' so much as tightening up.

That indeed is related to confidence, if you define confidence as the experience that comes from mastering a difficult situation under duress. One builds that over time. There is a fine line based on ability and maturity. With some people, you give them a challenge and they expand themselves to meet it, since they believe they can do it, since they've done that before. It's my guess this thinking underlies the challenging out of conference schedule.

At first you react, then you think too much, then you learn to internalize so that you react but from an entirely different plane of awareness. It's too soon to say for sure but it is my surmise that we are in stage two and definitely are NOT packing it in because we simply feel overwhelmed.

This is very in depth, and to the normal young adult, too dynamic for them to even comprehend. As for your definition of confidence, are you speaking from an individual or team perspective? Confidence is a very personal mental belief that you will succeed.....and it depends on an individual's mental toughness to determine how easlily one can lose confidence. Team confidence is more collective..........and so is team chemistry and each individual understanding their role on the team, which idenifies you as a team.

This team is still searching for their identity!

[engineerhockeyfan]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

This team is still searching for their identity!

Yes, that totally sums up the problem.
Watching them, you don't know what kind of team they are, so how can they know?

[FreshFish]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

This is very in depth, and to the normal young adult, too dynamic for them to even comprehend.

What?? Aren't these exactly the kinds of life skills people go to college to learn? Don't you rehearse sophisticated detailed techniques in practice over and over so that when it comes time to execute in a game situation, you do it reflexively?

That's how we learned the fundamentals of our sports when I was in college. Granted that was a while ago, and standards across the board are lower now than they were back then; however I don't think the situation is that bad yet!

[hockeymascot]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

What?? Aren't these exactly the kinds of life skills people go to college to learn? Don't you rehearse sophisticated detailed techniques in practice over and over so that when it comes time to execute in a game situation, you do it reflexively?

That's how we learned the fundamentals of our sports when I was in college. Granted that was a while ago, and standards across the board are lower now than they were back then; however I don't think the situation is that bad yet!

If you played the sport of hockey at the Division 1 level, you do learn life skills, however, you do not learn "sophisticated detailed techniques in practice"! There are mental techniques some players use for game preparation, but in practice, you create GOOD habitats and learn concepts which I would hardly define as detailed! You are teaching concepts because this is a game which allows for creativity, and depending on the creativity of each player and their thought process, how they think and react to certain situations will vary.

You can learn all the systems you want, the trick is getting the individual and team as a whole to execute on a consistent basis.......a challenge for any coaching staff!

[DrDemento]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

Now that the drama's over, maybe I can mention this without getting jumped...

The last time RPI lost a lead and regained it later in the game... February 4 at Quinnipiac, the game ended in a 3-3 tie.

That was 28 games ago. Since then, they have won a total of 6 games and have lost a lead 6 times. They are 6-20-2 since then.

One thing the four lead losses this season seem to have in common - Clarkson, Union, Princeton, and Union again - there came a time when the other team battled back and we shrunk in response. Perhaps it's just me, but RPI seems to be getting a deserved reputation as a shrinking violet. Give them a little adversity and they'll go away.

Can't argue with the numbers-but i find it hard to believe that all 20+ players in the game can quit at once. Doesn't this argue for the problem right now being higher up? Bench strategy and coaching?

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

Can't argue with the numbers-but i find it hard to believe that all 20+ players in the game can quit at once. Doesn't this argue for the problem right now being higher up? Bench strategy and coaching?

I don't think they're all quitting at once. I would venture a guess that it's happening by one or two people per line, per shift, and happens at a gradual pace. Still shrinking, but not a Jenga collapse. The confidence, or lack thereof, of whomever stops believing needs to be addressed.

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

I don't think they're all quitting at once. I would venture a guess that it's happening by one or two people per line, per shift, and happens at a gradual pace. Still shrinking, but not a Jenga collapse. The confidence, or lack thereof, of whomever stops believing needs to be addressed.

Thanks to Google for helping me translate "Jenga collapse".

[Senna]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

Can't argue with the numbers-but i find it hard to believe that all 20+ players in the game can quit at once. Doesn't this argue for the problem right now being higher up? Bench strategy and coaching?

Havent posted in a bit as I cant wrap my head around what might really be going on with the team. I also dont think that all 20 players are quitting at the same time. I also agree with the comments that there have been way to many turnovers which have led to scoring opportunities and goals. We do take way to many penalties for the way that we are currently playing. The team sometimes doesnt demostrate a huge sense of urgency - I have felt this from the beginning of the season when we have the power play and seemingly cant get the puck out of our own zone. I do also notice that some of the better teams we have played transition fast and hard in every circumstance. If we are building a team for speed, we should be doing the same.

Also interesting listening to the SA interview after the last Union game and him saying that the team either just doesnt know how to win or is conditioned to losing (or something to that effect). I do believe in this at times and we have all seen teams unacheive for completely unknown reasons. This is where I think we are.

Here's another fact - Colgate, who had a record similar to ours last year (I think something like 3-13-1) is now something like 11-4-2 and has something like a #5 power rating overall. How does that happen, and should we maybe start to view this season in that lens a bit ? Probably in my opinion. All that being said, nothing will come without massive effort and then the question is whether we are sufficiently aggravated by where we are at and play with a style leaving nothing on the table every night.

More later...

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

Havent posted in a bit as I cant wrap my head around what might really be going on with the team. I also dont think that all 20 players are quitting at the same time. I also agree with the comments that there have been way to many turnovers which have led to scoring opportunities and goals. We do take way to many penalties for the way that we are currently playing. The team sometimes doesnt demostrate a huge sense of urgency - I have felt this from the beginning of the season when we have the power play and seemingly cant get the puck out of our own zone. I do also notice that some of the better teams we have played transition fast and hard in every circumstance. If we are building a team for speed, we should be doing the same.

Also interesting listening to the SA interview after the last Union game and him saying that the team either just doesnt know how to win or is conditioned to losing (or something to that effect). I do believe in this at times and we have all seen teams unacheive for completely unknown reasons. This is where I think we are.

Here's another fact - Colgate, who had a record similar to ours last year (I think something like 3-13-1) is now something like 11-4-2 and has something like a #5 power rating overall. How does that happen, and should we maybe start to view this season in that lens a bit ? Probably in my opinion. All that being said, nothing will come without massive effort and then the question is whether we are sufficiently aggravated by where we are at and play with a style leaving nothing on the table every night.

More later...

Colgate was a young team last year that just didn't get things clicking until late in the season. I am not going to even go close to that lens until we start seeing the players discipline their game. I could see where you'd think this is true given that our offense is now starting to gel, but there's too many stupid penalties and stupid mistakes. And that's not just this team; it has been happening all throughout the time I have been following RPI hockey (which includes a couple years of Fridgen).