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Montelena
09-24-2011, 10:21 AM
For the folks out there that don't know a lot about St. Cloud or even fans of the NCHC teams "pre-St.cloud" here is a good article from the publication Finance and Commerce. This is why it is a good reason to invite SCSU to the conference. Lots of exciting and progressive things happening in St. Cloud.

http://finance-commerce.com/2011/09/30-million-st-cloud-state-hockey-arena-expansion-to-break-ground/

FerrisLives
09-24-2011, 12:53 PM
If the NCHC's goal is to see the NCAA decertify hockey and kill the sport they are doing a good job of it. This conference is worse than the Big Ten. At least you
know who the Big Ten's members are, they aren't likely to change. But, the NCHC is actively destabilizing the entire sport. It might be a hard sell, but the WCHA
should go after some new members before adding the Atlantic hockey schools and Bowling Green. Schools like Minot State, Moorehead, Northwood,
Wisconsin-Green Bay would fit the profile for the conference better than the eastern schools. Those 4 schools along with Bowling Green and UAH should form another conference.

bunt_q
09-24-2011, 05:34 PM
If the NCHC's goal is to see the NCAA decertify hockey and kill the sport they are doing a good job of it. This conference is worse than the Big Ten. At least you
know who the Big Ten's members are, they aren't likely to change. But, the NCHC is actively destabilizing the entire sport. It might be a hard sell, but the WCHA
should go after some new members before adding the Atlantic hockey schools and Bowling Green. Schools like Minot State, Moorehead, Northwood,
Wisconsin-Green Bay would fit the profile for the conference better than the eastern schools. Those 4 schools along with Bowling Green and UAH should form another conference.

Please, somebody, anybody else, address this, so I don't have to continue to be the NCHC's designated forum punching bag.

Minot State? Minot State!!?? If you think that's the future of NCAA D-1 college hockey, then we are doomed to fail. No offense to anybody in the fine town of Minot (Mind-rot, according the Air Force folks I know), but could we possibly think any smaller for hockey???

More on the point of this thread, good for St. Cloud. Be nice if it was adding more than just luxury boxes, but still good to see the arena improvements. Love the "commitment to hockey" there. ;) A little odd to think that Colorado Springs' arena is going to be one of the oldest in the NCHC; it still seems "new" to me.

ozzie679
09-24-2011, 06:05 PM
More on the point of this thread, good for St. Cloud. Be nice if it was adding more than just luxury boxes, but still good to see the arena improvements. Love the "commitment to hockey" there. ;) A little odd to think that Colorado Springs' arena is going to be one of the oldest in the NCHC; it still seems "new" to me.

I bet you haven't seen the plans for the NHC. Suites, seating on the North end, and a 50,000 sqft addition to the South end. The renovation is more than just adding some suites...

http://www.stcloudstate.edu/athletics/sports/hockey-mens/APlanfortheFuture-TheNationalHockeyCenter.asp

http://www.stcloudstate.edu/athletics/sports/hockey-mens/images/Attrium92009.jpg

Creepin_N_Lurkin
09-24-2011, 07:18 PM
Way to pop that posting cherry after almost 2 years. Glad to see you didnt over exert yourself, playing it safe ;)

Ha! It took me even longer to create this acount.

ronmexico
09-24-2011, 09:18 PM
Don't know what was posted here. A lot of it depends, I suppose, on how you define "making" or losing" money. I don't want to get into too much detail, not on here. But going over just what's available in the public annual report (which isn't much) on the revenue side, I think you can get a good idea (expenses are, naturally not included). Most recent is 2009-2010.

Hockey generated $1.41 million in ticket revenue.
Center Ice Club and Tiger Pride generated another ~$180k.
Gifts (mostly meals and hotels), sponsorships, and licenses another $800k or so (we'll count free stuff as revenues, just for accounting purposes).

That's pretty much it. Except for one great big line item - $350k + endowment allocations to the athletics department.

Not sure if we should count that as revenue or not. You could also view that as a subsidy. But either way, that number can go up and down as much as necessary, as long as the college is committed.

I think it's interesting that non-ticket revenue - community support in the form of clubs, gifts, sponsorships, and endowment contributions - is fully half the annual revenue the program sees. That sort of flies in the face of a lot of the assumptions tossed around on here.

I went straight to the source on this one. I might share that source in private and in person if you insist.

If you count 18 scholarships at $50,000 a piece a year as an expense ($900,000) they operate slightly in the red. However, counting face value scholarships and fees directly against an athletic department is not common practice. I guess most schools don't call it an expense at all.

Biddco
09-24-2011, 10:15 PM
Best part about this move? Trips to Val's, MC's Dugout and the Red Carpet are assured for years to come. I will make it a yearly trip!

bunt_q
09-24-2011, 10:25 PM
I went straight to the source on this one. I might share that source in private and in person if you insist.

If you count 18 scholarships at $50,000 a piece a year as an expense ($900,000) they operate slightly in the red. However, counting face value scholarships and fees directly against an athletic department is not common practice. I guess most schools don't call it an expense at all.

That makes sense. All in the accounting. Either way, if there's only $350k/year being contributed from the endowment, they could sustain that program for a long long time. At the same time, if we're talking +/- a couple hundred thousand, we're not dealing with the huge financial windfall, I don't think, that many have accused (is that even the right word?) the NCHC of expecting (wrong word again). Not that I'd complain with a $1 million/year+ TV deal (for the TV as much a the money), but nobody anywhere in their right mind expects that.

Curious about the tuition. I don't know how most schools do it for athletes, but I know tuition for research/graduate assistants gets counted against departmental budgets. If they only had to count the $15/hour those poor kids make after their "free tuition" there'd be a whole lot more grad/PhD students getting free rides out there! It's almost not fair if athletic departments aren't operating under the same rules (not that "fair" is necessarily in the cards). I'll have to ask a source too (we can chat about that more later!).

On St. Cloud's arena - neat renderings, that article that was posted earlier sort of downplayed it I think.

ronmexico
09-24-2011, 11:10 PM
That makes sense. All in the accounting. Either way, if there's only $350k/year being contributed from the endowment, they could sustain that program for a long long time. At the same time, if we're talking +/- a couple hundred thousand, we're not dealing with the huge financial windfall, I don't think, that many have accused (is that even the right word?) the NCHC of expecting (wrong word again). Not that I'd complain with a $1 million/year+ TV deal (for the TV as much a the money), but nobody anywhere in their right mind expects that.

Curious about the tuition. I don't know how most schools do it for athletes, but I know tuition for research/graduate assistants gets counted against departmental budgets. If they only had to count the $15/hour those poor kids make after their "free tuition" there'd be a whole lot more grad/PhD students getting free rides out there! It's almost not fair if athletic departments aren't operating under the same rules (not that "fair" is necessarily in the cards). I'll have to ask a source too (we can chat about that more later!).

On St. Cloud's arena - neat renderings, that article that was posted earlier sort of downplayed it I think.

A few of us would like to know who you are at least. Maybe over a beer before the game? Will you be on hand for the game next Sunday?

7&7
09-24-2011, 11:39 PM
Please, somebody, anybody else, address this, so I don't have to continue to be the NCHC's designated forum punching bag.

Minot State? Minot State!!?? If you think that's the future of NCAA D-1 college hockey, then we are doomed to fail. No offense to anybody in the fine town of Minot (Mind-rot, according the Air Force folks I know), but could we possibly think any smaller for hockey???



This is ignorant. Minot State enrolls nearly a thousand more students per year than CC, and their city is only slightly smaller than Mankato. In all other sports Minot will join the NSIC next year, one of the premier division 2 conferences in the nation. Their club team was even able to recruit Dustin Penner. I do not see any doom associated with their admittance to any D1 hockey conference.

PenaltyBoxBeast
09-25-2011, 12:40 AM
This is ignorant. Minot State enrolls nearly a thousand more students per year than CC, and their city is only slightly smaller than Mankato. In all other sports Minot will join the NSIC next year, one of the premier division 2 conferences in the nation. Their club team was even able to recruit Dustin Penner. I do not see any doom associated with their admittance to any D1 hockey conference.

CC has 2,000 students. There are roughly 10 who show up to games. The other 440,000 people of Colorado Springs and the other 300,000 in the greater Pikes Peak and Pueblo regions support the Tiger hockey quite nicely.

I would support Minot having a team. The more teams the better. With that in mind though, Minot is not NCHC material. I would love to see a Minot, Morehead, Air Force, Minnesota State, UAH, Bemidji league.

state of hockey
09-25-2011, 11:04 AM
AFA isn't going anywhere Army and Navy won't.

MavsFan
09-25-2011, 11:56 AM
With that in mind though, Minot is not NCHC material. I would love to see a Minot, Morehead, Air Force, Minnesota State, UAH, Bemidji league.I hereby apologize to any Gopher fan I may have thought was arrogant. This statement sets the bar at a heretofor inconceivable level.

SiouxFanatic
09-25-2011, 04:26 PM
This is ignorant. Minot State enrolls nearly a thousand more students per year than CC, and their city is only slightly smaller than Mankato. In all other sports Minot will join the NSIC next year, one of the premier division 2 conferences in the nation. Their club team was even able to recruit Dustin Penner. I do not see any doom associated with their admittance to any D1 hockey conference.

One small correction to your post, Dustin Penner played a year at MSU-Bottineau(now called Dakota College at Bottineau) before going to UMaine.

ExileOnDaytonStreet
09-25-2011, 08:03 PM
the WCHA
should go after some new members before adding the Atlantic hockey schools and Bowling Green. Schools like Minot State, Moorehead, Northwood,
Wisconsin-Green Bay would fit the profile for the conference better than the eastern schools. Those 4 schools along with Bowling Green and UAH should form another conference.This is crazy enough as it is without people going crazy. UWGB? Really?

LynahFan
09-26-2011, 02:08 AM
Mankato was tough in 2003, with Joseph and Stevenson. They gave everyone a run for their money that year, but were eventually trapped into submission by Cornell in the NCAA's.
5-2 was a trap game?

I distinctly remember watching that game and thinking, "what the heck is Cornell doing? Why are they taking so many chances on offense?" Which is why I'm posting on a message board instead of coaching...

Bakunin
09-26-2011, 09:44 AM
This is ignorant. Minot State enrolls nearly a thousand more students per year than CC, and their city is only slightly smaller than Mankato.
Just about every school in existence has more students than CC, so that point of comparison is without meaning.

4four4
09-26-2011, 12:57 PM
5-2 was a trap game?

I distinctly remember watching that game and thinking, "what the heck is Cornell doing? Why are they taking so many chances on offense?" Which is why I'm posting on a message board instead of coaching...

Every NHL team plays the "trap" and during the time they are playing take many chances.

Goon
09-27-2011, 06:03 PM
5-2 was a trap game?

I distinctly remember watching that game and thinking, "what the heck is Cornell doing? Why are they taking so many chances on offense?" Which is why I'm posting on a message board instead of coaching...
Not to start a fight because Cornell has been traditionally a strong hockey school but why would anyone want to want a defensive game, why not recruit players that can score? If you get up on Cornell by a couple of goals you can take them off of their game. Yuck trap hockey is boring to watch, I would rather watch a 5-3, 7-6 hockey game...

Goon
09-27-2011, 06:23 PM
Best part about this move? Trips to Val's, MC's Dugout and the Red Carpet are assured for years to come. I will make it a yearly trip!

The Hairy Buffalo...