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  • Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program

    Originally posted by bothman View Post
    One more point. McQueary is not a whistle-blower. A whistle-blower implies that you are reporting on a colleague. Sandusky was not a coach. He was not an employee of the university in 2002. Whistle-blower is an incorrect description for McQueary.
    Sandusky was retired at the time, and allowed access to the Penn State facilities because of his "emeritus status." The title was bestowed to him by Penn State University. So you could say that he was like a tenured professor.

    McQueary was an unpaid grad assistant, for all practical purposes an "intern" at the time.

    This is a very complicated legal situation that you're trying to make simple.

    Clearly Penn State lawyers are going to be very carefully how they handle McQueary.
    Last edited by dggoddard; 11-10-2011, 05:32 PM.

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    • Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program

      Originally posted by bothman View Post
      One more point. McQueary is not a whistle-blower. A whistle-blower implies that you are reporting on a colleague. Sandusky was not a coach. He was not an employee of the university in 2002. Whistle-blower is an incorrect description for McQueary.
      I would guess that the reason for the lack of any action on McQueary by the BoT is that they are still trying to figure out the implications of firing him, like we are here. They need to be sure that they don't open themselves up to further legal liability before making any actions. I would guess that as soon as they are confident that they can be rid of McQueary without putting the university at risk of facing another lawsuit, he will be gone. If for no reason other than simply cleaning house.
      Having a clear conscience just means you have a bad memory or you had a boring weekend.

      RIP - Kirby

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      • Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program

        There should be little to no impact on the hockey program or any athletic program and, in time, not much impact on the FB program IF and only IF they gas McQueery immediately!!! He should have been fired before Joe Pa. IMO, he is the one who should have gone to the police after Paterno had reported it and nothing was done. First, they had to go up the ladder internally because the agreement between the local police and the campus police is that they won't come on campus unless inveited. When the Administration swept it under the rug, it was the moral responsibility of the grad assistant to report it to the police. Paterno couldn't because he
        didn't see anything. Maybe Jo Pa should have taken the grad assistant to the police. Many, many people knew or highly suspected that a problem existed and it should have been stopped in or about 2002. There's certainly enough blame to go around!!!

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        • Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program

          Originally posted by dggoddard View Post
          Sandusky was retired at the time, and allowed access to the Penn State facilities because of his "emeritus status." The title was bestowed to him by Penn State University. So you could say that he was like a tenured professor.

          McQueary was an unpaid grad assistant, for all practical purposes an "intern" at the time. This is a very complicated legal situation that you're trying to make simple.

          Clearly Penn State lawyers are going to be very carefully how they handle McQueary.
          I disagree.

          It's a very simple situation and you are trying to over-complicate with legal complexity. You don't need lawyers or fancy lawyer jargon to understand this. This is a story about human beings at their very, very worst.

          Yes, the clean-up & the removal of the waste may require some leagl intervention (only to avoid a lawsuit), but again, this situation was very simple.

          If I saw my boss beating or raping a defenseless woman outside of my office, would I run home to talk to my wife, and then report it to my boss's boss the next day? Or would I call the cops right then & there?

          Dgooddard - please tell me how what I do in that situation is complex?

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          • Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program

            Originally posted by bothman View Post
            Yes, the clean-up & the removal of the waste may require some leagl intervention (only to avoid a lawsuit), but again, this situation was very simple.
            I'm pretty sure that this is exactly what he's saying is the complex legal part...I'm not sure what you're arguing here.
            Having a clear conscience just means you have a bad memory or you had a boring weekend.

            RIP - Kirby

            Comment


            • Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program

              I don't understand how you can say there will be little to no impact on the hockey program, etc. This story has just begun--more will come out and it won't go away. PSU has a long way to go before their image is restored. There's already been one star football recruit tweet about maybe changing his mind on PSU. This is in the minds of parents everywhere and they most certainly have an impact on where their children will go to school.

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              • Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program

                Originally posted by bothman View Post
                I disagree.

                It's a very simple situation and you are trying to over-complicate with legal complexity. You don't need lawyers or fancy lawyer jargon to understand this. This is a story about human beings at their very, very worst.

                Yes, the clean-up & the removal of the waste may require some leagl intervention (only to avoid a lawsuit), but again, this situation was very simple.

                If I saw my boss beating or raping a defenseless woman outside of my office, would I run home to talk to my wife, and then report it to my boss's boss the next day? Or would I call the cops right then & there?

                Dgooddard - please tell me how what I do in that situation is complex?
                Perhaps a better analogy would be you saw your older brother committing a violent or unspeakable act. Are you so sure you would act immediately? Are you so sure you would call the police on him? If you didn't, are you a coward, or just trying to "protect" or save your family?
                Last edited by dggoddard; 11-10-2011, 05:47 PM.

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                • Originally posted by J.D. View Post
                  I don't understand how you can say there will be little to no impact on the hockey program, etc. This story has just begun--more will come out and it won't go away. PSU has a long way to go before their image is restored. There's already been one star football recruit tweet about maybe changing his mind on PSU. This is in the minds of parents everywhere and they most certainly have an impact on where their children will go to school.
                  That's because the football coach just got fired. It's reasonable the recruits would rethink their decision. There is nothing to suggest any other sport would be affected. Did Duke lose bball recruits during the lax fiasco? Are you saying high school seniors are going to stop applying there? Unlikely.

                  For as many people who may not go there in the future because of this, there will be just as many who go there to help rebuild it. The net effect will be neglible
                  “Unless you’re Boston College, you don’t get here every year.”

                  Pinhead Nation: "gone" but not forgotten

                  Originally posted by shrader
                  Admin, do you still hate BC? If not, will darin and MAV ever be freed? If you do still hate BC, why is SteveF allowed to post?
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                  • Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program

                    Originally posted by dggoddard View Post
                    Of course you would turn in your boss, because you would get his job the next day.

                    Perhaps a better analogy would be you saw your older brother committing the violent act. Are you so sure you would act immediately?
                    Let me think....Yes I would.

                    Again, I leave you with this quote & maybe it will change your mind on the "complexity" McQueary faced:

                    “None of us know our end, really, or what hand will guide us there. A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man ...truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power. When you stand before God, you cannot say, "But I was told by others to do thus," or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice. Remember that.”

                    McQueary & PSU put convenience before virtue - and that is why this thing is blowing up in their faces & will get worse as the special committee gets more details...more heads will surely fall.
                    Last edited by bothman; 11-10-2011, 05:49 PM.

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                    • Originally posted by J.D. View Post
                      I don't understand how you can say there will be little to no impact on the hockey program, etc. This story has just begun--more will come out and it won't go away. PSU has a long way to go before their image is restored. There's already been one star football recruit tweet about maybe changing his mind on PSU. This is in the minds of parents everywhere and they most certainly have an impact on where their children will go to school.
                      Will it hurt recruiting, etc?? Maybe. Will it stop them from launching a program?? Highly doubtful IMO.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by dggoddard View Post
                        Perhaps a better analogy would be you saw your older brother committing a violent or unspeakable act. Are you so sure you would act immediately? Are you so sure you would call the police on him? If you didn't, are you a coward, or just trying to "protect" or save your family?
                        Yes. No question. No hesitation.

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                        • Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program

                          Originally posted by dggoddard View Post
                          Sandusky was retired at the time, and allowed access to the Penn State facilities because of his "emeritus status." The title was bestowed to him by Penn State University. So you could say that he was like a tenured professor.

                          McQueary was an unpaid grad assistant, for all practical purposes an "intern" at the time.

                          This is a very complicated legal situation that you're trying to make simple.

                          Clearly Penn State lawyers are going to be very carefully how they handle McQueary.
                          McQuery had 9 years to do something else about this. He likely saw Sandusky with other young kids as players from that period reported Sandusky was a frequent visitor to the football facility, was still involved at the charity and we know he committed other acts against other boys.

                          Regardless of who he told once or his ability to claim whistleblower...the university should fire him and dare him to sue...then take it to a jury and dare his lawyer to convince 12 people what he did was ok and what the school did was wrong.

                          Even if they lose, they win. The money lost will be a drop in the bucket...they will do more by saying they won't let anybody else hide behind legal technicalities to absolve themselves of their involvement in this crime and aren't going to measure this in dollars and cents. Look where their 'protect the school' mentality got them so far.

                          I'm not saying that avoiding a whistleblower suit (if you believe there could be one) isn't the right thing to do XX% of the time...I just think this is the exception.


                          I hear many people refer this to passing by a crime on the street...I disagree...this is like passing by the same crime every day when even an anonymous note to a reporter or the police would have brought this to a halt. There is no 'I froze' or 'I was worried for my safety' defense over 9 years. He didn't even quit and go somewhere else. I say the school hangs him out to dry too and lets public opinion back them up...even if they lose a few million $$.
                          Last edited by pirate; 11-10-2011, 05:56 PM.
                          I believe in life, and I believe in love, but the world in which I live in keeps trying to prove me wrong.

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                          • Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program

                            Originally posted by SteveF View Post
                            That's because the football coach just got fired. It's reasonable the recruits would rethink their decision. There is nothing to suggest any other sport would be affected. Did Duke lose bball recruits during the lax fiasco? Are you saying high school seniors are going to stop applying there? Unlikely.

                            For as many people who may not go there in the future because of this, there will be just as many who go there to help rebuild it. The net effect will be neglible
                            This goes beyond football. This is a huge black mark for the university as a whole. Obviously they will still get applications, but I absolutely think there are going to be plenty of parents who have to think twice about their kid going to PSU. I'm not even saying they will never be able to rebuild. I'm just saying this will last a while. A significant impact will be felt beyond just football.

                            Originally posted by JDUBBS1280 View Post
                            Will it hurt recruiting, etc?? Maybe. Will it stop them from launching a program?? Highly doubtful IMO.
                            Oh, I agree with that. Never questioned them being able to launch the program.

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                            • Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program

                              Originally posted by dggoddard View Post
                              Perhaps a better analogy would be you saw your older brother committing a violent or unspeakable act. Are you so sure you would act immediately? Are you so sure you would call the police on him? If you didn't, are you a coward, or just trying to "protect" or save your family?
                              If I saw my brother raping a 10 year old boy (thanks for that vision) I would definitely stop him. Do you even have to question whether you would your own brother? Really?

                              BTW, Sandusky and McQuery were hardly tight like brothers.

                              You're trying to make intervening to stop a violent act on a child into a gray area when it couldn't be any more black and white. Quite possibly the single most black and white issue I could possibly think of.

                              Why would you try to defend this position? Do you really believe this or are you working on your debating skills?

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                              • Re: Penn State scandal and its effect on the rising hockey program

                                Originally posted by pirate View Post
                                McQuery had 9 years to do something else about this. He likely saw Sandusky with other young kids as players from that period reported Sandusky was a frequent visitor to the football facility, was still involved at the charity and we know he committed other acts against other boys.
                                OK you got me there. He should of come forward sooner. Much sooner. It sure appears that he was paid off with a coaching job.
                                Last edited by dggoddard; 11-10-2011, 06:17 PM.

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