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LSSU Laker Hockey 2011-12

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  • Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2011-12

    Originally posted by Neil Diamond View Post
    Of course there is. The Soo and Marquette have had a hockey rivalry for decades, and it is at every level, from squirt house up to college. Both teams have struggled attendance-wise, and the reason is pretty obvious: one of the worst recessions since the Great Depression, in an area (U.P.) that naturally and normally struggles a bit more than the rest of the state economically.

    You know how they say when the U.S. sneezes Canada catches a cold? Well, when Detroit and Grand rapids sneeze, the U.P. goes into a coma. There simply is much less expendable income at this point and time. A $5 pizza and $4 movie is keeping families entertained in this economic climate, because $9 is the preferential option for many families over $40 for tickets and $15 for food and drinks at the arena.
    I realize your points there, but at both LSSU and NMU, all the games between the Lakers and Wildcats fell below the average attendance for the schools. When LSSU draws as many for Bowling Green as they do for NMU, it doesn't really say "rivalry." And the same thing in Marquette.
    "The use of common sense and logic will not be tolerated and may result in fine and/or suspension."- Western Professional Hockey League By-laws. 1999-2000.

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    • Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2011-12

      The question of the LSSU/NMU rivalry is well placed, and frankly its something we (Laker fans) need to address. Part of the problem of the regional rivalry lacking firepower is the W-L records of the respective teams. Its not as though LSSU and NMU were having a home and home weekend series in February with a Championship on the line. And even when NMU was having better-than.500 seasons and playing for a top half finish, LSSU rarely reciprocated. In the one span of time when both teams were national powerhouses, they were in different leagues, and never once faced each other in the NCAA tourney. A few random NC games are not enough to illicit a good passionate rivalry. This would be a great atmosphere for rivalries between Tech, NMU, and LSSU if they were all in the same league, battling for league title -- which is why i think the conference reallignment is a good chance.

      The editorial / article from the Evening News was disturbing -- and yet so typical. Here we see the mental picture of the inside of the AD and President's office. We are "LEFTOVERS," and our fans will learn to love playing Mercyhurst. Self loathing combined with a healthy disrespect for the fan base. Sell stupid someplace else, folks.

      Furthermore, as well pointed out by another poster - this is a basketball guy (and a huge High School basketball guy, in addition) writing a random puff piece about the CCHA break up. His insider information? Probably having a few beers with a few basketball coaches and, for the first time in history, saying, "Thank goodness for the stability of the GLIAC." Nonetheless, the mere fact that a discussion of this nature can take place and be accepted as plausible tells me eveything I need to know about the mental state of the inside of the Norris Center's offices.
      Last edited by Lakerblue; 07-18-2011, 12:04 PM.

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      • Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2011-12

        Originally posted by davyd83 View Post
        I realize your points there, but at both LSSU and NMU, all the games between the Lakers and Wildcats fell below the average attendance for the schools. When LSSU draws as many for Bowling Green as they do for NMU, it doesn't really say "rivalry." And the same thing in Marquette.
        It's the economy...$9 pizza and movie night is winning out over $55 hockey night...no matter who is in town. The reason LSSU draws as much for BG as NMU is because there is a fixed group of people who will still attend the games in this economic climate. Those people are always at the games. The difference is casual or occasional fan to the games. It was those fans that produced the good attendance numbers of the past.

        You want to write off a rivalry by attendance numbers for the last year or so. That is extremely short-sighted.

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        • Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2011-12

          Also i know quite a few people that quit going to Laker games because they are fed up with the coaching on the Lakers along with their inconsistant play. Thats a different monster all together.

          But i can't speak for Northern as i know not what might be the reason for your fans to stay away.
          Last edited by PerkyforPrez; 07-18-2011, 12:11 PM.
          BLEED BLUE

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          • Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2011-12

            Originally posted by Lakerblue View Post
            Furthermore, as well pointed out by another poster - this is a basketball guy (and a huge High School basketball guy, in addition) writing a random puff piece about the CCHA break up. His insider information? Probably having a few beers with a few basketball coaches and, for the first time in history, saying, "Thank goodness for the stability of the GLIAC." Nonetheless, the mere fact that a discussion of this nature can take place and be accepted as plausible tells me eveything I need to know about the mental state of the inside of the Norris Center's offices.
            No doubt you're dead on in that analysis.

            There are more than a few people gleefully rubbing their hands together, hoping greed, CCHA ineffectiveness, and WCHA dismissiveness towards LSSU hockey will do what they could only dream of doing all these years: slay the LSSU Hockey dragon, and in doing that place a serious wound on the hockey culture of the area overall. The problem is exacerbated by the fact there are no "hockey people" in positions of power at LSSU right now.

            The high school football, high school basketball, and college basketball vultures are hoovering overhead, hoping it is only a matter of time before they can swoop down on the hockey corpse they see as, if not mortally wounded, at least with serious enough wounds to change the sport culture of the EUP (how's that for creative license???)
            Last edited by Neil Diamond; 07-18-2011, 12:13 PM.

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            • Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2011-12

              Originally posted by Neil Diamond View Post
              No doubt you're dead on in that analysis.

              There are more than a few people gleefully rubbing their hands together, hoping greed, CCHA ineffectiveness, and WCHA dismissiveness towards LSSU hockey will do what they could only dream of doing all these years: slay the LSSU Hockey dragon, and in doing that place a serious wound on the hockey culture of the area overall. The problem is exacerbated by the fact there are no "hockey people" in positions of power at LSSU right now.

              The high school football, high school basketball, and college basketball vultures are hoovering overhead, hoping it is only a matter of time before they can swoop down on the hockey corpse they see as, if not mortally wounded, at least with serious enough wounds to change the sport culture of the EUP (how's that for creative license???)

              It was into this same enviroment that Frank Anzalone brought the persona of Crazy Frank. He refused to allow the small-town-mentality to limit this program. I was there. He absolutely refused. He worked 20 hour days. He hammered the students. He worked the dorm rooms. Literally went into the dorms and rallied the students to support the team. He worked every possible church, Rotary, and men's breakfast club every day, month after month, year after year. He stood strong against those in town who laughed at him, those who said (in their small-town mentality) that a school as small as LSSU can't compete in D-I sports, can't compete in hockey, can't compete nationally. Folks, that man was so darned stubborn and passionate that him and his players hit the ice every day for practice and every night for games, with a rage. Frank told them nobody believed in them -- now go out and prove those SOBs wrong.

              Jeff Jackson carried so much clout that there was nobody in town who could say anything against him. The small-town basketball vultures crushed. The muddy-boot-beer-drinking Soo Indian fans (who, you may recall, also loathed LSSU hcokey) were crushed. When LSSU and Mike Illich combined to rebuild the Norris, the war was won.

              Jackson left town in a fight with the NCAA and a dream of NHL glory. (and also I suspect a large silent issue about assistant coach's pay). In came Borek. Borek was not a D-I coach, or at least he was not a good fit for LSSU. LSSU required constant attention to the small school mentality. Frank preached it -- Jackson perfected it -- "The Whole World Says you Can't -- Go Out There and Prove Them Wrong." This includes the constant attention to the town and students, whose first passion may not be college hockey.

              Frank came back, but lets be honest (and lets not beat a dead horse here), he was not the same his second time around. He was older, had a family, and his enemies were ready for him. After years of Borek losing games, fans, and local interest -- Frank had a tough job. Too many old enemies were far too happy to see Frank founder. And Frank foundered. He did not win many games. He did not reconnect the program to the town. He did not reignite student interest. He did not fight, and win, against the administration.

              Roque followed. He has followed a more Borek-esque approach. Too few wins and too quiet. Not enough connection in town. No connection with the students. Its better under Roque the past few years than any time since Jackson left -- but that isn't saying much.

              This is about vision and passion. The school and the coach are simply going to have to fight the small-town mentality. And the school must connect with the students. I suggesed years ago to allow the students into the games for free. For years North Dakota was the most feared building in the hockey world -- because students got in free, first come, first seated, with a student ID. The student section at UND is still a monster to behold. Free seats will do that. Students don't hav money. And frankly, would the school rather sell more concessions and LSSU gear and have a great atmopshere -- or collect an additional trickle of money squeezed out of the students already-empty pockets?

              Anyhow, just getting fired up today.

              Comment


              • Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2011-12

                Originally posted by Neil Diamond View Post
                It's the economy...$9 pizza and movie night is winning out over $55 hockey night...no matter who is in town. The reason LSSU draws as much for BG as NMU is because there is a fixed group of people who will still attend the games in this economic climate. Those people are always at the games. The difference is casual or occasional fan to the games. It was those fans that produced the good attendance numbers of the past.

                You want to write off a rivalry by attendance numbers for the last year or so. That is extremely short-sighted.
                No one wants to write off that rivalry. Personally, I would love to see both rinks packed for that series, as they should be. I was really hoping last year that attendance would be much better than it had been in the past few seasons. It was always frustrating to see these two teams play on school breaks, and I was really hoping to see things improve with the change in dates, but they didn't. Games like this are among the few times either school has a chance to fill their rinks. Better promotion would help. This is a series that should draw the casual, non season ticket holding fan in both towns. And it's not the numbers for the past year or so. Over the last 10 years LSSU has drawn an average of 2359 for games against NMU at the Taffy. There have been just five crowds of 2500+ in that span and three with less than 2000. NMU has also been right around their seasonal average when LSSU has visited Marquette in that time, with much better crowds when NMU has been in NCAA tourney contention.
                "The use of common sense and logic will not be tolerated and may result in fine and/or suspension."- Western Professional Hockey League By-laws. 1999-2000.

                Comment


                • Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2011-12

                  Blue....for the last several years students do get in free with ID.
                  LSSU had a student only raffle ( $50 @ 50 minutes) for 2 years...if they showed they got a raffle ticket and the drawing was held mid third period.
                  Mild attendance increase in the student section.. T shirts were also tried for the Blue Crew....again, mild results.
                  Dorm room window signs....mild response but no big uptick in attendance.
                  1/2 the students in the building are fundraising or running concessions.
                  A GREAT student section is the life blood of college hockey.
                  When I asked some students why no big crowds........lack of winning was their reason.
                  the students present appeared to be other athletes rather than the student body at large.

                  Sad.
                  Taffy needs the excitement of a rowdy student section!!!!
                  Last edited by 3dognight; 07-18-2011, 02:04 PM.

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                  • Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2011-12

                    We(an outside group of donors) also marketed the heck out of hockey, Billboards, TV commercials in SSM and all of Northern Michigan.
                    Numbers were up but they could not be maintained without winning or playing exciting, competitive hockey.

                    We had a 1/2 Hour Laker Hockey Preview on Charter cable....Nice stuff.

                    The "bump" was 300 average a game.
                    This pilot project did not return enough for cost spent.

                    It was then that a small group decided that an alternative was to put all $$$$ into the new facility / training project.
                    Improving the on ice product is the goal, because when you get people into the building, they MUST see winning, exciting hockey.
                    GREAT match ups are a part of that picture which is why I am Pro-WCHA.
                    Last edited by 3dognight; 07-18-2011, 02:36 PM.

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                    • Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2011-12

                      Statement from Ferris State's AD:

                      http://www.ferrisstatebulldogs.com/i...ockeystatement

                      Comment


                      • Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2011-12

                        Originally posted by 3dognight View Post
                        We(an outside group of donors) also marketed the heck out of hockey, Billboards, TV commercials in SSM and all of Northern Michigan.
                        Numbers were up but they could not be maintained without winning or playing exciting, competitive hockey.

                        We had a 1/2 Hour Laker Hockey Preview on Charter cable....Nice stuff.

                        The "bump" was 300 average a game.
                        This pilot project did not return enough for cost spent.

                        It was then that a small group decided that an alternative was to put all $$$$ into the new facility / training project.
                        Improving the on ice product is the goal, because when you get people into the building, they MUST see winning, exciting hockey.
                        GREAT match ups are a part of that picture which is why I am Pro-WCHA.
                        Lesson: Winning Matters.

                        Do you think winning against Robert Morris and BGSU will bring out the fans more than, or at least equal to, say, winning against Tech and NMU? That appears to be the tone of the Evening News report.

                        Comment


                        • Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2011-12

                          Originally posted by Bill View Post
                          Judging from this AD's comments, it certainly appears that the hoped for merger between the "left overs" of the WCHA/CCHA is not on the table and the best we can hope for is "a new look CCHA!"

                          We as fans can certainly voice our opinions and desires to the AD and even the school president but we're going to have to accept the fact that they have little control and influence over the powers that be in the new WCHA...in short, it appears they do not want us and we cannot force our way in.

                          How excited will fans be over a conference that consists of Ferris, B.G., LSSU, UAH, Niagra and Robert Morris??? Do you think that fans would embrace a Laker team in such a division even if they are competitive? I suspect crowds will average no more than 12-1400 and I wonder if that will be enough to sustain the program?

                          Comment


                          • Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2011-12

                            Originally posted by jnacc View Post
                            Judging from this AD's comments, it certainly appears that the hoped for merger between the "left overs" of the WCHA/CCHA is not on the table and the best we can hope for is "a new look CCHA!"

                            We as fans can certainly voice our opinions and desires to the AD and even the school president but we're going to have to accept the fact that they have little control and influence over the powers that be in the new WCHA...in short, it appears they do not want us and we cannot force our way in.

                            How excited will fans be over a conference that consists of Ferris, B.G., LSSU, UAH, Niagra and Robert Morris??? Do you think that fans would embrace a Laker team in such a division even if they are competitive? I suspect crowds will average no more than 12-1400 and I wonder if that will be enough to sustain the program?
                            There is no WCHA-CCHA merger on the table. With the addition of NMU, the WCHA stands at 6. It appears that they want to get to 8 teams. The proposed program at Minnesota State Moorhead, if it comes to pass is a likely candidate for one of the remaining two spots. When you consider that 3 others in the league are part of the Minnesota State system (Bemidji, St Cloud, Mankato), you can bet that they will only add one more before the Moorhead decision comes in about 3 months.
                            "The use of common sense and logic will not be tolerated and may result in fine and/or suspension."- Western Professional Hockey League By-laws. 1999-2000.

                            Comment


                            • Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2011-12

                              This is about vision and passion. The school and the coach are simply going to have to fight the small-town mentality. And the school must connect with the students. I suggesed years ago to allow the students into the games for free. For years North Dakota was the most feared building in the hockey world -- because students got in free, first come, first seated, with a student ID. The student section at UND is still a monster to behold. Free seats will do that. Students don't hav money. And frankly, would the school rather sell more concessions and LSSU gear and have a great atmopshere -- or collect an additional trickle of money squeezed out of the students already-empty pockets?

                              Anyhow, just getting fired up today.[/QUOTE]

                              Great comments. FYI they do allow students in free, probably in their tuition. They only have to pay for playoff games.
                              Go Lakers!

                              Comment


                              • Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2011-12

                                The CHA, circa 2007:

                                Wayne State (closed)
                                Finlay (closed)
                                Niagara (moved to ECAC)
                                BSU (moved to WCHA, only to be dumped by larger programs)
                                UAH (independant, struggling)
                                Air Force (moved to AHA)

                                Robert Morris was added later.

                                Not exactly a stunning predictor of future succes when, as I see it, the possiblity of a revamped CCHA looks more, and more, and more like a revamped CHA.

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