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MUnRPI
10-05-2011, 09:38 PM
It IS dying. Hockey is not for the faint of heart. It needs grittiness, on the ice and in the stands. I'm not calling for total vulgarity, but you need a little edge. Crap, have you heard the crap yelled at NHl games?! If you want something prim and proper, go watch your grandma's knitting circle....or, better yet, soccer.

European Soccer supporters put all other sports fans to shame.. :eek:

MiamiRedhawks2008
10-06-2011, 04:48 AM
Ray of sunshine you are this evening :(

It was a long day at the office.

Apologies if it came off as hostile towards the posters on here. was really meant for the students and administration.

MiamiRedhawks2008
10-06-2011, 04:52 AM
European Soccer supporters put all other sports fans to shame.. :eek:

I'm not sure that it's wise to compare us to soccer fans in other countries, who have been known to kill their players for losing!!!;) Then again, didn't we have fights at multiple games this past few months?

MUhawks628
10-06-2011, 06:24 AM
It was a long day at the office.

Apologies if it came off as hostile towards the posters on here. was really meant for the students and administration.

I think most people on here agree with you, but if we don't talk about it, that means it's not happening right ;)

MUhawks628
10-06-2011, 08:21 AM
European Soccer supporters put all other sports fans to shame.. :eek:

The Hudson Street Hooligans as well, of course.

MUnRPI
10-06-2011, 10:23 AM
So this isn't what you want outside of Goggin against the Beaver fans, 2008? :p


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgEwh3px9hc

redhawkman10
10-06-2011, 10:43 AM
I simply disagree. There are programs with a much longer history of national prominence and much more significant national media presence who do not take steps such as an outright ban on signs. And I also know a number of alumni, young AND old, who value the atmosphere that is in part created by the signs and cheers and would be alienated by a move to eliminate them. If I was a big booster, I'd want to see a full, passionate, involved student section in every game because it is something that the rest of the fans value and something that the members of the team themselves enjoy. How many recruits have been quoted as saying that one reason they chose Miami was the devoted student fan base? How many current players have said in interviews that they love the students lined up hours ahead of the games? Moves like eliminating signs won't instantly destroy that atmosphere, but I would argue that over time it does chip away from it, draining the energy from the core of the student fans.

I'm not saying they shouldn't try to eliminate vulgarities. There are two ways to do this: unilateral, outright bans or engaging the student fans toward cooperation in solving the problem. The former approach will alienate students and most likely fail as far as eliminating the vulgar cheers... the only way you would actually achieve this is through ejections and individual bans, which hurts student morale and game atmosphere even further. The latter approach gives the students a sense of involvement, investment, empowerment that will provide a strong motivation to self-police. Then you get signs and chants that are fun, witty, and contribute to the atmosphere, AND you maintain a robust student section. If at that point students fail to self-police, they then have no legitimate complaint when a ban has to be imposed instead.

Of course this is all premised on the assumption that signs are in fact banned. If that turns out to indeed be the case on Friday, we can explore this further. As I said, though, you don't have to hire more people to monitor signs... those people are already there regulating the gate and have already been doing this additional job. As far as a concern that we need to avoid offending big boosters, I would argue that today's most diehard student fans are tomorrow's biggest non-player boosters... discounting and alienating them hurts in the long run. As far as families go, it's an athletic event with invested fans. In my experience, you hear worse things in worse contexts at most other venues with similarly impassioned fans.

You can't compare what other schools and programs do in regards to this to what Miami does. They may not hold the same standards that Miami does. To every person you say, young and old, like the way things are there are those, young and old, who don't. That is just simply a fact. Listen your never in life going to apease everyone. But you have to agree the image Miami has gotten from the way the student section has handled themselves over the past 5+ years is not a good one. I believe Miami doesn't want the student section to not be involved and rowdy but do so within reason and with class and integrity. Having sexually explicit chants don't condone a family friendly environment, which is where this program has gone. This is the elite program on campus now and is held to a higher standard. With increased exposure comes increased scrutiny. If they choose to do this it's because the power was abused. They started monitoring signs and maybe they saw that students simply werent respecting that and they were having to confiscate more signs or some were sneaking signs in. We don't know there specific reasoning behind this. But if the students are abusing their privelages then actions like this need to be taken. They aren't going to alienate those important people, maybe the drunked casual fan won't come but there is a waiting list for season tickets and students get turned away for free tickets. Their attendance isn't hurting so they can make bold moves like this and the die hard fans will still come and support this program for generations to come.

redhawkman10
10-06-2011, 10:50 AM
My first few steps of hockey fandom were taken in a tiny lttle rink that had closer resemblane to a cave than an actual college sporting venue. The fogies on here will recognize me describing The Goggin. I think everyone recognized that the special quality of fans, environment, and experience had to be transferred from the old venue to the new one. Part of that was allowiing college kids to be college kids. Be raucous. Be rowdy. Limiting them is killing the atmosphere.

Ive been back a few times as an alumnus and am ashamed. The kids have no interest in the game. They are don't have good participation in chants or cheers. If you're afraid the atmosphere WILL die, you're too late.

It IS dying. Hockey is not for the faint of heart. It needs grittiness, on the ice and in the stands. I'm not calling for total vulgarity, but you need a little edge. Crap, have you heard the crap yelled at NHl games?! If you want something prim and proper, go watch your grandma's knitting circle....or, better yet, soccer.

completely disagree. The atmosphere at games are far better now than they ever were in the old goggin. The reason there wasn't much attention paid at the old goggin was because 90% of those in attendance were students and the program frankly wasn't that strong. Times have changed, I agree the student section needs to be involved and make a difference and give a home ice advantage. But like you said the vulgarity has run its course and does not need to be there. You have to have intelligance to get into Miami, so the student section needs to become creative and come up with something new. Like I mentioned the sexually explicit chants are just out of line now a days when you have parents bringing young children to these games. You need those families in attendance because those kids build your fan base over years. If you alienate them and turn them away ultimately it can affect the growth of your fan base.

No one is telling the students to sit on their hands, but change your approach. I think every can agree students have crossed the line recently and ultimately have forced the university to act. They don't want to get involved, but image drives everything and when your image starts to change action needs to be taken.

redhawkman10
10-06-2011, 10:55 AM
Well excuse me that after four years of going to games I wanted one funny sign. That sign lasted 10 minutes and then I took it down. Also I am nothing like a jersey chaser and you better watch what you call people. Just becuase I had signs doesnt mean that I ever even hung out with the players becuase I didnt. I never missed a game and some of our signs were looked forward to by players and regular ticket holders. Im glad your happy Im gone or I would make a sign didicated to your lack of humor. Hockey is a dirty sport and requires some dirty chants and signs. Let the boys be boys and the fans be fans. If you like your hockey boring then go watch baseball or something.

You had valid points until you said "the sport requires dirty chants and signs". I dont know you but if you want others to watch what they say don't say immature things. That quote couldn't be farther from the truth. When you have kids, you want your 2 yr old at a hockey game learning about condoms? I would truly hope not.

redhawkman10
10-06-2011, 10:59 AM
On a side note, good to see we can have actual discussion on here without name calling and personal attacks makes this place more enjoyable than in recent years.

fangers
10-06-2011, 11:12 AM
IMHO, the things being done at the rink are just a byproduct of a larger image cleanup underway, required due to the recent rash of sorority/fraternity troubles and alcohol related deaths/issues (many underaged) that have been in the news. I really think the student behavior at the hockey games in and of itself wouldn't be causing this - but then again I've not been to as many games recently. Just hope it doesn't turn into what you see at UC basketball games, with all the old, rich alum taking up the good seats, hands politely folded in their laps.

MUnRPI
10-06-2011, 11:12 AM
This is only soft of related to RHM's comments. But I heard the OSU coach Mark Osiecki say on the radio that Miami and BU are the toughest places to play in the country. I know for a fact that Goggin isn't the most hostile environment in college hockey but there must be some truth for him to claim that.

MUnRPI
10-06-2011, 11:20 AM
completely disagree. The atmosphere at games are far better now than they ever were in the old goggin. The reason there wasn't much attention paid at the old goggin was because 90% of those in attendance were students and the program frankly wasn't that strong. Times have changed, I agree the student section needs to be involved and make a difference and give a home ice advantage. But like you said the vulgarity has run its course and does not need to be there. You have to have intelligance to get into Miami, so the student section needs to become creative and come up with something new. Like I mentioned the sexually explicit chants are just out of line now a days when you have parents bringing young children to these games. You need those families in attendance because those kids build your fan base over years. If you alienate them and turn them away ultimately it can affect the growth of your fan base.

No one is telling the students to sit on their hands, but change your approach. I think every can agree students have crossed the line recently and ultimately have forced the university to act. They don't want to get involved, but image drives everything and when your image starts to change action needs to be taken.

I understand the university wanting to eliminate the inappropriate behavior. I just wish they could treat the students like adults in regard to the signage.

Do we even know that signs are banned? I think we are just basing this off of one post on RHT.

MUhawks628
10-06-2011, 11:30 AM
This is only soft of related to RHM's comments. But I heard the OSU coach Mark Osiecki say on the radio that Miami and BU are the toughest places to play in the country. I know for a fact that Goggin isn't the most hostile environment in college hockey but there must be some truth for him to claim that.

That's prety cool actually.

I've never been a hockey player so I'm not sure what makes an arena a "tough" place to play, does the combination of a sellouts and a very small arena must make for that kind of enviorment? Someone else on here can probably answer that question, but you know that Michigan students are certiantley more vocal and hostile than we are. I still haven't made it out to Yost so, I don't know what the enviorment there is like with the other fans thrown into the equation.


I understand the university wanting to eliminate the inappropriate behavior. I just wish they could treat the students like adults in regard to the signage.

Do we even know that signs are banned? I think we are just basing this off of one post on RHT.

Yeah, we fly off the deep end quite eaisly these days :).

There is one poster saying they are banned, and one saying they are just stepping up/continuing monitoring. The later is a season ticket holder who attends every game, so I'm inclined to think he is correct.

MUnRPI
10-06-2011, 11:48 AM
That's prety cool actually.

I've never been a hockey player so I'm not sure what makes an arena a "tough" place to play, does the combination of a sellouts and a very small arena must make for that kind of enviorment? Someone else on here can probably answer that question, but you know that Michigan students are certiantley more vocal and hostile than we are. I still haven't made it out to Yost so, I don't know what the enviorment there is like with the other fans thrown into the equation.


Ice quality, the way the puck bounces off the boards, and also depth perception based on the dimensions of the arena. OSU is used to playing at Value City Arena which dwarfs Goggin

MUhawks628
10-06-2011, 11:51 AM
Ice quality, the way the puck bounces off the boards, and also depth perception based on the dimensions of the arena. OSU is used to playing at Value City Arena which dwarfs Goggin

Well in OSU's case, any level of fan noise should be foreign enough to throw them off their game, arena properties aside ;)

redhawkman10
10-06-2011, 12:09 PM
IMHO, the things being done at the rink are just a byproduct of a larger image cleanup underway, required due to the recent rash of sorority/fraternity troubles and alcohol related deaths/issues (many underaged) that have been in the news. I really think the student behavior at the hockey games in and of itself wouldn't be causing this - but then again I've not been to as many games recently. Just hope it doesn't turn into what you see at UC basketball games, with all the old, rich alum taking up the good seats, hands politely folded in their laps.

very well said, my point exactly. Hockey just happens to be the highest profile sport on campus so it trickles down to them as well.

redhawkman10
10-06-2011, 12:12 PM
I understand the university wanting to eliminate the inappropriate behavior. I just wish they could treat the students like adults in regard to the signage.

Do we even know that signs are banned? I think we are just basing this off of one post on RHT.

I think thats a give and take though as well. I would be willing to guess that them monitoring the signs and having that out there was their way of putting it in the students hands and in their eyes the students didn't show that they could handle it so they may just ax it. To be treated like adults they have to act like adults, I could see more outrage over this if they just simply got rid of them two years ago without even going into the monitoring stage.

redhawkman10
10-06-2011, 12:18 PM
Ice quality, the way the puck bounces off the boards, and also depth perception based on the dimensions of the arena. OSU is used to playing at Value City Arena which dwarfs Goggin

Distractions play a big part in it as well. Which is why a rowdy fan base is needed, within reason. Energy levels have a tendancy to fluctuate rapidly when your in a barn that is full and has an active fan base. Home teams feed off of that and visiting teams can sense that and tighten up a little. Depth perception in terms of the size of an arena shouldn't be that big of a factor. Rink dimensions are typically the same and in the pace of the game your immediate surrounding area is all you are really focused on. Which is why when teams go from NHL sized rinks to olympic rinks you see more of an issue. Although the bigger challenge is going from olympic to NHL since the space is cut dramatically.

MUnRPI
10-06-2011, 12:56 PM
Distractions play a big part in it as well. Which is why a rowdy fan base is needed, within reason. Energy levels have a tendancy to fluctuate rapidly when your in a barn that is full and has an active fan base. Home teams feed off of that and visiting teams can sense that and tighten up a little. Depth perception in terms of the size of an arena shouldn't be that big of a factor. Rink dimensions are typically the same and in the pace of the game your immediate surrounding area is all you are really focused on. Which is why when teams go from NHL sized rinks to olympic rinks you see more of an issue. Although the bigger challenge is going from olympic to NHL since the space is cut dramatically.

I've heard from goalies that it is hard for them to locate the puck as quickly in some arenas. It's no different than basketball players preferring a barn with a favorable "shooters eye" or a baseball slugger liking a certain stadium for the backdrop behind the pitcher.