Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

[Osorojo]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

4X4: You apparently have observed and participated in the hockey culture everywhere in the United States in addition to Minnesota. Please reveal a few of the more important differences you have discovered between the "hockey culture" in Minnesota and that in ___________________ [name the states].

[4four4]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

So you agree that the NCAA CHL ban benefits the minnesota system? And if it benefits no other sytem (and it doesn't), then isn't the NCAA CHL ban in place, right now, merely to keep the status quo in Minnesota? And it that is so -- then isn't that exactly what I said earlier in this thread, mutiple times, only to have hyper-defensive Minnesotans scream about "no proof"?

You can't have it both ways, kids.

It for sure helps the Minnesota system and John Mariucci made dang sure it became that way. John Mariucci was pro Minnesota first, pro USA second and pro Canada third. Complain all you want but nobody else from the USA in the 1960's and 1970's came to the plate and complained about the current setup. While NCAA Canadian coaches complained there wasn't enough of them to change the current set up.

[jnacc]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

wow, you call them out they respond and you have a problem with the response so flip them off. how about CHL'ers give it a rest then? why is it we need threads from the 3 CHL fans on this board annually proclaiming CHL>NCAA?

must be NCAA hockey is quite successful in their own right in developing NHL talent. Especially Mike Eaves, Jerry York and that tool at Nodak.

Pray tell where any of the "3" "CHL" posters ever stated the CHL>NCAA......unless of course you mean those who wish the current structure to exclude the CHL remains in place as they obviously feel CHL players are better and will bump out the little Minny high school players en mass.

Happy, please tell me the percentage of players who jump right into the NCAA from you little quaint Minnesota high school leagues. My guess is that it quite below the 50% mark and that many of your elite graduating high school players go on to the USHL for one or two seasons before entering the NCAA….So yes we know that according to you, the average CHL player is far superior to anything in your high school leagues but please explain to us non Minnesotans how the CHL would ruin your high school hockey leagues if they were to become eligible?

[JDUBBS1280]

It for sure helps the Minnesota system and John Mariucci made dang sure it became that way. John Mariucci was pro Minnesota first, pro USA second and pro Canada third. Complain all you want but nobody else from the USA in the 1960's and 1970's came to the plate and complained about the current setup. While NCAA Canadian coaches complained there wasn't enough of them to change the current set up.

Here we go again, back to blaming Minnesota Hockey for the CHL ban. Of course Mariucci favored it, but it had MUCH more to do with advancing USA Hockey than Minnesota Hockey. Minnesota Hockey was fine before the CHL ban, is fine now, and will be fine if lifted. Besides, as was pointed out already, Mariucci was an old man dying of cancer when the CHL ban was imposed.

I have yet to see one piece of concrete proof that Minnesota Hockey was solely responsible for the CHL ban, or how it benefits Minnesota Hockey more than hockey in other areas. Minnesota Hockey has historically done it's own thing, and has often clashed with AHAUS, USA Hockey (see recent Pewee checking rule), and the NCAA. We develop, recruit, and play our own. That won't change regardless of whether CHL players are allowed in the NCAA.

[solovsfett]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

Pray tell where any of the "3" "CHL" posters ever stated the CHL>NCAA......unless of course you mean those who wish the current structure to exclude the CHL remains in place as they obviously feel CHL players are better and will bump out the little Minny high school players en mass.

Happy, please tell me the percentage of players who jump right into the NCAA from you little quaint Minnesota high school leagues. My guess is that it quite below the 50% mark and that many of your elite graduating high school players go on to the USHL for one or two seasons before entering the NCAA….So yes we know that according to you, the average CHL player is far superior to anything in your high school leagues but please explain to us non Minnesotans how the CHL would ruin your high school hockey leagues if they were to become eligible?

you know better than this. you imply CHL>NCAA annually. you're one of the 3 to whom I refer.

CHL aged-out players won't make a dimesworth of difference in the NCAA, and very likely won't make the rosters of the big schools I generally watch, namely Wisconsin and the teams they play against (MN, Nodak, CC, DU)

Stepan, McDonagh, McBain, Oshie, Toews, P. Martin, Ballard, Leopold, J. Pohl, and the list goes on and on and on. if you think the age-out CHL'ers would supplant these guys on an NCAA roster I want what you're smokin

EDIT - I'll add that since this ban has been in effect since what? 88? 89? NCAA hockey has been fine. if anything the # of NHL'ers produced by the NCAA since that time to the present has increased dramatically.

as for the recent group of kids to spurn their commitments, it goes in cycles. see what transpires over the next 4 years

[Happy]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

Pray tell where any of the "3" "CHL" posters ever stated the CHL>NCAA......unless of course you mean those who wish the current structure to exclude the CHL remains in place as they obviously feel CHL players are better and will bump out the little Minny high school players en mass.

Happy, please tell me the percentage of players who jump right into the NCAA from you little quaint Minnesota high school leagues. My guess is that it quite below the 50% mark and that many of your elite graduating high school players go on to the USHL for one or two seasons before entering the NCAA….So yes we know that according to you, the average CHL player is far superior to anything in your high school leagues but please explain to us non Minnesotans how the CHL would ruin your high school hockey leagues if they were to become eligible?

Go look at Denver when MJ players were eligible. Not a single American anywhere to be found. That is why the majority of American's who have a Gold Medal are from Minnesota. How many CHL players use up their eligibility and can't go pro every year? It's probably at least 300 players with nothing better to do than bump younger players off of NCAA teams.
If you are too stupid to see how that would impact non-CHL players, than so be it.

[JDUBBS1280]

Pray tell where any of the "3" "CHL" posters ever stated the CHL>NCAA......unless of course you mean those who wish the current structure to exclude the CHL remains in place as they obviously feel CHL players are better and will bump out the little Minny high school players en mass.

Happy, please tell me the percentage of players who jump right into the NCAA from you little quaint Minnesota high school leagues. My guess is that it quite below the 50% mark and that many of your elite graduating high school players go on to the USHL for one or two seasons before entering the NCAA….So yes we know that according to you, the average CHL player is far superior to anything in your high school leagues but please explain to us non Minnesotans how the CHL would ruin your high school hockey leagues if they were to become eligible?

LOL! In the same post you start by telling us that lifting the CHL ban will "bump out" loads of "Minnesota high school players" (wishful thinking on your part), then ask him to explain "how the CHL will ruin your high school hockey leagues". You can't even keep your bull crap statements straight.

Let me help you out. The CHL has LITTLE effect on Minnesota High School Hockey. Virtually none. Not before the CHL ban, not now, and it won't if they lift the ban.

[Lakerblue]

LOL! In the same post you start by telling us that lifting the CHL ban will "bump out" loads of "Minnesota high school players" (wishful thinking on your part), then ask him to explain "how the CHL will ruin your high school hockey leagues". You can't even keep your bull crap statements straight.

Let me help you out. The CHL has LITTLE effect on Minnesota High School Hockey. Virtually none. Not before the CHL ban, not now, and it won't if they lift the ban.

But you needed two north dakotans and an austrian to win anything!

So I get this straight: the ncaa is the defender of USA Hockey? Its the ncaa's role to be the great protector of the american game? That is what is sounds like some people are saying. And does the american game need protecting? If it does need protecting, that's sounds like the canadians would take all the roster spots without the chl ban. And that's sound to me like the canadian system produces better players, and more of them, such that ncaa rosters would be flooded and american kids would be locked out. Is that what you're saying?

[jnacc]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

LOL! In the same post you start by telling us that lifting the CHL ban will "bump out" loads of "Minnesota high school players" (wishful thinking on your part), then ask him to explain "how the CHL will ruin your high school hockey leagues". You can't even keep your bull crap statements straight.

Let me help you out. The CHL has LITTLE effect on Minnesota High School Hockey. Virtually none. Not before the CHL ban, not now, and it won't if they lift the ban.

Well let’s start from the top here....I clearly stated that "they" feel, referring to posters such as Happy who see lifting the ban as the Armageddon for high school hockey in Minny. Secondly, if the CHL would have little to no effect on Minnesota High school Hockey (which I agree with wholeheartedly) then why should the ban remain in place???

Go look at Denver when MJ players were eligible. Not a single American anywhere to be found.

Once again, this aint 1976 anymore Grampa. Back then there was what, 100,000 registered hockey players in the U.S. Today there are close to 500K. Only you and your ilk who feel that CHLers and Canadian in general are so superior to U.S. ones think that a school like Denver would revert back to a 100% CHL laden Canadian roster.

you know better than this. you imply CHL>NCAA annually. you're one of the 3 to whom I refer.

CHL aged-out players won't make a dimes worth of difference in the NCAA, and very likely won't make the rosters of the big schools I generally watch, namely Wisconsin and the teams they play against (MN, Nodak, CC, DU)

Stepan, McDonagh, McBain, Oshie, Toews, P. Martin, Ballard, Leopold, J. Pohl, and the list goes on and on and on. if you think the age-out CHL'ers would supplant these guys on an NCAA roster I want what you're smokin

My you have always been a yappy little puppy dog for ever chasing your stubby tail.....guess what Slovos, we are on the same page here....you just can't see it. Naturally you could not find a shred of evidence where I and the other two posters always state CHL>NCAA but you cannot even comprehend what we are saying.....Of course no aged out CHLer would bump any of the players you mentioned, all they would do is raise the level of play by providing the smaller schools (the have-nots) with a greater talent pool in order to be more competitive with the larger schools....it would be a win-win. People like Happy don't see it that way, he feels that these aged out CHLers would bump the American born players out and we would revert back to what college hockey looked like in the mid to late 70's. I don't buy that and, even if you can't figure it out....either do you!

[JDUBBS1280]

But you needed two north dakotans and an austrian to win anything!

So I get this straight: the ncaa is the defender of USA Hockey? Its the ncaa's role to be the great protector of the american game? That is what is sounds like some people are saying. And does the american game need protecting? If it does need protecting, that's sounds like the canadians would take all the roster spots without the chl ban. And that's sound to me like the canadian system produces better players, and more of them, such that ncaa rosters would be flooded and american kids would be locked out. Is that what you're saying?

And yet, we're the only school to win an NCAA title with only in-state kids, and we did that twice (1976, 1979). Both while CHL players were still allowed to play in the NCAA. Not bad for a bunch of "little high school players", ha? We also made numerous Frozen Fours with just Minnesotans on our roster. Like I said, the CHL rule had little effect on how Minnesota Hockey did business before the ban, and would have little effect if the ban were ever lifted.

Lifting the CHL ban probably would take roster spots from Americans, but Minnesotans would be BY FAR the least effected.

[JDUBBS1280]

JNACC - Please, show me where I ever objected to lifting the ban. Please. I have no problem with lifting the ban for CHL players 18 or under.

[jnacc]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

JNACC - Please, show me where I ever objected to lifting the ban. Please. I have no problem with lifting the ban for CHL players 18 or under.

Why only 18 or under?

[JDUBBS1280]

Why only 18 or under?

I don't like 20+ yr old freshmen, CHL or not. Though I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to lifting the ban with no limitations, my preference would be only kids 18 and under. Besides, I think it would be a much easier sell.

[jnacc]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

I don't like 20+ yr old freshmen, CHL or not. Though I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to lifting the ban with no limitations, my preference would be only kids 18 and under.

Then why make the ban only applicable to 20+ CHLers as many freshman from the domestic and Tier II leagues in Canada are 20+?

[JDUBBS1280]

Then why make the ban only applicable to 20+ CHLers as many freshman from the domestic and Tier II leagues in Canada are 20+?

I wasn't aware that I made the ban. I said I would prefer to see less 20+ year-old freshmen period. Obviously, I have little control over what the NCAA does. If they just lifted the CHL ban all together, I wouldn't lose sleep over it. Like I said, I don't think it would have much effect on Minnesota Hockey.