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bunt_q
09-21-2011, 07:35 PM
I've already answered that, too.

No, you haven't.

Both Alabama-Hunstville and Bowling Green are already programs teetering on the edge. The NCHC may not be saving them, but it's not making their lot any worse either.

Any others?

Dude Love
09-21-2011, 07:36 PM
This is balls. I am not happy about this. When we finish 7th or 8th the first 4 years we're in the NCHC, I would like to hear from the proponents of this move. It would be tough to find a bigger homer than me...but St. Cloud State is NOT a hockey powerhouse (despite what some of our alumni believe). We're gonna get rolled.

Also, now we look like a bunch of tools for doing the exact thing our admin had been chastising UND and DU for over the last two months. It's like they saw that everyone hated someone else and decided they couldn't go 15 minutes without us being the most hated fanbase. :rolleyes:

Then again, our admission to the NCHC makes 95% of all UND fans REALLY angry...so that's a plus.

bunt_q
09-21-2011, 07:37 PM
Mankato.

Duluth, St. Cloud, and UND drew pretty well. All three are gone. The Purple Mavs are probably toast.

Hmm, I hadn't thought about that one. You don't think Duluth and St. Cloud will schedule them non-conference?

Call your state legislator (seriously - that's what's been going on in Texas all week re: the future of their smaller football programs.) That's easily avoided if all you need is some in-state action. Don't have to be in the same conference for that.

The Rube
09-21-2011, 07:40 PM
No, you haven't.

Both Alabama-Hunstville and Bowling Green are already programs teetering on the edge. The NCHC may not be saving them, but it's not making their lot any worse either.

Any others?

UAH wasn't teetering....but they will be now.

LSSU is rumored to be hurting. BSU might be hurt now. As SoH said, Mankato.

state of hockey
09-21-2011, 07:45 PM
Hmm, I hadn't thought about that one. You don't think Duluth and St. Cloud will schedule them non-conference?

Call your state legislator (seriously - that's what's been going on in Texas all week re: the future of their smaller football programs.) That's easily avoided if all you need is some in-state action. Don't have to be in the same conference for that.

I know Lucia wants a MN tourney if some sort every year, as well as some kind if rotating non-con games. I believe Sandelin has said hr would like that too. I assume Motzko would be up for it.

bunt_q
09-21-2011, 07:51 PM
UAH wasn't teetering....but they will be now.

LSSU is rumored to be hurting. BSU might be hurt now. As SoH said, Mankato.

You can't blame UAH on the NCHC. Absolutely no way you can support that.

The Rube
09-21-2011, 07:55 PM
You can't blame UAH on the NCHC. Absolutely no way you can support that.

I would guess that if the WCHA stayed the same (with the NCHC teams), UAH had a shot at the CCHA, due to their losses of teams. It's a domino effect started by the BTHC, and fueled by the NCHC.

bunt_q
09-21-2011, 08:21 PM
I would guess that if the WCHA stayed the same (with the NCHC teams), UAH had a shot at the CCHA, due to their losses of teams. It's a domino effect started by the BTHC, and fueled by the NCHC.

I can accept that. Makes you wonder, though, if the CCHA had accepted them last year, before the Big 10 lit a fire and the NCHC tossed fuel on it, would the WCHA be accepting them today? I bet they would be. Or maybe they'd have Atlantic Hockey open to them, coming from a bigger conference and all. Nobody wants an orphan (same logic, I suppose, that tells you it's easier to get a girlfriend when you have one; easier to get a job when you have one; etc.). UAH is the example, I think, that shows the benevolent nature of college hockey died long before this wave of realignment. Or maybe it's just because it's Alabama, who knows...

JOHN SCOTT ROCKS
09-21-2011, 09:17 PM
While it would have been good to have St.cloud in the WCHA, it makes it easier for MTU to get into the NCAA's. They hopefully will lose their invite to the the GLI in 2012.

SCSU2039
09-21-2011, 09:54 PM
I'm really torn over this all. I hated the fact the NCHC formed at all, but I can't blame to schools that decided to form it for looking out for what was best for them(after all, that is what the "Big" Ten teams did). When SCSU was the fat chick left out of the "prom" so to speak when the NCHC "formed" I thought maybe it would be a good thing. Even after all the additions to the WCHA it seemed that SCSU MIGHT be a power in the conference.

From a money point it makes perfect sense for SCSU to accept the invite into the NCHC. Its a bitter pill if you ask me. I would be surprised if SCSU said no to the offer. Even if SCSU is the 100th choice of a member for the "great" NCHC I can't help but think yearly games against UND and UMD create more revenue than yearly games against MSU-Man and BSU, not to mention the Alaska and Michigan schools(no offense to any of those schools).

However, I sort of liked the idea of SCSU still being in what might have been a great conference at one time in the WCHA. I would think in the new WCHA SCSU would have been on of the "powerhouses" of the the new WCHA. Of course it would probably added to our failures at the NCAA level, but at least we wouldn't be int he basement like we likely will be in the NCHC.

Long story short, I honestly wish the WCHA would have stayed as it was even without the me me me teams of UMTC and UW. That would have been better then this whole NCHC, WCCHA, B1G Mistake, WCHA demounted, and UAH still being possibly screwed point we are in today.

The Rube
09-21-2011, 10:01 PM
SCSU69478036:

from many accounts, MN was forced into the B1G Mistake. They could have left, but that would have made them leave the B1G Mistake in all sports, and that obviously couldn't happen. It has been mentioned that tDon wants to still play all MN schools in the schedule, rumors of a holiday tourney, etc.

This all spawns from Barry Alverez and PSU. After that? Follow the dominos.

uaafanblog
09-21-2011, 10:46 PM
From a money point it makes perfect sense for SCSU to accept the invite into the NCHC. Its a bitter pill if you ask me.
If you can provide even a modicum of detail about how it makes more sense money-wise for SCSU then you'll be the first person on this board to do so.

By my calculations, St. Cloud just lost between $300,000 and $500,000 in revenue with their choice today.

bunt_q
09-21-2011, 10:57 PM
SCSU69478036:

from many accounts, MN was forced into the B1G Mistake. They could have left, but that would have made them leave the B1G Mistake in all sports, and that obviously couldn't happen. It has been mentioned that tDon wants to still play all MN schools in the schedule, rumors of a holiday tourney, etc.

This all spawns from Barry Alverez and PSU. After that? Follow the dominos.

I can believe that. BUT... if Minnesota was dragged into the Big 10, then CC was similarly dragged by Denver (or vice versa). We couldn't split and survive (athletically, but academic links are important too) anymore than Minnesota could leave the Big 10.


If you can provide even a modicum of detail about how it makes more sense money-wise for SCSU then you'll be the first person on this board to do so.

By my calculations, St. Cloud just lost between $300,000 and $500,000 in revenue with their choice today.

You're kidding, right? Even if somebody on this forum had this info, you think it'd get posted here?

Here's an idea (not to you, but somebody in Minnesota, for example)... FOIA request at the SCSU athletic department. Request a look at their math. There was an assessment done, presumably, or there will be, either internally or by consultants. That should be public record, you just have to know how to ask.

But again, folks at universities are not stupid. If SCSU didn't legitimately think they are better off accepting, do you think they would? You think they are that irrational? Emotions may rule on this forum, without any interference from reason, but in the real world that isn't the case. SCSU isn't going to make a move on ego alone (well, maybe, but they can and would quantify ego too).

The Rube
09-21-2011, 11:01 PM
I can believe that. BUT... if Minnesota was dragged into the Big 10, then CC was similarly dragged by Denver (or vice versa). We couldn't split and survive (athletically, but academic links are important too) anymore than Minnesota could leave the Big 10.


It seems to me you have a no holds barred stance on hockey, though. That is what you have presented. So CC, they should be cut, correct? Honestly, if I'm missing a conference agreement somewhere (like the Big Ten has), post it. I don't know about your conference in other sports. This conference agreement is what forced MN to join the B10.

MinnesotaNorthStar
09-21-2011, 11:03 PM
It seems to me you have a no holds barred stance on hockey, though. That is what you have presented. So CC, they should be cut, correct? Honestly, if I'm missing a conference agreement somewhere (like the Big Ten has), post it. I don't know about your conference in other sports. This conference agreement is what forced MN to join the B10.

Wasn't the vote unanimous? I know MN was keen on the idea, but they did vote in favor of it, regardless, I believe...

The Rube
09-21-2011, 11:08 PM
Wasn't the vote unanimous? I know MN was keen on the idea, but they did vote in favor of it, regardless, I believe...

From what I heard, they were the lone (maybe one of two) votes against, realized they weren't going to win, so it was a vote of "solidarity."

uaafanblog
09-21-2011, 11:12 PM
You're kidding, right? Even if somebody on this forum had this info, you think it'd get posted here?
Seeing as how it continuously comes up here as rationale for this conferences formation it's completely appropriate to ask people to back it up.


Here's an idea (not to you, but somebody in Minnesota, for example)... FOIA request at the SCSU athletic department. Request a look at their math. There was an assessment done, presumably, or there will be, either internally or by consultants. That should be public record, you just have to know how to ask.
I have on multiple occasions advised fans of every BHHC school to ask this question of their administration. I promise I would have done so if I'd been in their position.


But again, folks at universities are not stupid.

Just like broader society, Universities are filled with stupid people; often in positions of responsibility.


If SCSU didn't legitimately think they are better off accepting, do you think they would? You think they are that irrational? Emotions may rule on this forum, without any interference from reason, but in the real world that isn't the case. SCSU isn't going to make a move on ego alone (well, maybe, but they can and would quantify ego too).
Human's are subject to "mob mentality". Go look at film of the Olympic bombing incident in Atlanta for example or research any major fire incident where lots of people died; even though they had time to escape if they'd acted immediately. Typically, humans don't respond to a situation until they check around and see what others are doing. So yes ... Potter is jumping on a bandwagon because he sees others doing it. Revenue generation in college hockey is no big secret. Teams get revenue from selling tickets. SCSU has a long history of basically selling out every game. The opponent didn't matter. Nobody shilling for the BHHC can quantify any significant revenue from their choice. On the other hand, revenue losses from the choice are clearly documented on this board.

bunt_q
09-21-2011, 11:12 PM
It seems to me you have a no holds barred stance on hockey, though. That is what you have presented. So CC, they should be cut, correct? Honestly, if I'm missing a conference agreement somewhere (like the Big Ten has), post it. I don't know about your conference in other sports. This conference agreement is what forced MN to join the B10.

CC doesn't have much of a conference otherwise. They're D3. DU is Sun Belt, joining WAC soon...

I guess I don't understand what you mean when you say I have a no hold barred stance...? If programs can't make it, then they will fail, that is true. But DU benefits too, like I said, not just in athletics. In our state, we would also not stand by and let the two schools screw each other, so it's sort of a non-issue (or at least there'd be a major stink). I fully expect schools to band together and rally allies where they have them and smash opponents. It's shocking to me that Mankato and Bemidji don't seem to have any influence on SCSU at all. CC and DU were always a package deal, no matter what happened.

bunt_q
09-21-2011, 11:15 PM
Seeing as how it continuously comes up here as rationale for this conferences formation it's completely appropriate to ask people to back it up.


I have on multiple occasions advised fans of every BHHC school to ask this question of their administration. I promise I would have done so if I'd been in their position.



Just like broader society, Universities are filled with stupid people; often in positions of responsibility.


Human's are subject to "mob mentality". Go look at film of the Olympic bombing incident in Atlanta for example or research any major fire incident where lots of people died; even though they had time to escape if they'd acted immediately. Typically, humans don't respond to a situation until they check around and see what others are doing. So yes ... Potter is jumping on a bandwagon because he sees others doing it. Revenue generation in college hockey is no big secret. Teams get revenue from selling tickets. SCSU has a long history of basically selling out every game. The opponent didn't matter. Nobody shilling for the BHHC can quantify any significant revenue from their choice. On the other hand, revenue losses from the choice are clearly documented on this board.

Aren't you the cynic.

Ticket revenues are not a secret. Expenses are. Revenue transfers from university general funds are also mostly secret.

The Rube
09-21-2011, 11:17 PM
CC doesn't have much of a conference otherwise. They're D3. DU is Sun Belt, joining WAC soon...

I guess I don't understand what you mean when you say I have a no hold barred stance...? If programs can't make it, then they will fail, that is true. But DU benefits too, like I said, not just in athletics. In our state, we would also not stand by and let the two schools screw each other, so it's sort of a non-issue (or at least there'd be a major stink). I fully expect schools to band together and rally allies where they have them and smash opponents. It's shocking to me that Mankato and Bemidji don't seem to have any influence on SCSU at all. CC and DU were always a package deal, no matter what happened.

What I'm saying is that you seem to have a soft spot for CC, despite them falling into your stance of "cut 'em if they can't support." So, being that CC is in the NCHC, and is relying on the big schools to survive......just sayin'.