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beantownchica4u
05-11-2011, 02:44 PM
This upcoming year if players make the cut will they be able to chose where they go?
If make team in Canada would be hard to move from New England since have full time job.

west
05-11-2011, 09:17 PM
This upcoming year if players make the cut will they be able to chose where they go?
If make team in Canada would be hard to move from New England since have full time job.

I'm not really sure what you're asking. The only teams who were involved in the draft were the GTA teams and only involved players who were based in the GTA. If somebody wanted to play for Montreal or Boston (and now Calgary) they'd get to play there. The rules deciding where players play are (to put it lightly) pretty lax in the CWHL.

beantownchica4u
05-12-2011, 08:34 AM
I heard they are trying to bring all teams including Boston and Montreal into the draft. That players if make it would speak to coaches and would try to find best fit for their team.

west
05-15-2011, 09:55 PM
I heard they are trying to bring all teams including Boston and Montreal into the draft. That players if make it would speak to coaches and would try to find best fit for their team.

Would probably be even more of a farce than their first draft if that were the case. What are they going to do with the better players who can't/don't want to make a move from the GTA to Montreal or vice-versa? Block them? I doubt it. They're not getting paid so there's no financial motivation and if they can already make the local team the playing level isn't really motivation either. So you're pretty much left with just a draft for the sake of it just to make for a better press release. I don't think anybody who actually follows the league would be tricked into thinking it provides any sort of legitimacy either.

If there is indeed a draft no players, aside from a few in the GTA I guess, will be forced to play somewhere they don't want to.

brokentwigg
05-24-2011, 03:37 PM
This league is a farce plain and simple!! You have a Director of Scouting who probably hasn't seen a college game in about 3 years!! It has been 1 bonehead decision after another!

Expanding to Alberta has done absolutely nothing positive for the game!! All it has done is force the WWHL to exist!! Well Sami and Brenda, I can see the money coming down the trough now!! You have blatantly lied to players over the past two years regarding "payment" and "professional". Those of us in the know, know that this will never come to fruition!!

Brian Burke has already stated that the Maple Leafs will support women's hockey...but they would rather sponsor it on a development level assisting 1000 girl's rather than paying the salaries of 100 women!!

The jig is up ladies....now, show some accountability and step aside!!!

west
05-24-2011, 05:19 PM
The desire for a top women's hockey team in Alberta exists for one reason, and that's because of Hockey Canada and centralization. Logistically it makes no sense whatsoever for the CWHL, but it seems they're identifying what has traditionally made sense for the top women's hockey players in Canada which is moving to Calgary. The players will continue to do what's best for them until they actually get paid, this is the CWHL preparing for that to try and keep the best players in the league otherwise it will be back to the days when half a dozen or so national team players are playing in a league with no other good teams.

Providing the option for the best players available to play in the best league available in the city they'll have to move to anyway is positive for the game.

brokentwigg
05-24-2011, 08:10 PM
The desire for a top women's hockey team in Alberta exists for one reason, and that's because of Hockey Canada and centralization. Logistically it makes no sense whatsoever for the CWHL, but it seems they're identifying what has traditionally made sense for the top women's hockey players in Canada which is moving to Calgary. The players will continue to do what's best for them until they actually get paid, this is the CWHL preparing for that to try and keep the best players in the league otherwise it will be back to the days when half a dozen or so national team players are playing in a league with no other good teams.

Providing the option for the best players available to play in the best league available in the city they'll have to move to anyway is positive for the game.

So what happens when centralization occurs?? Will the best players in this league move to Calgary in hopes of playing for the National Team?? All that will do is give Calgary a stacked team like Montreal has had for the past few years!

Unless HC is ponying up some cash this will not work!! And if West Jet or Air Canada decide to give comp airfare....well, I am glad I am not a shareholder!! The feel good story of the CWHL has passed!! It is time for the "leadership" to get their heads out of their butts and take the necessary steps to make this league legitimate..something they feel that they do not need to do as the "draft" and the throwing around of the word "affiliation" seems to make them think that they are!!

I feel sorry for the players in all this as they just want to play and stay out of the administrative mess that is the CWHL!!!

How can having a team in Calgary with players from all the other teams be good for the CWHL?? The WWHL is no more...is that good for women's hockey?? The CWHL will only care about themselves as long as there is someone pulling the strings who only cares about herself!!

5 4 Fighting
05-24-2011, 08:25 PM
So what happens when centralization occurs?? Will the best players in this league move to Calgary in hopes of playing for the National Team?? All that will do is give Calgary a stacked team like Montreal has had for the past few years!

Unless HC is ponying up some cash this will not work!! And if West Jet or Air Canada decide to give comp airfare....well, I am glad I am not a shareholder!! The feel good story of the CWHL has passed!! It is time for the "leadership" to get their heads out of their butts and take the necessary steps to make this league legitimate..something they feel that they do not need to do as the "draft" and the throwing around of the word "affiliation" seems to make them think that they are!!

I feel sorry for the players in all this as they just want to play and stay out of the administrative mess that is the CWHL!!!

How can having a team in Calgary with players from all the other teams be good for the CWHL?? The WWHL is no more...is that good for women's hockey?? The CWHL will only care about themselves as long as there is someone pulling the strings who only cares about herself!!

Perhaps you can share with us what the necessary steps you think would be required to make this the legitimate league you speak of and what action you would take to ensure that this happens. I for one, would be interested in knowing.

west
05-24-2011, 09:36 PM
So what happens when centralization occurs?? Will the best players in this league move to Calgary in hopes of playing for the National Team?? All that will do is give Calgary a stacked team like Montreal has had for the past few years!

When centralization occurs you'll have the same situation you had in 09-10 in the CWHL and WWHL. Lack of talent because none of the best players are playing in the league, they're playing for the national team. As for them having a stacked team, even the Oval X-Treme had a far better team than the local talent should have warranted because national team players moved here. Going beyond the list of flatlanders who were going to move here anyway (Bechard, Sostorics, Antal, Collins, Wickenheiser), you have Campbell, Goyette, Piper, Kingsbury, Bonhomme, Ferrari and several others with short stints because it's where they were going to end up eventually. With the way Winsport is growing it's operations (The $150M Athletic and Ice Complex) it will probably become even more tempting for any potential Olympian to make the move.


Unless HC is ponying up some cash this will not work!! And if West Jet or Air Canada decide to give comp airfare....well, I am glad I am not a shareholder!! The feel good story of the CWHL has passed!! It is time for the "leadership" to get their heads out of their butts and take the necessary steps to make this league legitimate..something they feel that they do not need to do as the "draft" and the throwing around of the word "affiliation" seems to make them think that they are!!

What are the steps to become legitimate? Or I suppose a better question would be, what is your idea of legitimacy? I think that far more popular women's sports will show that without affiliations with people who have deep pockets and influence (see: men's leagues and teams) you're going to have nothing more than a legimately amateur league, both in the financial and operational sense.


I feel sorry for the players in all this as they just want to play and stay out of the administrative mess that is the CWHL!!!

Who's going to change the administrative mess if the players stay out of it? It's their league, they should be taking up a more active role if they want things to change.


How can having a team in Calgary with players from all the other teams be good for the CWHL?? The WWHL is no more...is that good for women's hockey?? The CWHL will only care about themselves as long as there is someone pulling the strings who only cares about herself!!

I'm not sure who this puppet master is but I'm sure they're just raking in the cash and prestige of operating the CWHL in the manner they are.

brokentwigg
05-25-2011, 03:28 PM
When centralization occurs you'll have the same situation you had in 09-10 in the CWHL and WWHL. Lack of talent because none of the best players are playing in the league, they're playing for the national team. As for them having a stacked team, even the Oval X-Treme had a far better team than the local talent should have warranted because national team players moved here. Going beyond the list of flatlanders who were going to move here anyway (Bechard, Sostorics, Antal, Collins, Wickenheiser), you have Campbell, Goyette, Piper, Kingsbury, Bonhomme, Ferrari and several others with short stints because it's where they were going to end up eventually. With the way Winsport is growing it's operations (The $150M Athletic and Ice Complex) it will probably become even more tempting for any potential Olympian to make the move.



What are the steps to become legitimate? Or I suppose a better question would be, what is your idea of legitimacy? I think that far more popular women's sports will show that without affiliations with people who have deep pockets and influence (see: men's leagues and teams) you're going to have nothing more than a legimately amateur league, both in the financial and operational sense.



Who's going to change the administrative mess if the players stay out of it? It's their league, they should be taking up a more active role if they want things to change.



I'm not sure who this puppet master is but I'm sure they're just raking in the cash and prestige of operating the CWHL in the manner they are.

As you are in the "west" you probably have not been around long enough to understand the issues surrounding this league and if you don't know who the "puppet master" is, well, then you are even more out of the loop than first imagined.

Okay, I will answer some of your questions pertaining to what I think.

Let's tackle the legitimacy question first...

1.) If you are going to have a draft, have a proper draft!! Don't have one for what the league envisions as "historic". There was nothing historic about this draft and it was totally publicity geared. It was a submitted list of players...no recruiting was done by the league whatsoever. Yes, they have a "Director of Scouting" now who hasn't been to a college game in 3+ years!! You want to talk legitimacy??

2.) Don't confirm something to the players that has not been confirmed! Players were told that there would be salaries and even that GM's and Coaches were told that they were going to get paid. They were told that the "money is coming" and yes, that is a direct quote! Guess what, nothing came and as I told one Coach, I hope he got it in writing!

The problem with the CWHL was that a few players took a position of control and undermined the process of "legitimacy"!! There were meetings whereby the financial status of the league was explained and it was dire, and someone player, no names mentioned, decides to ask for 15k for a dressing room. The problem back then was that some egos were hurt because they were told what should be done, and they did not like it!!

And you are right, without the deep pockets that is what you will have. The problem with that is you have SJS and BA chiming out about the "professional" league that the CWHL is..and sadly, it is not!! Being the "puppet master" has nothing to do with monetary gain but rather control!

The time that they could have capitalized on the 2010 Olympics is long gone!! They also were misguided in the fact that they figured 15,000 fans at the Olympics would transcend into record crowds at their games. We get more people watching my kids HL games!! What they should do...and this is an easy business decision..is stop wasting money on those beautiful season's passes...and allow everyone in for free!!!! Sponsors do not care about the 20 people in the stands who paid $5!! They care about how many people are there PERIOD. And if that means having free admission to get people in, then that is what you should do.

No matter what the CWHL leadership says...NO, I repeat NO NHL affiliation is on the way! There are NHL teams in trouble financially and there are no fewer than 4 teams with "For Sale" signs on them. They have their own financial issues to deal with nevermind throw a $1 million at the CWHL. As Brian Burke stated, they would rather throw money at 1000 female players at the amateur level than to financially support one hundred women with a paycheck!!! So, we will continue to hear the CWHL preach about "dialogue" with the NHL...and it is just that..nothing more!

Unfortunately, this league is light years behind where they should be. This is because you have people making the decisions who have no idea on what it takes to run a successful operation. Medals do not equate to good business savvy...and that has become VERY apparent!

One last thing...why do we even have "centralization"?? The National Women's team is the only HC entity that does this. It cannot be because the Women's side is overly competitive because it is not. It's the same thing over and over..Canada vs. US. Take the money that would be saved from axing centralization and put it back into the women's game at the grassroots level.

Just my 2 cents..X a 1000..LOL

west
05-29-2011, 11:41 PM
As you are in the "west" you probably have not been around long enough to understand the issues surrounding this league and if you don't know who the "puppet master" is, well, then you are even more out of the loop than first imagined.

I guess I am. I've known all the kinds of narcissism that come from people wanting control but I never got the impression that was the case here. I always figured the league's shortcomings stemmed from the powers that be just wanting to please too many people and being in over their head as a result. I've worked with both kinds but admittedly I only have my perception from way out here so I could be way off; the league just seems to hapless and disorganized to have a control-hungry directorate.


1.) If you are going to have a draft, have a proper draft!! Don't have one for what the league envisions as "historic". There was nothing historic about this draft and it was totally publicity geared. It was a submitted list of players...no recruiting was done by the league whatsoever. Yes, they have a "Director of Scouting" now who hasn't been to a college game in 3+ years!! You want to talk legitimacy??

Agreed, it was basically a lame publicity stunt to bring one particular player to the spotlight but it at least got talk I suppose. Could have been worse, they could have had a televised "war room" and shots of all the players waiting to be picked.


2.) Don't confirm something to the players that has not been confirmed! Players were told that there would be salaries and even that GM's and Coaches were told that they were going to get paid. They were told that the "money is coming" and yes, that is a direct quote! Guess what, nothing came and as I told one Coach, I hope he got it in writing!

That is indeed amateur in more ways than one but I guess I've become used to this kind of bs with the various organizations I've been involved with. It's a sad commentary on the state of 'amateur' sport when I've become such a cynic that my first reaction isn't "that sucks" but is instead "you should have known better."


The problem with the CWHL was that a few players took a position of control and undermined the process of "legitimacy"!! There were meetings whereby the financial status of the league was explained and it was dire, and someone player, no names mentioned, decides to ask for 15k for a dressing room. The problem back then was that some egos were hurt because they were told what should be done, and they did not like it!!

I think what happens here is the same thing that happens everywhere, especially with egos. You'll have the ones who tell it like it is and the way it should be, and the ones who tell it the way they wish it would be. I'd have a tough time believing that certain players ignored all the advice they were getting, I imagine they simply weren't smart with who they chose to listen to.


The time that they could have capitalized on the 2010 Olympics is long gone!! They also were misguided in the fact that they figured 15,000 fans at the Olympics would transcend into record crowds at their games. We get more people watching my kids HL games!! What they should do...and this is an easy business decision..is stop wasting money on those beautiful season's passes...and allow everyone in for free!!!! Sponsors do not care about the 20 people in the stands who paid $5!! They care about how many people are there PERIOD. And if that means having free admission to get people in, then that is what you should do.

I think its the third time that they've mis-managed the post-Olympic boom but some teams (the ones with the Olympians) have at least been able to salvage something every now and then. I think we have the same mindset, just go about explaining it in different ways I suppose (then again I'm far away from the problems and frustrations). There's no reason that every one of these games shouldn't be packed with young hockey players but they're obviously falling into the same problem that every women's league falls into (that it's an alternative to the big boys) and forgetting who their target is. It's as if they think they have the young girls as 'in the seat' when it's definitely not the case. They've got it to a point, but nowhere near good enough.


No matter what the CWHL leadership says...NO, I repeat NO NHL affiliation is on the way! There are NHL teams in trouble financially and there are no fewer than 4 teams with "For Sale" signs on them. They have their own financial issues to deal with nevermind throw a $1 million at the CWHL. As Brian Burke stated, they would rather throw money at 1000 female players at the amateur level than to financially support one hundred women with a paycheck!!! So, we will continue to hear the CWHL preach about "dialogue" with the NHL...and it is just that..nothing more!
It was always a pipe dream to try and team up with the NHL, trying to affiliate with an individual NHL team could work in a certain capacity but I doubt the CWHL would be overly pleased with what that is. Helping out 1000 girls is definitely better, but if a team thought that helping the league operate (not in paying players, but at least operating with a professional mentality) could provide a good PR boost as well they'd do it. But that would require butts in the seats.




One last thing...why do we even have "centralization"?? The National Women's team is the only HC entity that does this. It cannot be because the Women's side is overly competitive because it is not. It's the same thing over and over..Canada vs. US. Take the money that would be saved from axing centralization and put it back into the women's game at the grassroots level.


Since the Olympics let the pros in the need for a 'centralized' men's national team died away, that's why the women's NT is the only one that still does it. Most of the money used for centralization comes from sponsors who expect the team to win gold and the rest comes through Olympic funding for centralization. Winsport and OTP don't care about the grassroots in an Olympic year, they're paying for results. The U.S. may be the only real competition but so long as all the money being made available is being provided to win that game against them you've got to do what it takes to beat them.

5 4 Fighting
05-31-2011, 01:03 PM
We just loaned the idea to them; the whiteout will return to its rightful owners....The Manitoba Blizzard. :D But I really can't figure out what it all has do do with Spassky or Fischer.:confused:

Let me be the first to congratulate! You really did Save the Jets! Welcome home! :D

zoofer
06-12-2011, 02:04 PM
So as I was watching the TV yesterday, I caught women's softball on ESPN....now I know I saw ASU win the NC last week so why was there more softball on? It seems that the old WPSL is now National Pro Fastpitch, or something to that effect...a league with 4 teams that pay women to play softball....of course they DO have support from MLB as does the WNBA as we have discussed on this thread before.... my question is so why can't the NHL get with the program? I have to believe that Jan Stephenson had the answer....for those of us old enough, she once did a photo shoot and was lambasted for allowing her sexuality to compromise her athleticism....however it seems now that when women compete, especially on TV they have to be in leotards or taught uni's rather then wearing protective gear to protect themselves from their sport....hell, even women's lacross has their participants exposed more then is smart, (yes I know you never see it on TV)...while I will be the first to appreciate our women's attractiveness , as they will of the men's teams, it really sticks in my craw that no one is willing to give our women hockey players a future.....and no I have no daughter or family in sports......it just bugs me!

brokentwigg
06-13-2011, 08:06 AM
So as I was watching the TV yesterday, I caught women's softball on ESPN....now I know I saw ASU win the NC last week so why was there more softball on? It seems that the old WPSL is now National Pro Fastpitch, or something to that effect...a league with 4 teams that pay women to play softball....of course they DO have support from MLB as does the WNBA as we have discussed on this thread before.... my question is so why can't the NHL get with the program? I have to believe that Jan Stephenson had the answer....for those of us old enough, she once did a photo shoot and was lambasted for allowing her sexuality to compromise her athleticism....however it seems now that when women compete, especially on TV they have to be in leotards or taught uni's rather then wearing protective gear to protect themselves from their sport....hell, even women's lacross has their participants exposed more then is smart, (yes I know you never see it on TV)...while I will be the first to appreciate our women's attractiveness , as they will of the men's teams, it really sticks in my craw that no one is willing to give our women hockey players a future.....and no I have no daughter or family in sports......it just bugs me!

Apparently, and long over due, the sh*t is about to hit the fan!!

The players are upset with a few decisions that have been made over the course of the last month as well as the sweetheart deal SJS negotiated for herself with a Canadian Corporation rather than have league involvement!! Can you say "Conflict of Interest".

As well, the right honorable BA has appointed herself the title of "Commissioner"!!! Do not be surprised if monster changes are made at the top and some "old" faces are brought back to get this league on track!!!

Stay tuned as it should be interesting!!

zoofer
06-13-2011, 12:00 PM
Assuming your info ois accurate Brokentwigg, I'm glad to hear it.....whomever the powers that be are, they have to press the NHL to pony up and act like the rest of their peirs, as Big Brothers , to help get the women's leagues off the ground......maybe a few women CEO's can step forward and help their Sisterhood as well.....

osualum86
06-13-2011, 12:52 PM
Apparently, and long over due, the sh*t is about to hit the fan!!

The players are upset with a few decisions that have been made over the course of the last month as well as the sweetheart deal SJS negotiated for herself with a Canadian Corporation rather than have league involvement!! Can you say "Conflict of Interest".

As well, the right honorable BA has appointed herself the title of "Commissioner"!!! Do not be surprised if monster changes are made at the top and some "old" faces are brought back to get this league on track!!!

Stay tuned as it should be interesting!!

Brokentwigg, keep us posted on this! Mrs 86 and I are hoping to make some more road trips to TO this coming season for some CWHL games.

unofan
06-13-2011, 02:44 PM
So as I was watching the TV yesterday, I caught women's softball on ESPN....now I know I saw ASU win the NC last week so why was there more softball on? It seems that the old WPSL is now National Pro Fastpitch, or something to that effect...a league with 4 teams that pay women to play softball....of course they DO have support from MLB as does the WNBA as we have discussed on this thread before.... my question is so why can't the NHL get with the program? I have to believe that Jan Stephenson had the answer....for those of us old enough, she once did a photo shoot and was lambasted for allowing her sexuality to compromise her athleticism....however it seems now that when women compete, especially on TV they have to be in leotards or taught uni's rather then wearing protective gear to protect themselves from their sport....hell, even women's lacross has their participants exposed more then is smart, (yes I know you never see it on TV)...while I will be the first to appreciate our women's attractiveness , as they will of the men's teams, it really sticks in my craw that no one is willing to give our women hockey players a future.....and no I have no daughter or family in sports......it just bugs me!

Women's lacrosse chooses not to wear helmets, because they don't want to encourage the more reckless play that would occur. It's really much like the oft-debated face shield mandate in hockey, only they've chosen to go the other direction. Now frankly, I think women's lacrosse is a crappy sport anyway, but that's because it's essentially freeze tag with sticks.

As for the rest, frankly I don't think the NBA should be subsidizing the WNBA anymore - it's time to let it sink or swim on its own. And MLB is likely only subsidizing softball in order to try to get back into the Olympics. I doubt the NHL has the money to burn that the NBA does, nor does it need to prop up its olympic support, being the only real team sport in the Winter Games.

brokentwigg
06-14-2011, 05:03 PM
Despite what Barb Andress and Sami Jo Small say...the NHL will not pony up the dough for the CWHL! The point was made two years ago that they had "no" business plan!!

The WNBA deal has been a colossal failure for the NBA and Brian Burke himself stated that they would not support a women's pro league in a financial way. What they would do is support 1000 girls at the grassroots level rather than 100 "pro" women. That is from Burke himself and even though I really do not care for the guy, he carries some weight within the NHL!!

Players...do not believe what they are saying about getting paid to play. It ain't happening and probably never will!! C'mon, they are asking you to pay $50 bucks to try out and get on a draft list..LOL..that is so bush!!!

OSU...there will always be a place for these players to play...I can assure you that!! The changes need to be made at the top in order for this league to FINALLY move forward and out of the stagnant position they have been in for 2+ years!!

Bringing Calgary into the fold?? No idea where the money is coming from but by the midway point of the season last year, it was difficult for teams to get to Boston...nevermind Calgary!!!!

But I guess the one saving grace is that this is just another decision to speed up the process of getting these two out!!!!

SJS has always been in this for herself...that was evident the first year!! Now this Canadian Tire deal that she brokered for herself just solidifies my judgement on her and what I had been saying all along!!!! Wonder if the peeps will listen now??;)

SeymoreHockey
06-15-2011, 09:54 AM
My D is playing Senior A this season because the CW is such a farce. Another friend of ours who was a coach last year, quit because of broken promises, conflicts, etc. This league is in big time trouble...AGAIN!! So sad.

brokentwigg
06-15-2011, 02:36 PM
My D is playing Senior A this season because the CW is such a farce. Another friend of ours who was a coach last year, quit because of broken promises, conflicts, etc. This league is in big time trouble...AGAIN!! So sad.

Seymore...this league has never been out of trouble...they have always been in it!

Overheard at a meeting in February with some of the braintrust of the CWHL...when asked about sponsorship..the answer given was..."we are good for this year". Nevermind looking toward next year..DUH!!!

I have said this and will say it again to ALL players...

The CWHL needs you more than you need it!! $50 to be put on a draft list is a debacle!! Save your money!!! There were players who played last year who were not on the draft list!!