Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

[NorthernLite]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

And Murphy likely to miss all of 2011/12 with yet another injury. bet the NCAA route looking a little better to him now.

USA Hockey reported he will be sidelined 4-5 months according to the radio report I listened to.
Sarnia Sting Coach & GM was later interviewed and advised that Connor was having arthroscopic surgery and recovery shouldn't take any longer than 3-4 weeks.

Given this situation, why would you bet the NCAA route would look better to him now ?
This injury would have effected his 2011/12 season regardless of where he chose to play....wouldn't it ?

[AVFC]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

A couple of random thoughts:

1. High-end talent is already leaving college hockey. By this I mean Moore, Tinordi, Gibson, Campbell, Miller, Murphy, etc. These are all American born, first-round NHL draft picks. You could even add Etem, Boucher (god only knows why) and Pitlick (not the best example) to the list. The best players coming out of Minnesota each year (Bjugstad, Lucia, LaBate, Nelson etc.) are still going to college. Even if you changed the rule, they would still take the NCAA route. Changing this rule would have ZERO impact on hockey in MN or at the University of Minnesota. Minnesota will continue to produce very fine hockey players and in large numbers. Even if they considered taking ex-CHL players (which they won’t for a variety of cultural reasons) you could argue that they wouldn’t need to.

2. How many CHL players are actually under NHL contracts? (not drafted, actually under contract). Does anyone know this number? Most NHL teams don’t want to sign players before they absolutely need to. As an organization they are limited to 50 total professional contracts. As stated before, the one-pro/all-pro rule is illogical and indefensible in light of the treatment of NCAA golfers and tennis players. It’s ok to play against Tiger Woods, but not okay to play again Louis LeBlanc?

3. Only the “weaker” CHL players would be attracted to NCAA hockey. The term weaker is relative. Even the weaker players are very, very skilled and would improve the quality of NCAA hockey. Most of the CHL kids who are not ready for a professional contract at age 20, have not matured physically as some would have hoped. Two kids from Detroit’s organization that fit this mold are Alan Quine and Brooks Macek. Both would be great additions to college hockey and both could use the extra development time. Even without the very best CHL players, the NCAA game would improve under a modified rule. If the quality of NCAA hockey improves, and, more importantly, we normalize the CHL (vilification = encouragement), we will be able to retain more of our very good American players. Also consider what impact this change would have on family advisors and agents. Schools also won’t need to worry about CHL teams getting to/talking to players earlier.

4. Why isn’t CIS hockey better? I honestly think it is fine. The total number of ex-CHL players playing in it, however, is comparatively low. This educational money disappears if you sign any pro contract. The kids that don’t get an NHL contract and decide to try their hands in the ECHL (or lower) can kiss this money good bye.

5. Good American players will never come back for NCAA hockey. Are you sure about that? They leave home to play in the USHL, prep school, etc. and continue on to college? Why would going away to Brandon be any different from going away to Sioux City?

6. Would the comparative advantages of NCAA hockey be lost if they modified the rule?
No, you will still have older competition and still have a stronger practice-to-game ratio…and the girls in Madison will still look better than the ones in Saskatoon.

[Almington]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

Excellent point with regard to professional sponsorship. To a point. Corporate does not mean an actual professional hockey team. Honey Baked Ham is a corporation. Compuware is a corporation. The Red Wings are not merely a corporation, but a living breathing professional hockey organization. And its not as though Michigan Youth hockey is merely taking money from them -- its a whole system with the logo attached and everything. Now, I don't know how deep that system and support goes beyond the facial branding of the program. But I think there is a difference. And if this is OK with the NCAA, then what?

I don't know that I agree with the concept of "one pro, all pro." The NCAA certainly doesn't make this distinction in golf or tennis. I don't have an answer, it just seems like the NCAA makes up these rules as they go along.

In this case, the Red Wings are just like any other organization and can sponsor the activities of the MAHA and allow the MAHA to use their logo. As long as the players are not paid to play hockey, they are not professionals.

The thing with golf and tennis is that they are individual sports, not team sports, and that provided that the players don't accept any financial awards from performance, they keep their amateur status.

[jnacc]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

Eaves was talking about the percentage of players. Many more total MJ players than NCAA, so they are saying that the number of NCAA players in the NHL, as apercentage of total NCAA players is equal or higher than the MJ

What This makes no sense....furthermore there are nearly as many total NCAA teams and players as there are CHL ones.

AVFC



Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs
A couple of random thoughts:

Excellent post.....you will not, however, convince the proponents of the current rules, such as Happy and Almington to change their opinions as they feel that the CHL is clearly superior to the NCAA and the only way to keep college hockey viable is to ban CHL players.

[fangers]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

USA Hockey reported he will be sidelined 4-5 months according to the radio report I listened to.
Sarnia Sting Coach & GM was later interviewed and advised that Connor was having arthroscopic surgery and recovery shouldn't take any longer than 3-4 weeks.

Given this situation, why would you bet the NCAA route would look better to him now ?
This injury would have effected his 2011/12 season regardless of where he chose to play....wouldn't it ?

I read that he'd miss the whole season, but I guess that's yet to be seen.

I'd bet the NCAA route might look more appealing to him now than it did just a few weeks ago is because he's sustained yet another injury. He's missed more time than he's played the past couple seasons, so it's not that unreasonable to forsee him not being able to be healthy enough to ever be able to play professionally or complete any significant time to accrue the CHL school funds. The NCAA route at least would have given him the education to fall back on.

[jnacc]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

I read that he'd miss the whole season, but I guess that's yet to be seen.

I'd bet the NCAA route might look more appealing to him now than it did just a few weeks ago is because he's sustained yet another injury. He's missed more time than he's played the past couple seasons, so it's not that unreasonable to forsee him not being able to be healthy enough to ever be able to play professionally or complete any significant time to accrue the CHL school funds. The NCAA route at least would have given him the education to fall back on.

He will still have his education to fall back on....as a high end player, he signed what are known as "gold packages" that guarantee his educational expenses no matter what with the exception of signing a NHL contract.

[hobeydog]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

And Murphy likely to miss all of 2011/12 with yet another injury. bet the NCAA route looking a little better to him now.


Agreed...The gloating of the Sting in that video made me sick. I'd really like to see a journalist do an investigative report to determine if money is changing hands.

[hobeydog]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

He will still have his education to fall back on....as a high end player, he signed what are known as "gold packages" that guarantee his educational expenses no matter what with the exception of signing a NHL contract.

Murphy has signed with Phoenix.

[AVFC]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

He will still have his education to fall back on....as a high end player, he signed what are known as "gold packages" that guarantee his educational expenses no matter what with the exception of signing a NHL contract.

Murphy has signed with Phoenix.

Sad to say, a scholarship from Miami would not have been contractually guaranteed for four years. I hope he recovers.

[Happy]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

Never say never Which high school if you don't mind me asking?

I went to Eden Prairie. When I played in the early 90's, we were the whipping boys for Edina, Minnetonka, and the great Bloomington Jefferson teams at the time. Actually, pretty much everyone.

The Wingers. We got our one Class A championship with Johnny Pohl.

[Almington]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

Sad to say, a scholarship from Miami would not have been contractually guaranteed for four years. I hope he recovers.

True, but most schools would find a way to honor the scholarship if he wasn't able to play any longer. He wouldn't be a member of the teamand could not take part in official team activities (as to not count against the 18 scholarship limit) but would have some place in the AD that would come with some funding and keep him in school and learning the administrative and operational side of running a organization.

As it stands now he has his NHL signing bonus and will have the opportunity to focus on rehab and hockey without the distraction of classes and a college social life.

[JDUBBS1280]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

The Wingers. We got our one Class A championship with Johnny Pohl.

Cool. Love the Red wing area. The MSHSL can start by forcing the larger private schools to Class AA and maybe more schools in Class A will have a chance. There is no reason why schools like Breck and St Thomas should be playing Class A (enrollment size or not). If Holy Family Catholic can make the move up, so can these other schools.

[jnacc]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

Murphy has signed with Phoenix.

Then he has no financial worries as he can easily afford his education now.

[FreddyFoyle]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

Eaves was talking about the percentage of players. Many more total MJ players than NCAA, so they are saying that the number of NCAA players in the NHL, as apercentage of total NCAA players is equal or higher than the MJ

No, you are incorrect. Some of us were squabbling about this sentence: "Yet, as Eaves and his college peers are quick to point out, NHL rosters currently have the same percentage of talent from colleges, Major Junior and European leagues." Read more: http://host.madison.com/sports/colle...#ixzz1UqEaKuXw

In other words, Eaves was proposing that the NCAA, CHL and Europe have each developed an equal third of NHL talent. Which is untrue. Which was already been beaten to death and I carry a lot of the blame. For not letting it go.

[JDUBBS1280]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

Then he has no financial worries as he can easily afford his education now.

I believe many entry-level contracts don't pay you a dime until you actually reach the NHL level. Case in point, the deal that Jonas Brodin signed with the Wild.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/125454883.html

Brodin signed a three-year, $2.75 million deal, one that won’t begin until he turns pro with the Wild. In the NHL, his salary-cap hit is $1.475 million when potential bonuses are taken into account.