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  • #76
    Re: NCAA Change the Tourney

    As a Miami fan (and student) it did stink not being able to make the 16 hour drive to Manchester. I don't think the "home ice" for UNH had that great of an effect on the players; UNH just executed better and took the RedHawks out of their game.

    IMO however, the NCAA should use the same 4 sites as regional locations every year. Some may argue that it would get boring to go to the same place every year, but I think that consistency is a good way to promote college hockey. Let's say one of the regionals was in Chicago: It's a destination that schools like Notre Dame, Western Michigan, Miami, and many others, would strive for every year. The more that fans are familiarized with the location, the more likely they are to travel. I think this would inevitably boost attendance and overall recognition of the sport. Of course, the locations are up for debate, as the NCAA would want to make the regions in close proximity to as many schools as possible.

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    • #77
      Re: NCAA Change the Tourney

      Two proposals:
      1) Establish "permanent" regionals in neutral cities within driving distance of all the teams in each region (except the Alaskas). This would allow the NCAA to build a relationship with the host communities and enable the majority of fans to get to the games. I would propose Worcester, Syracuse, Indianapolis and Kansas City for starters. If the anticipated fan support doesn't develop after a few years, you could always adjust the hosts.
      2) Waive the intra-conference matchup requirement (which only gets postponed to the Regional final anyway under the current format) and place teams by band in the closest regional.

      This year's tournament would have had:
      Northeast: BC, Merrimack, Notre Dame, UNH
      East: Yale, Union, UMD, RPI
      Midwest: Miami, Michigan, WM, CC
      West: UND, DU, UNO, Air Force

      The only place this gets messy is in the three-band, where there are two schools each from the Midwest and West. As with this year's committee, there is the opportunity to be creative in resolving the conflict. (I "rewarded" UMD for finishing 9th by sending them to a weaker regional, and sent Notre Dame east to create the possibility of a compelling BC-ND Regional Final. I also swapped CC and Air Force because this is my bracket and, like the NCAA, I can do whatever I want. Feel free to apply your own criteria)

      My two cents.
      Last edited by AFHockeyFan; 03-27-2011, 07:19 AM.
      2010-2011 Atlantic Hockey Pick 'Em Champion!
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      • #78
        Re: NCAA Change the Tourney

        Originally posted by AFHockeyFan View Post
        Two proposals:
        1) Establish "permanent" regionals in neutral cities within driving distance of all the teams in each region (except the Alaskas). This would allow the NCAA to build a relationship with the host communities and enable the majority of fans to get to the games. I would propose Worcester, Syracuse, Chicago-area and Kansas City for starters.
        2) Waive the intra-conference matchup requirement (which only gets postponed to the Regional final anyway under the current format) and place teams by band in the closest regional.

        This year's tournament would have had:
        Northeast: BC, Merrimack, Notre Dame, UNH
        East: Yale, Union, UMD, RPI
        Midwest: Miami, Michigan, WM, Air Force
        West: UND, DU, UNO, CC

        The only place this gets messy is in the three-band, where there are two schools each from the Midwest and West. As with this year's committee, there is the opportunity to be creative in resolving the conflict. (I "rewarded" UMD for finishing 9th by sending them to a weaker regional, and sent Notre Dame east to create the possibility of a compelling BC-ND Regional Final. Feel free to apply your own criteria)

        My two cents.
        To me the problem is that you're essentially recreating the ECAC, Hockey East, CCHA, and WCHA tournament, with a "guest" in three of the regions. I don't see the point in that. These teams play each other several times a year, and have played each other the week before in the conference tournament. The conference tournaments are traditional and teams and fans take them seriously and, importantly for the sake of this discussion, attend them well, or at least better than the regionals

        One of the things I like about the current setup is that I get to see teams that I don't see all the time. Also, from your previous comment, I'd think one thing you'd want to provide is certainty where you're going. So if you're and AFA fan, you might plan on a trip to Kansas City but get shipped to Chicago.

        I'd almost say if you're going to do that, why not just do away with the regionals and have the a playoff with the conference champions, solving the "regionals problem" by doing away with them. That would raise the stakes of the Conference Tourneys which could be a good thing (not that teams do, but you'd never have a team even being suspected of coasting through a conference tournament if they're in the national tournament already). Find a home for UAH, and have FF (you could keep the acronym, but “F” would be “Five”) like the WCHA used to. When there are six conferences, have some six team format (You could still keep the acronym, like the WCHA did this year).

        I could buy the concept of permanent sites for regionals. Worcester works OK, but I'm not sure how well Syracuse, Chicago, and Kansas City would work out, since as far as I know, they've never been tried. But the change I'd make is that only the top seed gets to stay there. Send the others where their seeding places them, and do away with the rule against intraconference matchups in the first round.

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        • #79
          Re: NCAA Change the Tourney

          Originally posted by amherstblackbear View Post
          You know what the real problem is?

          16 teams is too many.
          more than one out of four Division I teams makes the tournament, right?
          "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

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          • #80
            Re: NCAA Change the Tourney

            16 out of 58 (28%)

            What screwy system is hoops using these days - 68 teams? If we apply that percentage to hockey, you get 11-odd teams. Round up generously to . . . . . 12 teams.

            Sure, it necessitates byes. But those are awarded on merit. Much like proposals to award regionals to the campus sites at the top 4 seeds. And history tells us that you can operate a 6 team regional a lot more successfully than a 4 team one. And you don't have to sacrifice that NCAA tournament feel to achieve excitement and ticket sales.
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            • #81
              Originally posted by CLS View Post
              To me the problem is that you're essentially recreating the ECAC, Hockey East, CCHA, and WCHA tournament, with a "guest" in three of the regions. I don't see the point in that. These teams play each other several times a year, and have played each other the week before in the conference tournament. The conference tournaments are traditional and teams and fans take them seriously and, importantly for the sake of this discussion, attend them well, or at least better than the regionals

              One of the things I like about the current setup is that I get to see teams that I don't see all the time. Also, from your previous comment, I'd think one thing you'd want to provide is certainty where you're going. So if you're and AFA fan, you might plan on a trip to Kansas City but get shipped to Chicago.

              I'd almost say if you're going to do that, why not just do away with the regionals and have the a playoff with the conference champions, solving the "regionals problem" by doing away with them. That would raise the stakes of the Conference Tourneys which could be a good thing (not that teams do, but you'd never have a team even being suspected of coasting through a conference tournament if they're in the national tournament already). Find a home for UAH, and have FF (you could keep the acronym, but “F” would be “Five”) like the WCHA used to. When there are six conferences, have some six team format (You could still keep the acronym, like the WCHA did this year).

              I could buy the concept of permanent sites for regionals. Worcester works OK, but I'm not sure how well Syracuse, Chicago, and Kansas City would work out, since as far as I know, they've never been tried. But the change I'd make is that only the top seed gets to stay there. Send the others where their seeding places them, and do away with the rule against intraconference matchups in the first round.
              I agree this duplicates the existing conference tournaments to some degree, but those are about to change anyway. Michigan could play Minnesota for the BTHC championship one weekend, but they'd be in different regionals the next. And shouldn't the NCAAs be more important than a conference tournament? Plus, I'd rather have a few rivals facing off than teams that don't really care about each other. The rivals would sell more tickets.

              Omaha didn't have much history with college baseball, but now that city and the College World Series are synonymous.
              Last edited by AFHockeyFan; 03-27-2011, 08:44 AM.
              2010-2011 Atlantic Hockey Pick 'Em Champion!
              2013 Atlantic Hockey Postseason Pick 'Em Champion!
              Air Force Falcons
              2007 Atlantic Hockey Champions, NCAA West Regional
              2008 Atlantic Hockey Champions, NCAA Northeast Regional
              2009 Atlantic Hockey Champions, NCAA East Regional Final
              2011 Atlantic Hockey Champions, NCAA East Regional
              2012 Atlantic Hockey Champions, NCAA Northeast Regional

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              • #82
                Re: NCAA Change the Tourney

                At the D2 Women's Basketball Elite 8, each team was given a middle school class. The teams talked to the kids during the week, and then at the games the kids acted as a cheering section for "their" team. This might be an idea to play with for these neutral sites. Middle schoolers can't drive, so their parents end up coming along as well. It'll get people who otherwise wouldn't see the games through the doors and in the seats.
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                • #83
                  Re: NCAA Change the Tourney

                  Two sites that should be considered.

                  BU's Agganis Arena. While not the biggest it is a state of the art arena that is capable of putting together top notch events. It is in a very accessible location by train or car.

                  Dunkin Center in Providence. Seriously this one should be a no brainer. This is an even easier site to get to for fans in Boston than Worcester.

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                  • #84
                    Re: NCAA Change the Tourney

                    Originally posted by AFHockeyFan View Post

                    Omaha didn't have much history with college baseball, but now that city and the College World Series are synonymous.
                    It isn't like this happened in one or two years. Rosenblatt Stadium hosted the thing for 60 years I believe, and even though last year was the last time, it's still going to be in Omaha. No matter what we do in college hockey, we'll never build that kind of a relationship because no one has the patience anymore to let it grow.

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                    • #85
                      Re: NCAA Change the Tourney

                      I think you'll do a better job building local support by holding an event at a specific location (especially when it makes geographical sense) rather than bouncing it all over the country. The WCHA's Final Five in St. Paul is very well attended (although that league may consider moving their tournament once realignment is completed) and the AHA is building the same relationship (somewhat less successfully) in Rochester. The Big-12 Bouncyball Tournament in Kansas City has huge local support. If you dangled the prospect of an NHL franchise (even if the two are totally unrelated) in front of civic leaders, you would probably get some strong community support and local sponsorship. If you can get local community buy-in, you can do much better in the long run than you can by dropping in as a novelty once every five-ten years. And, if it's accessbile to fans of the teams participating, (and they know pretty far in advance that their team will be there) then local attendance becomes less important.

                      Let's face it, most fans aren't going to regionals to experience "something new;" they're there to watch a game or two. Knowing where they're going in advance, and finding a few local eateries/attractions they don't mind visiting once a year is better than trekking all over the country trying to keep up with their team. (Sometimes people want something familiar. McDonald's has made a few trillion on that concept.) Besides, you're still getting the "variety" by moving the Frozen Four around every year, but that event already has its own very loyal following and isn't suffering any attendance issues, and the moves affect a smaller segment of the hockey community. (those same few teams that make the Frozen Four every year) A Regional is a different animal, because it doesn't have the notoriety of a championship and because you're dealing with a few teams who probably aren't regular participants.

                      As one poster already mentioned, there are no Regional sites announced beyond 2012, and two of those are repeats from 2011. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the NCAA is headed in this direction.
                      Last edited by AFHockeyFan; 03-27-2011, 10:08 AM.
                      2010-2011 Atlantic Hockey Pick 'Em Champion!
                      2013 Atlantic Hockey Postseason Pick 'Em Champion!
                      Air Force Falcons
                      2007 Atlantic Hockey Champions, NCAA West Regional
                      2008 Atlantic Hockey Champions, NCAA Northeast Regional
                      2009 Atlantic Hockey Champions, NCAA East Regional Final
                      2011 Atlantic Hockey Champions, NCAA East Regional
                      2012 Atlantic Hockey Champions, NCAA Northeast Regional

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                      • #86
                        Re: NCAA Change the Tourney

                        The other thing that makes planning easier is to have 2x6 regionals. With the pairwise expertise these days, there will be absolutely no doubt where most teams are going.

                        I know, I know. The back-to-12 argument is getting no traction. I can see that, so I'll drop it. I'm just practicing being a grumpy old man.
                        1987 1988 1989 1990 1991 1992 1993 1995 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2012(!)

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                        • #87
                          Re: NCAA Change the Tourney

                          As to the argument of building familiarity by returning to the same location, I am so familiar with that dump in Worcester that I hope to never visit it again before it is imploded.

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                          • #88
                            Re: NCAA Change the Tourney

                            Originally posted by AFHockeyFan View Post
                            I agree this duplicates the existing conference tournaments to some degree, but those are about to change anyway. Michigan could play Minnesota for the BTHC championship one weekend, but they'd be in different regionals the next. And shouldn't the NCAAs be more important than a conference tournament? Plus, I'd rather have a few rivals facing off than teams that don't really care about each other. The rivals would sell more tickets.

                            Omaha didn't have much history with college baseball, but now that city and the College World Series are synonymous.
                            Very unlikely that Hockey East or ECAC will change significantly (though ECAC has its problems with location).

                            The regionals should be more important, but one of the reasons that this string exists at all is that they aren't. I guarantee you that the crowd watching the DU-North Dakota game today will be smaller than the crowd that watched them last week. Of course part of that could be remedied by your suggestion that the regional be held in permanent location, but almost by definition, that location will be less convenient to fans than the location of the conference finals.

                            I don't think Omaha is a good example, because the nature of the tournament is different (it's not single game elimination and takes place over a longer period of time). It's also the finals. The regionals and super-regionals are, as far as I know, held at predetermined on-campus locations.

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                            • #89
                              Re: NCAA Change the Tourney

                              The B1G will fix all problems with college hockey. Just wait and see.
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                              • #90
                                Re: NCAA Change the Tourney

                                4 Regions
                                4 Top Seeds host the Regional Tournament (instant built in crowds)

                                And as a #1 seed you get a reward, you get to play at home.

                                Instead of being the #4 seed and getting to host a regional.

                                Take a week off after the selection show/conference championship so NCAA can get into the arenas with 10 plus days to prepare whatever they do at the arenas.

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