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Shirtless Guy
10-27-2011, 04:24 PM
The skiing was bad those weekends.No I bet there was an issue with the Eisenhower tunnel those other weekends so people didn't make it back in time for the games when SCSU & UNO were in town...:D

huskyfan
10-27-2011, 04:40 PM
This thread used to be hilarious. We used to talk about hockey! What happened to you guys? :confused:

what the heck are you talking about?? its not Friday yet!

bunt_q
10-27-2011, 04:50 PM
oh I'm sure thats just because MTU weekends are those where they have give aways and huge discounts and I'm sure half of those people that paid never showed up...:rolleyes:

Notice that SCSU was not one of the games I labeled as being particularly interesting. SCSU wasn't my first choice (or anybody's, obviously - but we needed an 8th, and they're the best choice out there). And UNO on New Years Day...eh. But fine, argue against my generalities with every exception you can find. I still stand by them as being the more interesting opponent. You don't have to agree, but then, you're not the one we need to fill CC's/DU's arena. What part of "we would just rather play somebody else" can't you accept? Is it that hard to accept that Tech isn't my favorite opponent to watch? Is it that hard to accept that my personal affinity with far-off Houghton hovers right around my personal affinity with Venezuela? I'm sorry that hurts your feelings, but it doesn't change the fact that my priorities go 1. Game vs. UND/UMD/UNO, 2. Day at Copper Mountain, 3. Game vs. Michigan Tech, 4. Pulling Fingernails, 5. Game vs. Mankato/Bemidji.


Finally!! The "We have better things to do than support our team!" argument. Well struck!

Just a fact of life living here. Like I said, every sport (except the Broncos and their whopping 8 games/year) faces it. If we're only going to limit "fans" to those who will prioritize that team over everything else in their life on every game day, well, then I confess, Colorado is an awful sports state. I wish I could, but I just can't be everywhere at once.

Or you could look at it as Minnesota and Michigan suck in the winter. Which is how I think most Coloradans would view it. But that's a different discussion. :)

state of hockey
10-27-2011, 04:57 PM
And most Minnesotans would think of anyone that can't handle the temps as wimps. If you can't find anything to do in the winter here, by all means go to Colorado and ski. Because that's the only difference.

huskyfan
10-27-2011, 04:58 PM
Co

It's hard to choose what to do here. You've got the Avs, college hockey, and the mountains, just to name a few. Plus actually playing some hockey. And an actual city full of activities, too (I feel sort of guilty that the Colorado Symphony is suffering - but I just can't seem to squeeze in more than a couple concerts per winter). I've been trying for years to get up to a Colorado Eagles (ECHL) game, and I've still never seen one. There's just too much going on every single weekend. Maybe I'll make that happen this season - no ski pass for me, not this year. But welcome to Colorado, the winter wonderland - we can pick and choose our activities, so they'd better be good if you want to draw a crowd.


perfect, on cue, in tune, on time and under budget. :rolleyes:
you call it "Rocky Mountain Arrogance'. we just say "d0uche bag"

bunt_q
10-27-2011, 05:02 PM
Along the same lines...

Since we are fortunate enough that both CC and DU are out of town, and are therefore permitted to partake in other activities without losing our privileged status as college hockey "fans"...

This weekend is the Annual 14ers Winter Welcomer climb of Quandary. Any college hockey fans are welcome to come, info and RSVP here:

http://www.14ers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=32900

Can also PM me. It'll be crowded as can be, but it should be fun.

Of course, I can't guarantee you'll be back in time for the puck drop. If you'd prefer to sit at home alone with two different gamecasts on the radio/live streaming, the score update thread open, and a score sheet in hand, well, then you're a REAL fan.


And most Minnesotans would think of anyone that can't handle the temps as wimps. If you can't find anything to do in the winter here, by all means go to Colorado and ski. Because that's the only difference.

Right...skiing is the only difference.

EDIT: There's also a big difference between the Twin Cities and, say, Mankato, or even St. Cloud. I wouldn't say the TC suck in the winter, not at all. Plenty of distractions there. I think it's fair to say, though, that winter recreation is...different in MN. It's probably not a multi-billion-dollar part of your economy, for one. But I wouldn't even dream of comparing Minnesota to the U.P. - no comparison. My beef's not with Minnesota here. :)

bunt_q
10-27-2011, 05:11 PM
perfect, on cue, in tune, on time and under budget. :rolleyes:
you call it "Rocky Mountain Arrogance'. we just say "d0uche bag"

Dang, you guys are touchy... I was only trying to explain a phenomenon well known in Colorado sports... whether it's football, baseball, hockey, doesn't matter. Why is it so hard to accept that the attendance dynamics are not the same in every town?

I think it's pretty obvious which "side" in this debate is the butt-hurt one. Haha, http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=butt+hurt Bruised feelings? Not anybody in the NCHC.

On your comment though... I can accept being called arrogant from folks in Michigan. State motto: Last One Out Get The Lights.

huskyfan
10-27-2011, 05:14 PM
Along the same lines...

Since we are fortunate enough that both CC and DU are out of town, and are therefore permitted to partake in other activities without losing our privileged status as college hockey "fans"...

This weekend is the Annual 14ers Winter Welcomer climb of Quandary. Any college hockey fans are welcome to come, info and RSVP here:

http://www.14ers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=32900

Can also PM me. It'll be crowded as can be, but it should be fun.

Of course, I can't guarantee you'll be back in time for the puck drop. If you'd prefer to sit at home alone with two different gamecasts on the radio/live streaming, the score update thread open, and a score sheet in hand, well, then you're a REAL fan.



Right...skiing is the only difference.

I'll just sit at home and watch you. :p

huskyfan
10-27-2011, 05:22 PM
Dang, you guys are touchy... I was only trying to explain a phenomenon well known in Colorado sports... whether it's football, baseball, hockey, doesn't matter. Why is it so hard to accept that the attendance dynamics are not the same in every town?

I think it's pretty obvious which "side" in this debate is the butt-hurt one. Haha, http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=butt+hurt Bruised feelings? Not anybody in the NCHC.

On your comment though... I can accept being called arrogant from folks in Michigan. State motto: Last One Out Get The Lights.

Colorado's : If You Don't Ski, Don't Bother

yesh30
10-27-2011, 05:25 PM
Or we gave you a 2 year heads up that we're dumping your sorry a$s, which isn't so absurd since you haven't put out in like 30 years. :)

hey its alright, DU was one of Techs 4 wins last year, that had to sting just a little...just sayin

Shirtless Guy
10-27-2011, 05:30 PM
Those are the ones who are going to be more interested in Duluth (Minnesota in the name), Miami (an actual real D-1 school that some non-hockey people have heard of), North Dakota, or Nebraska-Omaha (neighborly love).Minnesota is in the name of Minnesota State-Mankato so why is that different that Duluth? Why is North Dakota valid for the casual fan you're talking about? Because they've heard of the state before? please...:rolleyes:

bunt_q
10-27-2011, 05:42 PM
Minnesota is in the name of Minnesota State-Mankato so why is that different that Duluth? Why is North Dakota valid for the casual fan you're talking about? Because they've heard of the state before? please...:rolleyes:

North Dakota is known even for casual hockey fans. And half their state moved here it seems... (more in Colorado Springs, I assume it's the military connection).

University of Minnesota-Duluth... Minnesota State Mankato... you don't think there's a difference there? I dunno.

I do know Mankato is generally considered to be crappy boring opponent. And Duluth isn't. Duluth seems like a hockey town. Mankato seems like...well, Iowa State football or something. Frankly, I don't care WHY that is. I know who I'd rather play, and CC/DU/UND went out and found a way to make it happen. You don't have to like it. But I do.

Just don't say nobody's being honest with you. We don't like to play you, we consider you lesser schools, good riddance, we threw you under the bus, thump thump, and that's that. Whine whine whine. Nothing to do in Houghton but whine.

Better question - if you were CC/DU/UND... who would you have taken along, assuming they'd come? Which 5, of the schools you could get? Obvious answer...held the WCHA together, tradition, blah blah... NO, pick 5 schools. If you were building a league, which 8 would you want? Or better yet, if Tech had the wherewithal to pull along 7 of its best friends, what is the league you would have built? Surely your ideal league wouldn't have looked just like the post-BTHC WCHA, would it have?



Colorado's : If You Don't Ski, Don't Bother

Common myth. You don't realize how many natives don't ski at all. Plenty of things to do besides that. Basically, everything you can do in flat woods, plus a few things. And a city, something no team in the remainder-WCHA has to distract them from their plight. I do give Minnesota props for better ice fishing. Not sure about Michigan. If I lived up north, I'd have me a little hut on a lake. Permanent shelters aren't allowed here. But that's the only big difference I can think of.

huskyfan
10-27-2011, 05:59 PM
huskyfan unloaded. huskyfan comes alive. huskyfan: wanted dead or alive.

Colorado is a state of newcomers. Denver is very much a bandwagon town. When you are the hot ticket - great! if not - nobody turns out to see you. Look at the Avs - Denver did invent hockey, didn't it? that whole Patrick Roy, Stanley Cup thing? - a couple of bad seasons and the team could be moving. How 'bout them Broncos? - without Tim Tebow, there'd be no one in the stadium. Rockoctober - not this season, there wasn't even a RockJuly. move on to the next thing, be it skiing, boarding, mountain biking, kayaking, ice climbing.
I think its hard for you to understand how rooted in a culture a sport can be. Canada, Minnesota, Michigan, Massachusetts. we grew up with it. our fathers and brothers played it. we played it. we skated before we walked. we played street hockey. we skated on frozen lakes and ponds. we had to be forced to come in from outside. we worshipped Gordie Howe and Bobby Hull and Bobby Orr. we stop if we see a pick up game going in the park. and yes, the hockey sweater mattered. "he's in, he shoots, he scores" - we knew that on the radio and TV long long before we believed in miracles. we stuck with our teams. sure, its a sport, entertainment. but it a little more to us. it's woven into our culture. someday, DU will regret having thrown away a league they help found over 60 years ago. I think they will regret having thrown away a historic trophy for some personal egos. I think those "arduous road trips" - which go both ways, BTW - will mean something to them. perhaps the history will mean something. that big TV deal may not materialize. and it will come down to butts in the seats. but hey, if not, you'll always have heli-rafting.

sorry F2B&G. guess I am still bitter.

huskyfan
10-27-2011, 06:09 PM
just for the record, bunt. I am a resident of Colorado. I can sit and watch you climb Quandary from my living room. (its a candy *** 14er for appleknockers)
permanent shelters? I'll bet you a tricked out ice house over Silt or Basalt or Montezuma or Hartsel any day.

JohnsonsJerseys
10-27-2011, 06:14 PM
Tech, ... like I said before, even if those schools are winning - there's still no connection, and the average fan wouldn't care.

You can't have a 4 team league, so there had to be a few others.

I'd bet less than a third of fans at any given game in Colorado - DU, CC, or Air Force - could tell you where Michigan Tech was from,

There's a cadre of regulars, but most fans are more of the casual variety. Casual hockey fans generally, may not have a clue about the college game.

(I feel sort of guilty that the Colorado Symphony is suffering - but I just can't seem to squeeze in more than a couple concerts per winter).

We live in different worlds.

So there is no connection to Tech? I guess with only 50 years in the same league it is hard to find a connection.
Yes, you can have a four team league - Go restart the CHA. If your teams are so great, they won't need an autobid.
If your fans don't know where MICHIGAN Tech is from, I recommend a geography refresher course. Do they know where Western MICHIGAN is from?
So if most fans are clueless about college hockey, WHO CARES WHO YOU PLAY? Tell them Alaska is a powerhouse every year and if the fans don't know, they will pack the place.
Colorado Symphony? Are we really going to go there? That's like discussing the best vintage of wine from Idaho.
Yes, it appears we are in two different worlds - Denver and Reality.

Don't worry Tech won't be on your non-conference schedule. It will be a looong time before Tech ever bothers to visit Colorado again for the simple reason that the team isn't going to schedule games if they know the fans won't travel to support the team. I'm sure there are Tech alumni in CO who would still attend, but the days of folks taking road trips there are over.

Ryan J

FYI - I have no personal beef with DU fans or fans of any other team in the NaCHo Bowl. I do however take issue with folks who try to defend this whole college hockey mess as "what was best" or "needed to be done" or "wasn't about money". You would have an easier time convincing me that the original pioneers were doing "what was best" for Native Americans when they settled the West...

Chris
10-27-2011, 06:30 PM
huskyfan unloaded. huskyfan comes alive. huskyfan: wanted dead or alive.

Colorado is a state of newcomers. Denver is very much a bandwagon town. When you are the hot ticket - great! if not - nobody turns out to see you. Look at the Avs - Denver did invent hockey, didn't it? that whole Patrick Roy, Stanley Cup thing? - a couple of bad seasons and the team could be moving. How 'bout them Broncos? - without Tim Tebow, there'd be no one in the stadium. Rockoctober - not this season, there wasn't even a RockJuly. move on to the next thing, be it skiing, boarding, mountain biking, kayaking, ice climbing.
I think its hard for you to understand how rooted in a culture a sport can be. Canada, Minnesota, Michigan, Massachusetts. we grew up with it. our fathers and brothers played it. we played it. we skated before we walked. we played street hockey. we skated on frozen lakes and ponds. we had to be forced to come in from outside. we worshipped Gordie Howe and Bobby Hull and Bobby Orr. we stop if we see a pick up game going in the park. and yes, the hockey sweater mattered. "he's in, he shoots, he scores" - we knew that on the radio and TV long long before we believed in miracles. we stuck with our teams. sure, its a sport, entertainment. but it a little more to us. it's woven into our culture. someday, DU will regret having thrown away a league they help found over 60 years ago. I think they will regret having thrown away a historic trophy for some personal egos. I think those "arduous road trips" - which go both ways, BTW - will mean something to them. perhaps the history will mean something. that big TV deal may not materialize. and it will come down to butts in the seats. but hey, if not, you'll always have heli-rafting.

sorry F2B&G. guess I am still bitter.

Without Tim Tebow, no one would go to Broncos games? They've had a packed stadium for 40+ consecutive seasons.

The WCHA is not 60 years old. The WIHL was the conference during the '50s, then it disbanded for a season ('59-60, I believe). After the season without a conference, the WCHA was formed just over 50 years ago.

DU isn't going to regret anything. The regret should lie with Tech, for providing an inferior team for 30 years.

I am a Colorado native and I have never heard of anyone here going heli-rafting. Ever.

Shirtless Guy
10-27-2011, 06:35 PM
In the last 4 (2007-08 to 2010-11) seasons the order of average attendance for WCHA opponents at DU is as follows:
Colorado College (6071)
North Dakota (6037)
Minnesota (6035)
Michigan Tech (5723)
Alaska-Anchorage (5607)
Minnesota State (5581)
Minnesota-Duluth (5560)
St. Cloud State (5333)
Nebraska-Omaha (5250)*
Bemidji State (5047)
Tell me again why you'd rather have UNO, UMD, SCSU than MTU?
Explain to me why your WCHA tournament games are so pathetically attended (4426)? That average is less than the average for all the exhibition games over that time.
For comparison the Denver Cup average: 5614

*Only one game, not really a fair comparison

Shirtless Guy
10-27-2011, 06:42 PM
Without Tim Tebow, no one would go to Broncos games? They've had a packed stadium for 40+ consecutive seasons.

The WCHA is not 60 years old. The WIHL was the conference during the '50s, then it disbanded for a season ('59-60, I believe). After the season without a conference, the WCHA was formed just over 50 years ago.

DU isn't going to regret anything. The regret should lie with Tech, for providing an inferior team for 30 years.

I am a Colorado native and I have never heard of anyone here going heli-rafting. Ever.So all we needed to do was win the national championship last year and we're in...hell it looks like all we had to do was make the NCAAs last year and we're in. You don't think they've been trying to right the ship? ~60 years of history under whatever name it was is still ~60 years of history.

bunt_q
10-27-2011, 06:45 PM
just for the record, bunt. I am a resident of Colorado. I can sit and watch you climb Quandary from my living room. (its a candy *** 14er for appleknockers)
permanent shelters? I'll bet you a tricked out ice house over Silt or Basalt or Montezuma or Hartsel any day.

Oh excellent. Yep, it is candy****, that's the point... sort of an easy welcome-to-winter jaunt. More party than climb (although with the forecast, it might be more whiteout than party). You should come - we can argue hockey conferences the whole way up, and all the non-hockey folks can stare at us like we are crazy. Which we are, by the way. Not a sane person on this forum, I don't think.

I wonder what DOW/Aurora would do if I plopped a Grumpy Old Men-esque ice house on Antero.


How 'bout them Broncos? - without Tim Tebow, there'd be no one in the stadium.

This is a bit much. The Broncos haven't not sold out a game since the Carter administration. The normal Colorado rules don't apply for the Broncos. Denver's still a football town, first and foremost.


Rockoctober - not this season, there wasn't even a RockJuly. move on to the next thing, be it skiing, boarding, mountain biking, kayaking, ice climbing.

It's sort of shocking, all things considered, that the Rockies still managed 12th (out of 30) in MLB for attendance this year. They were an atrocious ball club. I wouldn't call that a bandwagon town, though. The Rockies are always 10th-12th in MLB attendance. This season they were about the same as the Dodgers and Texas, and higher than the Mets, Detroit, Atlanta, and a lot of other teams you wouldn't expect.


a couple of bad seasons and the team could be moving.

Where do you get this? You must be reading a different paper than I am. The Avs attendance only dipped for two seasons. About 100k from its peak, which is huge... but talk of moving? Hardly. At their worst, they were still averaging 2,000/game more than Phoenix, and for some reason the NHL seems pretty committed to them. As bad as the Avs were last year, there were still 6 teams with lower attendance than them. (New Jersey? Odd.) I think we do pretty well for a medium-sized market with so much going on.

But generally speaking, you're right about Colorado. The only place in Colorado with the sort of hockey tradition you're describing is Colorado Springs. I was a little late - I didn't skate until I was 4 (and I'm more Brett Hull-era than Bobby Hull), but everything else you described is part of hockey culture down there. We had to drive to Green Mountain Falls for a reliably frozen pond, but we did, all the time. Denver still doesn't have that and probably never will.

I still think you're wrong about DU someday regretting the decision, though. I guess we'll see.

uaafanblog
10-27-2011, 06:53 PM
In the last 4 (2007-08 to 2010-11) seasons the order of average attendance for WCHA opponents at DU is as follows:
Colorado College (6071)
North Dakota (6037)
Minnesota (6035)
Michigan Tech (5723)
Alaska-Anchorage (5607)
Minnesota State (5581)
Minnesota-Duluth (5560)
St. Cloud State (5333)
Nebraska-Omaha (5250)*
Bemidji State (5047)
Tell me again why you'd rather have UNO, UMD, SCSU than MTU?
Explain to me why your WCHA tournament games are so pathetically attended (4426)? That average is less than the average for all the exhibition games over that time.
For comparison the Denver Cup average: 5614

*Only one game, not really a fair comparison

Did this a couple of years ago when DG first started in with the lie that DU attendance suffered from non-marquis opponents. A fair average shows about 500-700 less fans show up. Insignificant. Far less loss of revenue than NOT HAVING two extra home games every year.

Go ask GM Gwoz what he's doing to replace the revenue from two lost home games eh?