The end of leagues as we know?

[Gurtholfin]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

He's beating the same drum that everyone has been pounding ad nauseum for days. To blame MTU, SCSU, etc. for the WCHA folding is obviously ridiculous. First, his conjecture didn't actually happen. Second, the CCHA was trashed as soon as they lost their three best teams to the B10 (the WCHA lost two middle-of-the-pack also-rans, to no great effect). ND and Miami weren't staying, no matter what. So now instead of one, two conferences are being destroyed.

First of all, I haven't seen that argument made, but I believe I joined this thread about page 25, so maybe I missed "everyone" beating that drum. Also, I never blamed those teams for the WCHA folding.

Second, attempted murder (actually it would be more along the lines of manslaughter) of small college programs is still a crime against college hockey.

Many small school fans are complaining about people making decisions without regard to their personal small schools survival. The problem comes in when those same fans' schools were trying to do the exact same thing.

How about taking a principled stand? We can't vote for this because we could envision ourselves in Ferris State's shoes. No?

So explain exactly how you are different than DU, UND or UW. The fact that your school ultimately failed doesn't absolve them from what they were trying.

[motox]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

This conference just makes no sense. Anyone with half a brain can see that revenue for the teams will not change in any significant way, and expenditures will be drastically increased.

Only Miami and Western could make an argument for *maybe* seeing an uptick in revenue due to a better attended conference tournament (pure speculation based upon the assumption that the CCHA is going to be in rough shape once the BT teams leave) and more loyal attendance to regular season home games. But, considering Miami's arena only holds 3,600 those gains would be modest at best. At any rate, it could be strongly argued that Miami would be just as well off, if not better off, by simply joining the existing WCHA. Then again, neither Miami nor Western are the ones pushing for this new conference.

As for UMD and UNO, you have to think they are risking the recent rise in success of their programs by joining a league where they could very realistically become perennial cellar-dwellers. CC is another team that could find itself repeatedly finishing bottom half and being on the outside of the NCAA bubble.
UMD will also be leaving a conference with 3 instate rivals and an additional, traditional and close-by Lake Superior rival.
It appears that these 3 programs would go along with DU and UND not because the want to split off, but because they more or less have a gun to their heads.

And the 2 teams that seem to really be pushing for this league, DU and UND...

- Increased attendance to games doesn't seem to be realistic. All of DU's rivals are already in the WCHA. Replacing numerous conference series for 1 conference series against Miami (2 at best if somehow Notre Dame agrees to join the league) and a bunch of non-conference series isn't going to increase gate revenue. Conference games nearly always draw better than non-conference games.
UND is going to have near sell-outs regardless of which league they play in.

- A pipe dream about putting together a lucrative national TV deal doesn't add up. None of the teams in this league (with the exception of the uncommitted Notre Dame) have the name recognition or the alumni base to make such a deal viable. Rather, working within the WCHA to broker a more regionally-based deal seems to be far more realistic. FSN-North will have a great deal of new air-time to fill on Friday and Saturday nights, and there are a number of local teams playing in the WCHA that would garner the local interest to justify putting those games on air (think NESN for Hockey East). As is the case now, those FSN broadcasts can be picked up by a variety of other FSN regional channels. Other regional outlets would also be possibilities for getting games on the air. Far more than trying to strike a deal with a national broadcaster. Even with rumors about Vs. being interested in adding college hockey, how much more money will be generated from a deal with a station that the vast majority of television viewers don't even know exists? Will it be enough for UND to cover all the additional airfare associated with this new league?

- Conference tournament revenue is not going to outpace what could be accrued for a WCHA tournament held in a location within reasonable driving distance to numerous teams within the league.

Ultimately, this push by DU and UND appears to be in reaction to a fear that they will not be able to continue attracting high-end recruits in a WCHA that does not include Minnesota and Wisconsin; and that they will eventually slip to become mediocre hockey programs inferior to the Hockey East and Big Ten powers.

Not only does that view seem far too reactionary to me, but it is incredibly petty for fans of these programs to trash the programs left behind for "not doing enough to be able stand on their own." DU and UND are worried about their own programs falling to the point where they will be in the same boat.

That fear seems highly unrealistic to me. So again, I say this league makes no sense.

Easily top 5 post in this thread and probably #1. Well said.

[The Sicatoka]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

... Gwozdecky ... surprisingly civil.

Never would I thought to see those words together.

[dggoddard]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

This conference just makes no sense.

Then again, neither Miami nor Western are the ones pushing for this new conference.

As for UMD and UNO, you have to think they are risking the recent rise in success of their programs by joining a league where they could very realistically become perennial cellar-dwellers. CC is another team that could find itself repeatedly finishing bottom half and being on the outside of the NCAA bubble..

Just a few points.

Miami pushed hard for this --- Its in one of the newspaper articles. Miami's attendance in a decimated CCHA would of taken a massive hit to a program that just shelled out $40+ million for a new arena. This was a no-brainer for them.

UNO was drawing 8,000 towards the end of last season. Their fans have proven that they'll back a winner and they want to see name brand opponents. Omaha is a wealthy city and there's no reason that they won't draw the second biggest crowds in the Super League in due time. Most important, Omaha is in the heart of USHL country. Super League teams will be using Omaha trips as de facto recruiting visits.

CC - Fanbase are not alums or people tied to the school. CC had had to drop ticket prices despite successful seasons lately because the WCHA had become too watered down. Give Springs residents name brand opponents and a few wins and it will re-energize the program. They will see an uptick in attendance.

UMD - awesome new arena & NC Banner. Say no more.

DU & UND - Want to be national powers with NHL draftees.

[4four4]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

People seem to be forgetting something really important here the WCHA and more importantly the BHHC will lose the Twin Cities market. How many Twin Cities kids will get to see UND, DU etc? Not many their eyeballs are gone! On the other hand they will see the BTN showcasing its members.

[motox]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

Just a few points.

Miami pushed hard for this --- Its in one of the newspaper articles. Miami's attendance in a watered down CCHA would of taken a massive hit to a program that just shelled out $40 million for a new arena. This was a no-brainer for them.

UNO was drawing 8,000 towards the end of last season. Their fans have proven that they'll back a winner and they want to see name brand opponents. Omaha is a wealthy city and there's no reason that they won't draw the second biggest crowds in the Super League in due time. Most important, Omaha is in the heart of USHL country. Super League teams will be using Omaha trips as de facto recruiting visits.

CC - Fanbase are not alums or people tied to the school. CC had had to drop ticket prices despitegood seasons lately because the WCHA was too watered down. Give Springs residents name brand opponents and a few wins and it will re-energize the program. They will see an uptick in attendance.

UMD - awesome new arena & NC Banner. Say no more.

DU & UND - Want to be national powers with NHL draftees.

Way to address very little of what was actually said and just throw out your own agenda. Just because UMD has a new arena and won the NC LAST year does not prevent them from becoming a perennial bottom 3 team in this league.

Miami's attendance woes won't be resurrected with teams like CC, DU, UNO, or UMD coming to town. If you think for a second the fans of that program will get up as much as they did for Michigan, MSU, or OSU you're kidding yourself.

What happens to UNO when they realize they just got in over their heads and can't put a winning product on the ice in this new conference. You said yourself they'll back a winner, hopefully they'll still pay the admissions to see a team finish at the bottom of their conference year after year and not make the NCAAs.

CC will see an uptick in attendance? Why, because they added Miami to the schedule who 95% of the people in CO have never heard of. All those other teams were already on CCs schedule but all they're doing now is reducing the number of conference games fans will want to attend.

The agenda you're pushing to try making this look like a great decision continues to be proven wrong with every argument you make. It's bad for college hockey, period.

[giwan]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

People seem to be forgetting something really important here the WCHA and more importantly the BHHC will lose the Twin Cities market. How many Twin Cities kids will get to see UND, DU etc? Not many their eyeballs are gone! On the other hand they will see the BTN showcasing its members.

That won't matter that much. Kids know where the schools and the schollies are. The BTN will probably not gain much more viewership because of hockey so I doubt there will be an increased cash flow compared to what football and bball create. There really is nothing on Friday nights on the BTN so hockey fits in well, but then another game on what day? Sunday? Monday? Against the NFL? No way that works, but maybe later in the season.

[Gurtholfin]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

People seem to be forgetting something really important here the WCHA and more importantly the BHHC will lose the Twin Cities market. How many Twin Cities kids will get to see UND, DU etc? Not many their eyeballs are gone! On the other hand they will see the BTN showcasing its members.

Any chance that FSN would show whatever conference the state schools end up in?

If the schools were smart, and FSN were willing, they'd give away the rights for a few league games that pit Minnesota schools against one another. Do this for a few years and see if there is any revenue to be had and then start getting paid, albeit probably not a whole lot.

From everything you Gopher fans have spouted over the years, you just can't possibly see enough hockey and this would be a chance to see many Minnesota natives playing D-1 for state schools.

I'd actually watch it if I was up there.

Just a thought...

[dggoddard]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

Miami's attendance woes won't be resurrected with teams like CC, DU, UNO, or UMD coming to town. If you think for a second the fans of that program will get up as much as they did for Michigan, MSU, or OSU you're kidding yourself.

Michigan, MSU & OSU are leaving Miami & the CCHA. Miami HAD to make this move.

[Dude Love]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

People seem to be forgetting something really important here the WCHA and more importantly the BHHC will lose the Twin Cities market. How many Twin Cities kids will get to see UND, DU etc? Not many their eyeballs are gone! On the other hand they will see the BTN showcasing its members.

But who even is aware of BTN? They're like Versus. Not being on FSN anymore will hurt the Gophers.

[stuckinwi]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

Just a few points.

Miami pushed hard for this --- Its in one of the newspaper articles. Miami's attendance in a decimated CCHA would of taken a massive hit to a program that just shelled out $40+ million for a new arena. This was a no-brainer for them.

UNO was drawing 8,000 towards the end of last season. Their fans have proven that they'll back a winner and they want to see name brand opponents. Omaha is a wealthy city and there's no reason that they won't draw the second biggest crowds in the Super League in due time. Most important, Omaha is in the heart of USHL country. Super League teams will be using Omaha trips as de facto recruiting visits.

CC - Fanbase are not alums or people tied to the school. CC had had to drop ticket prices despitegood seasons lately because the WCHA was too watered down. Give Springs residents name brand opponents and a few wins and it will re-energize the program. They will see an uptick in attendance.

UMD - awesome new arena & NC Banner. Say no more.

DU & UND - Want to be national powers with NHL draftees.

What happens if CC doesn't win as much with the "watered" down WHCA? Someone has to be last... Losing does help attendance... As a Tech fan, I sadly know how that works... Miami, UNO, and UMD brand name? Since when? Sure UMD just won the NC, lucky timing for them... they're on the upswing.

[dggoddard]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

What happens if CC doesn't win as much with the "watered" down WHCA? Someone has to be last... Losing does help attendance... As a Tech fan, I sadly know how that works... Miami, UNO, and UMD brand name? Since when? Sure UMD just won the NC, lucky timing for them... they're on the upswing.

CC just took Boston College to the woodshed in the NCAAs, they will be the only SL team with Olympic ice and they are 1,000 feet higher than Denver.

[Gurtholfin]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

But who even is aware of BTN? They're like Versus. Not being on FSN anymore will hurt the Gophers.

I always enjoyed that argument about Versus from national pundits. "The NHL is on Versus? I can't even find that channel."

There's this button on cable and satellite remotes, usually called "guide." If one presses this, just like magic, a, well, guide will come up on the screen listing each channel, what it's called and even what's on that channel.

Of course the TV must be turned on first for this technological marvel to work.


Edit: The guide probably still works even with the TV off as it's run through the cable box. You just won't be able to see it. So I guess technically I can't prove that it's in fact working, since I can't see it, but in theory, it must be.

[The Sicatoka]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

Not being on FSN anymore will hurt the Gophers.

And that is why I suspect UMD was added to this plan.
FSN will need programming and with the UND and UMD there's two easy ways to fill the void and get at least a portion of the MSP media market.

[Flashy Man]

Re: The end of leagues as we know?

A lot of this seems similar to the dissolution of the WIHL in 1958, fortunately the teams found common ground again and formed the WCHA.