Ohio State vs Niagara 12/2 - 12/3

[osualum86]

It's a new week and this weekend the Buckeyes will welcome Niagara to the OSU Ice Rink. The Buckeyes are coming off a split with Minnesota-Duluth. The Bucks defeated UMD 4-1 Friday night, but UMD came back with a vengeance and defeated the Buckeyes 6-2 in Saturday's game. Ohio State is currently 4th in the WCHA behind Wisconsin, Minnesota, and North Dakota. The Purple Eagles are a member of the College Hockey America Conference and will come to Columbus with a 7-6-4 record. Ohio State enters with an overall record of 8-5-1, 6-5-1 in the WCHA. I have to admit, no disrespect to Niagara, but after the shellacking against UMD Saturday, I would like to see our kids come out and sweep this weekend. Whether that happens or not remains to be seen. It would be nice to head up to a tough series vs Minnesota (12/10 - 12/11) with some confidence and momentum. Niagara fans, what are your expectations for this series and what can we expect to see from the Purple Eagles?

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Ohio State vs Niagara 12/2 - 12/3

Interesting to see that Niagara has a 3-1 win over Princeton, our opponent on New Years' Weekend.

Looks like the only common opponent in games already played is St. Cloud; the Purple Eagles got a win and a tie in that match-up. Should be a fun weekend.

[osualum86]

Re: Ohio State vs Niagara 12/2 - 12/3

Pgb, thanks for responding to this. I am trying to get some posters involved in OSU womens hockey here. I would like to see a sweep. That would get us to 10-5-1, and possibly a little more respect from the polls, although I did check the pairwise and found that we are ranked 8th in the pairwise. That's very interesting considering we can't seem to crack the top ten in the other polls. I think that series at North Dakota is apparently still weighing heavily with the pollsters. I really believe those bad losses were an aberration, but the polls appear to disagree. All we can do is keep winning. Not to get ahead of the games in front of us, but I hope we make a good showing at Minnesota (ie. at least get a split). That may help with the polls. I'll be at both games this weekend. Looking forward, as always, to your 'three stars of the game' posts!

[PurpleEagles]

Re: Ohio State vs Niagara 12/2 - 12/3

As a huge fan, I'd love to see the Purple Eagles pick up a victory this coming weekend. Niagara took five days off for Thanksgiving last week and haven't played since their 2-2 tie with St Cloud 10 days ago. So I think they'll be fresh and ready to go. The key for a successful weekend is if Coach Sciba can get a match up with Spooner's line and keep her points limited (much easier said than done). If Niagara can limit OSU to 2 goals they maybe be able pull off a split.

A win this weekend would be considered HUGE, but should Niagara get at least a tie, they would come away happy with a 7-7-5 overall record.

Good luck to OSU.... But not too much luck

[osualum86]

Re: Ohio State vs Niagara 12/2 - 12/3

PurpleEagles, thanks for adding some perspective from the Niagara side. Ohio State took off the weekend of 11/11- 11/12 as we had a couple kids at the 4 Nations Cup. We had a road trip at Syracuse the weekend after that and then returned home to host Minnesota-Duluth. Limiting Spooner's points is definitely easier said than done, but UMD found a way in Saturday's game. Take care and good luck to Niagara. For those of you making the trip, have a safe one!

[WCHFan]

Re: Ohio State vs Niagara 12/2 - 12/3

PurpleEagles, thanks for adding some perspective from the Niagara side. Ohio State took off the weekend of 11/11- 11/12 as we had a couple kids at the 4 Nations Cup. We had a road trip at Syracuse the weekend after that and then returned home to host Minnesota-Duluth. Limiting Spooner's points is definitely easier said than done, but UMD found a way in Saturday's game. Take care and good luck to Niagara. For those of you making the trip, have a safe one!

I would think OSU would sweep this weekend and best of luck. Saw the games last weekend and your team looked good on Friday but much slower on Sat. Looked tired. As far as Spooner I noticed on Sat coach put her at D in the 3rd period? Really confused me as I felt it took out of the game. I'm sure he was trying to get her more ice time. I would have just rotated her at Center every other shift?

[osualum86]

Re: Ohio State vs Niagara 12/2 - 12/3

I would think OSU would sweep this weekend and best of luck. Saw the games last weekend and your team looked good on Friday but much slower on Sat. Looked tired. As far as Spooner I noticed on Sat coach put her at D in the 3rd period? Really confused me as I felt it took out of the game. I'm sure he was trying to get her more ice time. I would have just rotated her at Center every other shift?

It sounds like Niagara will come in a little more rested than our team. I didn't make it to Saturday's game so I can't really comment on what happened or regarding Spooner playing D. Were we on the penalty kill, by any chance? Bottom line right now is we are getting hammered by the polls over that series at North Dakota back in October. If we want to get back in the top ten, we have to keep winning and sweep unranked teams at home.

[WCHFan]

Re: Ohio State vs Niagara 12/2 - 12/3

No not on the PP. I think coach just wanted to give her more ice time and put our 4 forwards and 1 D.

The Bucks should sweep and if so I do feel they will jump into the top ten around 8. Might only last for a week as they go to Minny and have always had trouble with them. Remember polls mean nothing.

I do love your passion.

[WCHFan]

Re: Ohio State vs Niagara 12/2 - 12/3

My point is that with Spooner playing forward she had i think 10 shots on goal and when she moved back she maybe had 1 and not a great chance. Not a big fan of UMD and would love to have seen a sweep.

[CanHockGuy]

Re: Ohio State vs Niagara 12/2 - 12/3

It sounds like Niagara will come in a little more rested than our team. I didn't make it to Saturday's game so I can't really comment on what happened or regarding Spooner playing D. Were we on the penalty kill, by any chance? Bottom line right now is we are getting hammered by the polls over that series at North Dakota back in October. If we want to get back in the top ten, we have to keep winning and sweep unranked teams at home.

Focus on the team improving and winning. Polls are for other people to decide. A good playoff position and performance should be their major goals. Being on the right side of an upset is easier than you think.

[osualum86]

Re: Ohio State vs Niagara 12/2 - 12/3

CanHockGuy ... you continue to be the voice of reason. Not sure why I am so concerned about the polls. I guess it's just that I would love to see this senior class get to the NCAA Tournament for the first time in school history. They have been so outstanding here and I would love to see them get rewarded for all that hard work. You are correct, though, let's just focus on getting better and continuing to win games. The polls will take care of themselves. Cannot wait to get to the OSU Ice Rink this weekend!

WCHFan, thank you for the kind words about my passion. It's easy to have that passion when your team has such great kids. We're going to miss the seniors next year!

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Ohio State vs Niagara 12/2 - 12/3

Bottom line right now is we are getting hammered by the polls over that series at North Dakota back in October. If we want to get back in the top ten, we have to keep winning and sweep unranked teams at home.

You piqued my curiousity, so I decided to play around a bit with this week's USCHO Poll. Obviously the rankings are at least partially based on Overall Record from the Current Season. It's long been my conviction that Perceived Conference Strength plays a major role. It's also the case that most voters will be quite familiar with one conference, and relatively unfamiliar with the other three. For that reason, I would expect that Current Standing Within Conference would usually be adopted by those looking in from the outside.

To put the proposed criteria to a simple test, let's delete team names from the rankings. In their place, we'll use conference names along with current standings. (based on overall record) I'll include all teams receiving votes, meaning 14 teams. The resulting list looks like this:

1. WCHA #1
2. WCHA #2
3. ECAC #1
4. Hockey East #2
5. WCHA #3
6. CHA #1
7. Hockey East #4
8. WCHA #4
9. WCHA #6
10. Hockey East #1

11. ECAC #3
12. WCHA #5
13. ECAC #5
14. ECAC #2

The WCHA has 6 of the 14 spots, including the top 2 positions. I'd argue that's fully justified, but it's pretty hard to argue we should have more teams or be ranked even higher.

The ECAC has 4 teams, Hockey East 3 teams, and the CHA 1 team receiving votes. In the case of the ECAC, the rankings look a touch low, though it could also be argued that 4 teams might be one above their "real" share. But overall, it looks a pretty reasonable reflection of perceived conference strength.

Now, what about rank within each conference? We see some minor discrepencies:

Hockey East #1, WCHA #5 and ECAC #2 appear to be a little underrated.
Hockey East #2, Hockey East #4, WCHA #6, ECAC #3 and ECAC #5 appear to be a little overrated.

Who are the underrated teams? Northeastern, Ohio State and Quinnipiac.
Who are the overrated teams? BC, BU, UMD, Harvard and Dartmouth.

The common denominator seems fairly obvious. The teams on the "overrated" list have had considerable national success in recent years, including Frozen Four appearances, The "underrated" teams have certainly been respectable, but haven't really been a factor at the national level. Even if it's not a conscious thought process, the teams that have previously performed on the national stage get a little bit of extra credit in the voting. To the extent a conscious decision is being made, perhaps the thought is that "the cream will eventually rise to the top."

Looked at in this way, the Buckeyes aren't really being singled out, nor is one bad weekend swamping the evaluation. The traditional powers just get a little head start. To move up, we can't just be equal. We have to be at least a little better, and do so over a sustained period of time.

With all that said, I'm not forgetting that the polls are just a beauty contest. And with that thought in mind, the current voting pattern becomes even more understandable, though not fully defensible.

[northhockey]

Re: Ohio State vs Niagara 12/2 - 12/3

You piqued my curiousity, so I decided to play around a bit with this week's USCHO Poll. Obviously the rankings are at least partially based on Overall Record from the Current Season. It's long been my conviction that Perceived Conference Strength plays a major role. It's also the case that most voters will be quite familiar with one conference, and relatively unfamiliar with the other three. For that reason, I would expect that Current Standing Within Conference would usually be adopted by those looking in from the outside.

To put the proposed criteria to a simple test, let's delete team names from the rankings. In their place, we'll use conference names along with current standings. (based on overall record) I'll include all teams receiving votes, meaning 14 teams. The resulting list looks like this:

1. WCHA #1
2. WCHA #2
3. ECAC #1
4. Hockey East #2
5. WCHA #3
6. CHA #1
7. Hockey East #4
8. WCHA #4
9. WCHA #6
10. Hockey East #1

11. ECAC #3
12. WCHA #5
13. ECAC #5
14. ECAC #2

The WCHA has 6 of the 14 spots, including the top 2 positions. I'd argue that's fully justified, but it's pretty hard to argue we should have more teams or be ranked even higher.

The ECAC has 4 teams, Hockey East 3 teams, and the CHA 1 team receiving votes. In the case of the ECAC, the rankings look a touch low, though it could also be argued that 4 teams might be one above their "real" share. But overall, it looks a pretty reasonable reflection of perceived conference strength.

Now, what about rank within each conference? We see some minor discrepencies:

Hockey East #1, WCHA #5 and ECAC #2 appear to be a little underrated.
Hockey East #2, Hockey East #4, WCHA #6, ECAC #3 and ECAC #5 appear to be a little overrated.

Who are the underrated teams? Northeastern, Ohio State and Quinnipiac.
Who are the overrated teams? BC, BU, UMD, Harvard and Dartmouth.

The common denominator seems fairly obvious. The teams on the "overrated" list have had considerable national success in recent years, including Frozen Four appearances, The "underrated" teams have certainly been respectable, but haven't really been a factor at the national level. Even if it's not a conscious thought process, the teams that have previously performed on the national stage get a little bit of extra credit in the voting. To the extent a conscious decision is being made, perhaps the thought is that "the cream will eventually rise to the top."

Looked at in this way, the Buckeyes aren't really being singled out, nor is one bad weekend swamping the evaluation. The traditional powers just get a little head start. To move up, we can't just be equal. We have to be at least a little better, and do so over a sustained period of time.

With all that said, I'm not forgetting that the polls are just a beauty contest. And with that thought in mind, the current voting pattern becomes even more understandable, though not fully defensible.

I agree with your logic. Teams in the WCHA have been constantly snubbed and underrated for the simple fact they play in the toughest conference in d-1 women's hockey. and when all teams play each other 4 times a season, a lot of teams in the conference will not have as many wins as eastern teams. but this does not mean that the team should be ranked below a eastern team. you also have to take in account that coaches vote on this poll too and not every coach believes the difference in conference strength.

so in the uscho poll, it may seem unfair to lower wcha teams. an example of this would be und last year, who i believe should have made the tournament. but then again the ncaa determines who is in the tournament not the uscho pollsters. so my assesment is that you must prove your worth and HOPE for the best..once you have built a reputation of winning, you get respect.

[osualum86]

Re: Ohio State vs Niagara 12/2 - 12/3

You piqued my curiousity, so I decided to play around a bit with this week's USCHO Poll. Obviously the rankings are at least partially based on Overall Record from the Current Season. It's long been my conviction that Perceived Conference Strength plays a major role. It's also the case that most voters will be quite familiar with one conference, and relatively unfamiliar with the other three. For that reason, I would expect that Current Standing Within Conference would usually be adopted by those looking in from the outside.

To put the proposed criteria to a simple test, let's delete team names from the rankings. In their place, we'll use conference names along with current standings. (based on overall record) I'll include all teams receiving votes, meaning 14 teams. The resulting list looks like this:

1. WCHA #1
2. WCHA #2
3. ECAC #1
4. Hockey East #2
5. WCHA #3
6. CHA #1
7. Hockey East #4
8. WCHA #4
9. WCHA #6
10. Hockey East #1

11. ECAC #3
12. WCHA #5
13. ECAC #5
14. ECAC #2

The WCHA has 6 of the 14 spots, including the top 2 positions. I'd argue that's fully justified, but it's pretty hard to argue we should have more teams or be ranked even higher.

The ECAC has 4 teams, Hockey East 3 teams, and the CHA 1 team receiving votes. In the case of the ECAC, the rankings look a touch low, though it could also be argued that 4 teams might be one above their "real" share. But overall, it looks a pretty reasonable reflection of perceived conference strength.

Now, what about rank within each conference? We see some minor discrepencies:

Hockey East #1, WCHA #5 and ECAC #2 appear to be a little underrated.
Hockey East #2, Hockey East #4, WCHA #6, ECAC #3 and ECAC #5 appear to be a little overrated.

Who are the underrated teams? Northeastern, Ohio State and Quinnipiac.
Who are the overrated teams? BC, BU, UMD, Harvard and Dartmouth.

The common denominator seems fairly obvious. The teams on the "overrated" list have had considerable national success in recent years, including Frozen Four appearances, The "underrated" teams have certainly been respectable, but haven't really been a factor at the national level. Even if it's not a conscious thought process, the teams that have previously performed on the national stage get a little bit of extra credit in the voting. To the extent a conscious decision is being made, perhaps the thought is that "the cream will eventually rise to the top."

Looked at in this way, the Buckeyes aren't really being singled out, nor is one bad weekend swamping the evaluation. The traditional powers just get a little head start. To move up, we can't just be equal. We have to be at least a little better, and do so over a sustained period of time.

With all that said, I'm not forgetting that the polls are just a beauty contest. And with that thought in mind, the current voting pattern becomes even more understandable, though not fully defensible.

Pgb, great analysis. In regard to polls, you're obviously going by the pairwise rankings as we are only in the 'others receiving votes' section of the other polls, which are the ones I have been questioning. I guess in the end, the pairwise rankings are the ones that really matter. In the other polls, you'll find WCHA #5 and WCHA #6 ahead of WCHA #4.

[ARM]

Re: Ohio State vs Niagara 12/2 - 12/3

In regard to polls, you're obviously going by the pairwise rankings as we are only in the 'others receiving votes' section of the other polls, which are the ones I have been questioning.

No, pgb is using the USCHO D-I Women's Poll, and the 11-14 rankings are coming from the others receiving votes. The confusion may come from labeling Ohio State WCHA #5, when they are actually the 4th place team in the WCHA standings; however, note the explanation that overall winning percentage is being used, not conference points.