SLU Hockey 2011-2012

[TimU]

Re: SLU Hockey 2011-2012

Timeout. Let's not get carried away. Joe is the greatest college hockey coach in the country, and I've seen SLU blow plenty of late leads with him standing on the bench. Anybody remember the Ylae semifinal in Albany just a couple of years ago? Joe would not have cleared the puck, covered any RIT players, or blocked any shots. I don't believe the players would have executed better just because he was there. I'm quite sure their coaches gave them the correct instructions. Nobody knows defensive hockey better than our associate head coach, nobody in the program has played more hockey than he has, and nobody is more level-headed and poised. The coaching staff know what they're doing and they know how to communicate it.

This start sucks. The Saints are running out of ways to lose games and we're only four games into the season. It appears that the defense and goaltending need to get a LOT better, quickly, or the team could be in a very deep hole before they even get started. But as great as Joe is, a collapse like last night's can't be pinned on his absence if you ask me.

[hockeymascot]

Re: SLU Hockey 2011-2012

Timeout. Let's not get carried away. Joe is the greatest college hockey coach in the country, and I've seen SLU blow plenty of late leads with him standing on the bench. Anybody remember the Ylae semifinal in Albany just a couple of years ago? Joe would not have cleared the puck, covered any RIT players, or blocked any shots. I don't believe the players would have executed better just because he was there. I'm quite sure their coaches gave them the correct instructions. Nobody knows defensive hockey better than our associate head coach, nobody in the program has played more hockey than he has, and nobody is more level-headed and poised. The coaching staff know what they're doing and they know how to communicate it.

This start sucks. The Saints are running out of ways to lose games and we're only four games into the season. It appears that the defense and goaltending need to get a LOT better, quickly, or the team could be in a very deep hole before they even get started. But as great as Joe is, a collapse like last night's can't be pinned on his absence if you ask me.

I did not say that the current coaching staff is not competent......I merely stated that they miss Joe. Let's face it, the associate coach is certainly capable, but he really hasn't had the team that long. With Joe, every player knows their level of accountability. This is something I am sure the current staff is working on. What is expected and the level of accountablity between coach and player(s) is something that will take time to establish and I am sure SLU will be a much improved team down the road.

[TimU]

Re: SLU Hockey 2011-2012

I did not say that the current coaching staff is not competent......I merely stated that they miss Joe. Let's face it, the associate coach is certainly capable, but he really hasn't had the team that long. With Joe, every player knows their level of accountability. This is something I am sure the current staff is working on. What is expected and the level of accountablity between coach and player(s) is something that will take time to establish and I am sure SLU will be a much improved team down the road.

I know you didn't call anyone incompetent, and I didn't mean to suggest that. Sorry if that's how it seemed. And even though I was responding to your post, I didn't mean to direct everything I said at you. I think everyone can agree that anytime he's not with the team Joe is missed, and whenever the time comes that he coaches his last game he'll be missed forever. I just think all of us (including me: I was pretty disappointed last night too, as one or two others here can attest) should try not to attribute everything to Joe's health problems. I've seen lots of bad streaks over the years, and just because Joe isn't here for this one doesn't mean it wouldn't have happened if he were healthy and coaching. Nobody knows yet.

[Muskieman]

Re: SLU Hockey 2011-2012

Hey guys,

Here's kind of an odd thought I had recently. I don't believe SLU won any of the four games Joe missed last year, so it got me wondering when the last time the Saints won without Joe on the bench.

I haven't been covering the team all that long and am unsure of the history of Marsh's absences in his 26 years. But it's kind of an interesting idea to think perhaps the Saints haven't won a game without Joe since, like, 1983. Any thoughts?

I believe the games that Joe missed last year were the regular season tilts at Brown and Yale, and at Colgate and Cornell. We beat Colgate 4-0 in Hamilton last season, and in a game eerily similar to the RIT game - gave up a late EAG the next night and lost in OT at Cornell.

I believe Joe also took a brief leave last season or the season before that to become a temporary clergyman and preside over the marriage of one of his former players, (I think for Peter McGeough '88), but can't remember if games were played while he was on leave, and if so, the results of those games.

[number 16]

Re: SLU Hockey 2011-2012

I was at the game on Sat with 10,000 of my closest friends - all wearing orange. I thought we looked better than I expected after Mich - moved the puck on the PP better, won our share of face offs and, for the most part, stayed out of the box (but the penalty after RIT received a 5 min major hurt). Up 5-3 in that atmosphere was a credit. We clear the zone - we win.
We'll be OK

Blue Cross Arena is a nice place to watch a game

[Get the Puck Outta Here]

Re: SLU Hockey 2011-2012

Well, definitely not the start we were looking for. Surrendering 25 goals in the first 4 games and 30 if you consider the first scrimmage, is no way to win games. That compounded by the amount of time we like to spend in the penalty box creates one big negative facet of our game. Thank god the team will have 3 weeks to try and catch their breath, regroup, and have a new start for the remainder of the season. Hopefully these young guys can put it together for some better hockey than what we have been seeing.

Go Saints Go

[SLUwriter]

Re: SLU Hockey 2011-2012

So here's the fact I found today: SLU hasn't been 0-4 since the 1996-97 season. Then, they lost 4-2 and 5-2 at St. Cloud, 6-3 to Lake State at home, 4-2 to Miami at home before beating Yale 7-3 in the ECAC home opener on Nov. 8.

[Got 6, Want More]

Re: SLU Hockey 2011-2012

Timeout. Let's not get carried away. Joe is the greatest college hockey coach in the country, and I've seen SLU blow plenty of late leads with him standing on the bench. Anybody remember the Ylae semifinal in Albany just a couple of years ago? Joe would not have cleared the puck, covered any RIT players, or blocked any shots. I don't believe the players would have executed better just because he was there. I'm quite sure their coaches gave them the correct instructions. Nobody knows defensive hockey better than our associate head coach, nobody in the program has played more hockey than he has, and nobody is more level-headed and poised. The coaching staff know what they're doing and they know how to communicate it.

This start sucks. The Saints are running out of ways to lose games and we're only four games into the season. It appears that the defense and goaltending need to get a LOT better, quickly, or the team could be in a very deep hole before they even get started. But as great as Joe is, a collapse like last night's can't be pinned on his absence if you ask me.

Yeah, I agree with you Tim. I was not trying to blame this on Hurley or Carvey by any stretch. I attribute our early misfortune mostly to our youth. Our oldest defenseman is a Junior. However, I am still alarmed. I would not have expected this team to be 0-4 or 0-5, to lose an exhibition game against inferior talent no matter how many more games they have played and most importantly to be averaging more than 6 GA per game. Yes, we did start 85-86 0-7 in Marsh's first year. That was a different time and place though. The program was in a bit of turmoil. Some solid recruits bailed not liking the regime change and the fact Joe wouldn't let a guy like Larry Mitchell play the game without coming into the defensive zone...the class of 1989 has SICK talent and it would have been that much better had Brian Chapman and Larry Mitchell stuck around, but there were also injuries. We played at Clarkson before Christmas with a four man defensive unit of FY-Hurlbut, FY - Mann, FY - Walkon - Stewart and converted Forward JR - Dave Saunders and got pummeled 10-1. We don't have those problems. We didn't lose anyone when BP left for Princeton and we don't have any key injuries altering our lineup. What we do have is some serious breakdowns and mistakes with almost every single one of those ending up in the back of the net. The games I have watched have all included at least one bad goal against. This is the kind of frustrating early start that will show very early what kind of team we will be. Obviously, the word is out on Carey...he is getting no room. But as the cover him, that still leaves an exceptional player in Flanny to make some plays and he has. Still, very little offensive production from our defense. We have always been a team that got a lot of goals from the D. That can lead to bad defense with excessive pinching, but right now I think that this team just has some things to figure out defensively. Even if Marsh was there, he would be leaning heavily on Hurley just as he has on assistants like Morris, McGuire, PJ, Heinbuck, and others to coach the defense. If there is no hot goalie, there is no hot goalie....that happens...it happened when we had very good goalies such as Ackley and McKenna and it is happening now. Just focus on being in the correct position and not fighting the puck and get them some practice.

I personally believe that while the early home games are nice, I'd rather be on the road. Road trips are a good way for a young team to gel and playing in front of the small crowds we had for Carleton and Ferris is not good for morale.

The only negative thought that has entered my mind about Hurley and Carvey is just that knowing them they are both analytical and more of the professional mentality in that they are very proficient at coaching, knowing the X's and O's, and breaking down tape, but in terms of the fiery locker room speeches, Marsh is in a class by himself. Marsh is a great motivator and great at bringing the energy level up. No knock against MH or GC, Marsh is just a master of that. The other thing Marsh is a master of is reading a player and knowing who is ready, who is not, how to motivate those that need it, how to support guys that need it. In other words, the people part of the game - there is no other Joe Marsh, period.

The RIT loss is painful. We should have had it and developed the killer instinct and just buried them with a lead and 10 minutes to go. It is positive we were 3 for 5 on the PP and also had a shorty...that is great, but losing is worst than that is good. But, if it teaches the guys to play the full 60 minutes instead of 59:51, that can still be a positive. Cripes, I still remember Russ Mann at Yale as a Freshmen passing the puck out of the corner right to the middle of the ice and a streaking Yale player where they scored the 6-5 game winner after we were up 5-3 late. He learned a lesson and probably only did that 3 or 4 more times over his career!

We got to find a way to play better defense, win the close games, not give up easy goals. It is disheartening that it is a pretty big list, but this team has a lot of young talent and the coaches are top notch. My bigger concern with Marsh out is recruiting suffering. As for October so far, I think we all have similar thoughts. Mine are "well that ****ing sucks"! However, I still believe we are in good shape. We know there is a lot of untapped goal production all over this team, that Wenny and Moss haven't played their best yet and that what really matters is that we recruited a team full of winners all with good character and a good work ethic. Let's just hope that puts some games in the W column very soon.

[Got 6, Want More]

Re: SLU Hockey 2011-2012

PS Anyone notice we have not won since Moko started this new thread. So much for that superstition!

[klumpmypants]

Re: SLU Hockey 2011-2012

I have ranked SLU 6th in my non-Ivy power rankings based on the first two weeks of action. Read about it here:
http://insidehockey.com/ecac-the-first-two-weeks.

Sorry for the interruption and for the low rank. Just trying to build up the following.

[nhmonarch]

Re: SLU Hockey 2011-2012

I have ranked SLU 6th in my non-Ivy power rankings based on the first two weeks of action. Read about it here:
http://insidehockey.com/ecac-the-first-two-weeks.

Sorry for the interruption and for the low rank. Just trying to build up the following.

Not a great way to endear yourself to the SLU faithful and generate a following. You bash SLU (no question deserve some of it) but ignore RPI's limitations to-date. Same goal differential for both losing to Ferris State and RPI shutout twice and Mankato State is not Michigan....you seem to have a RPI bias.

[klumpmypants]

Re: SLU Hockey 2011-2012

Not a great way to endear yourself to the SLU faithful and generate a following. You bash SLU (no question deserve some of it) but ignore RPI's limitations to-date. Same goal differential for both losing to Ferris State and RPI shutout twice and Mankato State is not Michigan....you seem to have a RPI bias.

Seems more like you have a hang-up with RPI. SLU played Ferris at home in the North Country, RPI played them in Michigan. And the games I saw them play, RPI looked much better. Bottom line is they have played pretty similar competition. RPI has a win, SLU doesn't.

Honest reporting is not bashing. I'm not going to write a fluff piece about the team to get fans.

[nhmonarch]

Re: SLU Hockey 2011-2012

Seems more like you have a hang-up with RPI. SLU played Ferris at home in the North Country, RPI played them in Michigan. And the games I saw them play, RPI looked much better. Bottom line is they have played pretty similar competition. RPI has a win, SLU doesn't.

Honest reporting is not bashing. I'm not going to write a fluff piece about the team to get fans.

Not looking for a fluff piece. SLU deserves critical analysis of their "team" defense. However, to spend 4 parapgraphs ripping the Saints and only making slight reference to RPI's lack of production in the context of if they played lesser competition, they would score more (Clarkson vs Sacred Heart) is less than credible. As far as playing similar competition; really?....Michigan is ranked #1 and Mankato Statelost twice to UML who lost to UConn.....I hope you get a large following - as for me, I pass.

[Got 6, Want More]

Re: SLU Hockey 2011-2012

Seems more like you have a hang-up with RPI. SLU played Ferris at home in the North Country, RPI played them in Michigan. And the games I saw them play, RPI looked much better. Bottom line is they have played pretty similar competition. RPI has a win, SLU doesn't.

Honest reporting is not bashing. I'm not going to write a fluff piece about the team to get fans.

Go away Jason. Your "reporting" has obvious biases and overlooks some important issues with each team.

As for SLU, yes, the are without a win but RPI has, what, about 2 goals in the last 4 games. SLU's losses to Ferris were largely the result of sitting in the box about 20 minutes each night. There issues at Michigan who they outplayed was a lack of defense and goaltending and letting it turn into a **** show. RIT was bad defense but they still scored more goals in one game than RPI has in the last four and it was a high emotion game played in front of 10,000 at a sold out barn. These games are pretty meaningless. Neither SLU or RPI are exactly in the hunt for an at-large.

NHMonarch is spot on. I don't think what you have written is correct, nor are the conclusions and the bias is obvious. I am a pass too.

[critsports]

Re: SLU Hockey 2011-2012

Not looking for a fluff piece. SLU deserves critical analysis of their "team" defense. However, to spend 4 parapgraphs ripping the Saints and only making slight reference to RPI's lack of production in the context of if they played lesser competition, they would score more (Clarkson vs Sacred Heart) is less than credible. As far as playing similar competition; really?....Michigan is ranked #1 and Mankato Statelost twice to UML who lost to UConn.....I hope you get a large following - as for me, I pass.

I don't know if anyone noticed but Ferris State is now 6-0 after shutting down Miami twice this weekend, last night another shut out. I think we'll get a real good gauge on how good they are as they are at Michigan for two this coming weekend.

It is interesting to see the different philosophies of scheduling. RPI does have a very tough out of conference start and I think next week goes to Colorado College so by the time the games come against us in two weeks they will be well prepared if nothing else. Our North Country brethren however have taken the opposite approach tearing their way through 6 Atlantic Conference foes in Sacred Heart, AIC and Bentley. I am sure Clarkson is building a lot of confidence with their route.

So far looking at results it would appear our stock and RPI's are trading fairly low and deservedly so. Q Pac is off to a good start but other than the Ohio State opener their schedule has been less than challenging dotted with their former Atlantic Conference foes. Gate looks stronger this year and Union for as high as they have been forecast they have been very spotty and inconsistent. Certainly not the team of last year so far. Granted the Capital District teams both lost a ton of talent. Now the Ivie's are finally hitting the ice with their exhibition openers and we'll get a peak at how strong/weak/good or bad they look. Ylae from the comments on their thread looked young and inexperienced in their loss to Waterloo.

I've yet to make my ECAC picks yet and won't until the last possible moment after getting a fair look/read on everyone before the ECAC schedule begins. As much as I like our apparent depth, unless we can find a way to keep the puck out of our net and get some solid goal tending (which I thought would be a strength) I'd pick us to open the playoffs on the road.