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  • #76
    Re: Maine Off Season 2011

    Originally posted by AtHomeAtTheAlfond View Post
    I'm not sure that everyone is so much upset about not being the envy of the rest of D-1 hockey as we are about having an abysmal record against BU, BC, UNH the last few years, and going out in the HE quarterfinals.

    Edit- There is a pretty big difference between being the envy of college hockey and consistently blowing 3 goal leads.
    Exactly, there's a WHOLE LOT of middle ground between where our program was in the 90's and where it is now. None of us are naive or unrealistic enough to expect lightning to strike twice in the same spot, but right now we are headed for the bottom of our league and fast, and the direction has to change.

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    • #77
      Re: Maine Off Season 2011

      Originally posted by carltonbarrett View Post
      While I wholeheartedly agree that TIMMAY isn't the right guy for Orono, I think that as much as it hurts, Maine fans have to accept the fact that the program will unlikely ever again reach the heights that it attained under Walsh, who through a perfect storm of circumstances, was able to build the program into the envy of the rest of D-1 hockey. Times have changed a lot since the glory days of the 90's and that is not 100% TIMMAY's fault.
      I agree in part and disagree in part. The landscape has completely changed- as Walsh was building Maine into a national power, he had to catch up to teams like Clarkson and St. Lawrence and LSSU and BU and Northern Michigan. Not major athletic powers who put most of their limited resources into hockey. It was easy for Maine to do the same. Now? BC has ACC money and spends it on hockey. Notre Dame takes the sport seriously. The Big Ten schools are printing money and using it on their hockey programs. Penn State is about to start up and is not going to spare a dime. Maine can't compete financially with those schools. Heck, Maine can't compete financially with the America East rivals it has.

      On the other hand, it is a lot less expensive to MAINTAIN excellence than create or regain it. That's where the failure occurred, in my opinion. If Maine was still going to the tournament every year and was well regarded, it wouldn't need to spend millions to catch up to BC, BU, UNH. It would have been able to slowly make changes (new weight room one year, something else the next) instead of having something rotten from the core.

      So, is it Timmy's fault Maine can't spend to catch up to the national programs right now? No in that it isn't his fault Maine doesn't have the money. But yes, it is his fault that Maine needs to spend that money.

      What we had is gone and gone forever. Harold Alfond isn't walking through that door with a $50 million check for the athletic department.

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      • #78
        Re: Maine Off Season 2011

        As I said before, there's no reason Maine can't be a perennial NCAA tourney team like Umile/UNH.

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        • #79
          Re: Maine Off Season 2011

          Originally posted by Carmine Scarpaglia View Post
          Agreed completely.
          It's been years since anyone disputed that point. It's a non-issue.

          The point is: there's a middle ground between racking up the most frozen four appearances of any D-1 team (along with BC) and falling to complete irrelevance.

          eta: Looks like MEbear got there first. Same argument.
          1987 1988 1989 1990 1991 1992 1993 1995 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2012(!)

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          • #80
            Re: Maine Off Season 2011

            Originally posted by amherstblackbear View Post
            There were Mainers who went elsewhere to play college hockey, even under Walsh. Some of them were pretty good. Let's not get carried away too much by a particular kid's decision.

            That said, I agree completely with your other point. Who on earth would choose to play for Whitehead if he got even a glimmer of interest from York?
            I challenge you to name these "pretty good" Mainers that went on to other D1 schools. Besides Greg Moore, Matt Duffy, and Libby who were "pretty good", there isn't another kid that has come out of this state since Eric Weinrich to be drafted out of high school in the 2nd round and been as highly-touted as Dumoulin. Some above posters referenced to Billet, who as a goalie, is one of very few from Maine to play D1 hockey.
            Last edited by lewylew; 03-13-2011, 12:24 PM.

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            • #81
              Re: Maine Off Season 2011

              Originally posted by lewylew View Post
              I challenge you to name these "pretty good" Mainers that went on to other D1 schools. Besides Greg Moore and Matt Duffy, who were "pretty good", there isn't another kid that has come out of this state since Eric Weinrich to be drafted out of high school in the 2nd round and been as highly-touted as Dumoulin. Some above posters referenced to Billet, who as a goalie, is one of very few from Maine to play D1 hockey.
              I don't feel like arguing with you, so here's a half-hearted effort. Kids are committing younger than ever, and I don't pretend to know everything going on in all of their heads. Recruiting has become a lot more competitive since Walsh's heyday in the late 80s. Between fighting other NCAA programs for recruits and fending off Canadian juniors, nobody gets everyone they want. Witness the Minnesota threads calling for the resignation of the great Don Lucia. Don't tell me Walsh this or Walsh that, or X player absolutely would have worn a Maine jersey. Those trends are larger than Walsh, and to ignore them makes you look like someone stuck in time.

              In other words, don't make it easier for Whitehead's apologists to dismiss criticism. There are perfectly reasonable arguments that can be made. And I agree completely that, in general, Maine would be more successful at recruiting in-state talent if they were more successful.

              $.02
              1987 1988 1989 1990 1991 1992 1993 1995 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2012(!)

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              • #82
                Re: Maine Off Season 2011

                Originally posted by amherstblackbear View Post
                The point is: there's a middle ground between racking up the most frozen four appearances of any D-1 team (along with BC) and falling to complete irrelevance.
                I see what you're saying but... Maine finished 5th in a 10 team league and with their sweep of North Dakota sat on the NCAA bubble through the season into this weekend. That is not acceptable middle ground. You guys want home ice and the NCAAs. I understand that. But is home ice, a semi loss in the Garden and a 1 and done in the NCAAs much better? And if not, then really what's being asked for is HE titles and FFs. No?
                Originally posted by reBlur
                the sober Trivino I know is not a guy who would force his way into a girl's room and attempt to rape her. I can't imagine him ever making anyone even feel uncomfortable when he's sober.There are plenty of players in my time covering the team who have looked at me differently or flirted with me or the like. Trivino has never been one of those players. Even outside of the rink, he'll say hi and is plenty of friendly, but has never been even close to saying or doing anything inappropriate.

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                • #83
                  Re: Maine Off Season 2011

                  Originally posted by Carmine Scarpaglia View Post
                  Another good example... the LSSU logo is an anchor. Well, it doesn't take a genius to figure out you're plunging deep into the abyss like an anchor so you need think about incorporating the anchor into it as well. Maybe have a ship with Whitehead at the wheel and a blackbear hanging onto the anchor down at the bottom of the ocean.
                  I like this!!

                  Take the Maine 'M' logo, tilt it sideways at like 45 degrees, and have a chain hanging off the foot of the 'M' with the LSSU anchor hanging down from it.

                  Something similar to this, but you know, done by a professional.

                  *****http://i234.***********.com/albums/ee159/rufus21_photos/Blank20T-shirtcopy.jpg******

                  Maybe have something like this on the front, and the 'Save Maine hockey-fire Whitehead' writen across the back.
                  Last edited by rufus; 03-13-2011, 12:57 PM.
                  What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

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                  • #84
                    Re: Maine Off Season 2011

                    Originally posted by MEbear View Post
                    Exactly, there's a WHOLE LOT of middle ground between where our program was in the 90's and where it is now. None of us are naive or unrealistic enough to expect lightning to strike twice in the same spot, but right now we are headed for the bottom of our league and fast, and the direction has to change.
                    Right. If Lowell and PC hire the right guys, it's very possible that we could end up being the team with the worst head coach in the league. And now we're talking about being back in the Semler years.
                    What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

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                    • #85
                      Re: Maine Off Season 2011

                      Originally posted by Carmine Scarpaglia View Post
                      I see what you're saying but... Maine finished 5th in a 10 team league and with their sweep of North Dakota sat on the NCAA bubble through the season into this weekend. That is not acceptable middle ground. You guys want home ice and the NCAAs. I understand that. But is home ice, a semi loss in the Garden and a 1 and done in the NCAAs much better? And if not, then really what's being asked for is HE titles and FFs. No?

                      Exactly. Lets face it, after the success you had in the 90's and to some extent the early 2000's, few Maine fans are going to be happy getting to the HE semi's every other year and an occasional one and done in the NCAA's; but it my estimation, that's exactly what you're looking at going forward (at best)...

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                      • #86
                        Re: Maine Off Season 2011

                        Oops!

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                        • #87
                          Re: Maine Off Season 2011

                          Originally posted by Carmine Scarpaglia View Post
                          I see what you're saying but... Maine finished 5th in a 10 team league and with their sweep of North Dakota sat on the NCAA bubble through the season into this weekend. That is not acceptable middle ground. You guys want home ice and the NCAAs. I understand that. But is home ice, a semi loss in the Garden and a 1 and done in the NCAAs much better? And if not, then really what's being asked for is HE titles and FFs. No?
                          If this current Maine squad can sweep North Dakota, beat BC, give BC all they had in the HE title game, then there's no way possible that any NCAA appearance will necessarily be a one and done. If this team can do those things, with the coach they have, imagine what it could do with someone like Dennehy behind the bench? Or Nate Leamon. You just gotta find that up and coming assistant who can put together a program like these guys have, like Shawn Walsh did.

                          You telling me it's easier to recruit talent to Merrimack than it is to Maine? If Maine keeps missing the NCAAs, and Merrimack continues the way they are, it might be, but it shouldn't be right now. But you need to have a coach who can get the most out of that talent.

                          Maybe I'm way off here, but outside of goaltending, anyone here think this years team was any less talented, or much less talented than the 1995 team? Or the 1999 team?
                          What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

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                          • #88
                            Re: Maine Off Season 2011

                            Originally posted by Carmine Scarpaglia View Post
                            I see what you're saying but... Maine finished 5th in a 10 team league and with their sweep of North Dakota sat on the NCAA bubble through the season into this weekend. That is not acceptable middle ground. You guys want home ice and the NCAAs. I understand that. But is home ice, a semi loss in the Garden and a 1 and done in the NCAAs much better? And if not, then really what's being asked for is HE titles and FFs. No?
                            You speak as if home ice, a semi loss in the Garden and a 1 and done in the NCAA's are absolutes. Well, they're not. Given Maine's success in the NCAA's (even under Timmay, granted with Walsh's recruits) there's no reason to believe that FF's shouldnt be expected. Afterall, we're not talking about hiring a Umile here. With Maine's tradition, fans and facilities in place (at least for the time being), there's no reason imo that a dynamic coach (even less so than Walsh) couldnt bring back the brand of hockey we are used to seeing and expecting.
                            Last edited by acs64; 03-13-2011, 01:11 PM.
                            I believe in equality of effort. In life, in hockey in everything.

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                            • #89
                              Re: Maine Off Season 2011

                              Originally posted by rufus View Post
                              If this current Maine squad can sweep North Dakota, beat BC, give BC all they had in the HE title game, then there's no way possible that any NCAA appearance will necessarily be a one and done. If this team can do those things, with the coach they have, imagine what it could do with someone like Dennehy behind the bench? Or Nate Leamon. You just gotta find that up and coming assistant who can put together a program like these guys have, like Shawn Walsh did.

                              You telling me it's easier to recruit talent to Merrimack than it is to Maine? If Maine keeps missing the NCAAs, and Merrimack continues the way they are, it might be, but it shouldn't be right now. But you need to have a coach who can get the most out of that talent.

                              Maybe I'm way off here, but outside of goaltending, anyone here think this years team was any less talented, or much less talented than the 1995 team? Or the 1999 team?
                              You beat BC & UND at home, the Walsh Maine teams could beat anyone anywhere, big difference! As far as recruiting vs MC, a lot of kids just don't want to play that far away from a metropolitan area. Furthermore, I wouldn't say Dennehy has exactly built a dynasty over at MC, more like one good year with lots of upper classmen, with a likely big drop off coming next year - happens quite a bit with the UML's & UVM's of the world.

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                              • #90
                                Re: Maine Off Season 2011

                                It's a solid point because as we've seen with Maine under Whitehead towards the last part of his FF runs, Maine was placed in some of the most absurdly terrible regionals ever created by the NCAA with powerhouses like Harvard, SCSU, Clarskon and UMass in their regionals.

                                But... at the same time, you're making my point about Frozen Fours. I think that "middle ground" is a lot smaller than most people probably think it is in their mind. Additionally, I think there is an overstating of the (dying) tradition, fans, and facilities that Maine has in place. It's not a huge distinguishing point. UNH has a whole state following them as well as UVM. BU and NU have rabid followings on campus as the only show in town for their school. And somehow BC leads the league in attendance playing 3rd fiddle to hoops and fb. Go figure. Facilities... BC and BU are clearly better. As is UNH. Tradition... losing relevance quickly and probably one of the lower priorities on a recruit's list IMO.

                                Just trying to have a reasonable discussion here. Not trying to stir the pot honestly...
                                Originally posted by reBlur
                                the sober Trivino I know is not a guy who would force his way into a girl's room and attempt to rape her. I can't imagine him ever making anyone even feel uncomfortable when he's sober.There are plenty of players in my time covering the team who have looked at me differently or flirted with me or the like. Trivino has never been one of those players. Even outside of the rink, he'll say hi and is plenty of friendly, but has never been even close to saying or doing anything inappropriate.

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