WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

[davyd83]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

If anything I would expect it may be negotiated up. I believe the Alaska travel issue it more talk then not.

You didn't have a three and a half hour bus ride, overnight stay in Green Bay and a 17 hour trip from Green Bay to Fairbanks, then a similar trip coming home. And not all trips are on Alaska Air. The last time I was there, it was bus to Green Bay, then Green Bay-Minneapolis-Anchorage, then a four hour layover and a puddle jumper to Fairbanks. With Fairbanks-Seattle-Minneapolis-Green Bay-bus coming home.

The flights aren't booked based upon the best possible connections for the visitors, they are based upon best fare and whatever can be booked with available award miles.

More talk then not? How many times have you made the trip?

[giwan]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

You didn't have a three and a half hour bus ride, overnight stay in Green Bay and a 17 hour trip from Green Bay to Fairbanks, then a similar trip coming home. And not all trips are on Alaska Air. The last time I was there, it was bus to Green Bay, then Green Bay-Minneapolis-Anchorage, then a four hour layover and a puddle jumper to Fairbanks. With Fairbanks-Seattle-Minneapolis-Green Bay-bus coming home.The flights aren't booked based upon the best possible connections for the visitors, they are based upon best fare and whatever can be booked with available award miles.More talk then not? How many times have you made the trip?

Made it a few times from Houghton and yes a hassle but a paid for hassle

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

So you're going to convince the Alaska schools to play half of their conference home games on weeknights as opposed to weekends and to play more of their home games during holiday breaks, which traditionally are not great attendance nights? Now you want the schools that are traveling to miss 8 school days instead of six when they have to play both. For a Friday/ Saturday & Wednesday/ Thursday setup, teams generally leave on Wednesday. So you lose 3 school days that week, plus the entire following week. By traveling to both stops separately, they would lose Wed-Fri in each of those weeks, for a total of six days. The NCAA has limits on the number of class days that can be missed. And when you consider that those Mankato-Lake State or Bemidji-Ferris trips are 2 day bus rides, giving up two extra days for Alaska is not a good idea.

Can you please find the bylaws that explain those class days missed limits? I looked and can't find anything describing things that way...

[Skeeterman]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

Any chance of me merging with a cheerleader this season?

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

Any chance of me merging with a cheerleader this season?

Oh yeah...the fat one

[Red Cloud]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

Beats me, I'm just spitballin' ideas, and Syracuse seemed to be the best local to the AHA schools that should have Men's College Hockey.

There's a huge gap between "should" and "will." There's really so such thing as "should," that's simply a term made up by people like you who want to shoehorn non-existent programs into this conference or that conference.

[kingdobbs]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

Ummm... are they STUPID? They'd be willing to pass up a chance to hand out scholarships, be bigger fish in the pond and get extra games some/most years because they are that afraid to go to Alaska? Will someone tell these East Coast liberals that Palin is usually in the lower 48 these days?

Six extra scholarships isn't the winning perk you think it is. The AHA 4 would be joining a league not substantially better than their current one, with no major reduction in travel cost, and which is one team dropping hockey away from being in trouble.

As for the extra games, it's not like we're talking teams like Michigan and Minnesota that will reliably turn trips to Alaska into lucrative home games no matter what. In all likelihood, they'll be able to get half of them home, at most, and may not be able to turn any of them into home games. And given that all of them are in the lower quintile of attendance averages, we're not talking about particularly lucrative home games either.

It's not as much of a slam dunk move as you think it is for them.

[ScoobyFanClub]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

If anything I would expect it may be negotiated up. I believe the Alaska travel issue it more talk then not.

It's not made up ... The biggest issue isn't even travel during the year ... it's the playoffs. If Fairbanks makes the playoffs, suddenly you have to schedule 30 flights on one week's notice to Alaska. Try doing that some time - and see how expensive it is.

[5hole]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

Six extra scholarships isn't the winning perk you think it is. The AHA 4 would be joining a league not substantially better than their current one, with no major reduction in travel cost, and which is one team dropping hockey away from being in trouble.

As for the extra games, it's not like we're talking teams like Michigan and Minnesota that will reliably turn trips to Alaska into lucrative home games no matter what. In all likelihood, they'll be able to get half of them home, at most, and may not be able to turn any of them into home games. And given that all of them are in the lower quintile of attendance averages, we're not talking about particularly lucrative home games either.

It's not as much of a slam dunk move as you think it is for them.

Good points (and you beat me to it ). Even if we got home games v. some good ECAC teams, it is not exactly a huge payday. As for the additional scholies, that is correct as well. While it would get us back to where we were pre-AHA, it is more players but not necessarily the better players that we want. A lot of Niagara's recruiting is against ECAC teams and we do not win many of those battles, mostly because of the leagues we have been in (CHA and AHA). Joining the CCHA leftovers does next to nothing to change that.

Travel would not be much better either, maybe even worse, with a trip to the remote Soo included.

As for the Alaska travel, Squarebanks answers to the questions I posed pretty much explains why the AHA4 are not interested and not STUPID. Commercial travel for a travel party that probably numbers closer to 30 than the paid for 20 is not only costly but a nightmare. Go to Orbitz, put in BUF to FAI, pick a weekend in January and see what you get ... it ain't pretty! And notice that one leg of the trip generally includes a flight on a small plane such as a Canadair or Embraer.

As always, the devil is in the details ... only 20 tickets so the trip is still costly; difficult; 4-hour time zone change. I figure the guy who would hate the Alaska trip the most at Niagara would be new assistant coach Pat Oliveto:

“The role (at Niagara) has not been defined,” said Oliveto. “Actually, it (the Buffalo State experience) will definitely help. I am used to having a lot on my plate. I have not done travel before, so there will be some extra added pressure. If we go on the road and something gets screwed up, it will be on me.”

Even what seems like a minor endeavor, such as arranging meals for a hungry coaching staff and 20 players on the road, can be a tumultuous experience.

“If the dinners are not good, everyone will look at me,” said Oliveto, who laughed, but at the same time also is feeling some pressure regarding this important responsibility.

[Squarebanks]

It's not made up ... The biggest issue isn't even travel during the year ... it's the playoffs. If Fairbanks makes the playoffs, suddenly you have to schedule 30 flights on one week's notice to Alaska. Try doing that some time - and see how expensive it is.

Rick Comley loved going to Alaska on short notice back in March!

Kidding aside, no sympathy for teams having to do a playoff series in AK...us and UAA have every right to be rewarded like everyone else. If other teams don't like it, win more games in the regular season.

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

Rick Comley loved going to Alaska on short notice back in March!

Kidding aside, no sympathy for teams having to do a playoff series in AK...us and UAA have every right to be rewarded like everyone else. If other teams don't like it, win more games in the regular season.

I would assume the playoff travel costs would come out of conference tournament moneys anyway?

[4four4]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

As far as the main point of the thread goes:

Both leagues have to at least discuss merging as a last-resort / fall back / doomsday scenario. If the AHA-4 balk, either one adding Huntsville doesn't do any good, one would still be stuck at 5 teams.

That said, I don't think a merger happens. The auto bid is too much of a recruiting tool to give up. What would you rather compete for - a bid against 7 other teams, or 9?

Ideally, this is how this all shakes out:

WCHA: UAA, BSU, MTU, Mankato, NMU, SCSU.
CCHA: UAH, BGSU, Canisius, Ferris, Mercyhurst, Niagara, RMU

That leaves both with 6 solid teams. UA_, Lake State, and Western are the "wildcards" that could go with either conference and be fine. WMU could still end up in the Nat, for all we know. If Moorhead gets the funding, they have a slot open in the WCHA.

If it plays out well, Alabama-Huntsville gets a home and both conferences have at least seven teams each, pending what the three wildcards end up doing.

Where does UAF play?

[5hole]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

Rick Comley loved going to Alaska on short notice back in March!

Kidding aside, no sympathy for teams having to do a playoff series in AK...us and UAA have every right to be rewarded like everyone else. If other teams don't like it, win more games in the regular season.

That would be another issue for the AHA4. And I can tell you from experience that short notice for group travel to Alaska is a nightmare. Our Gwinnett ECHL team had to play the Kelly Cup finals against Anchorage a few years back. We needed to get a travel party of around 35 to Anchorage with about two or three days to to get them there from the time we found out who we were playing (Alaska beat Fresno, so we found out at about 1a.m. - we had travel agents on standby to begin booking right away). A charter flight was not feasible and I think we had guys on about seven different flights. AND ... it absolutely blew away our travel budget. I am sure the AHA4 will continue to say "NO THANK YOU!" to that idea.

[Squarebanks]

I would assume the playoff travel costs would come out of conference tournament moneys anyway?

I'm not sure how it works for conference tourneys.

[5hole]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

I'm not sure how it works for conference tourneys.

And how much money does anyone think that a tournament in the reconstituted CCHA would generate? Who knows what type of Tournament the revised league would come up with ... if there were just six or seven teams in the league, it could end up somewhat similar to the old CHA tourney - a very intimate little party.

BTW, last week I looked up the last time Niagara and BGSU played ... it was a few years back (2007?), a home and home ... attendance at Niagara was ~1800, at Bowling Green it was barely 1000.