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joeyc3402
03-07-2011, 10:15 PM
but looking for some insight on how things are done in the selection process and what and where things can be found


http://www.d3westhockey.com/CareyBracketology.html

Look also in The Definitive Tournament Speculation Thread.

You've had people explain the process to you in this thread, but all you've done is say that it isn't justified. Well, if you'd read the above link / thread, you'd understand exactly what happened, why it happened, and that it's 100% justified.

iontyre
03-07-2011, 10:26 PM
Well, at least no one is complaining that Oswego got in...:)

Laker Ranger
03-07-2011, 10:47 PM
Well, at least no one is complaining that Oswego got in...:)

Shhh...;)

Think of Oswego as the guy sitting back in a corner booth of the bar. Meanwhile, a scrum keeps building over by the drinks. He's hit a rough patch, and he's got some time to regather himself before standing and jumping into the foray. Until that time though, he's laying low and observing. And no one's jumping on his case because...no one exactly knows 100% what to expect from him yet.

Might seem like an odd anology, but bottom line is that, imho, the Lakers are an afterthought until after this week is over. There's a lot more intrigue elsewhere until then.

hockeyfan77
03-08-2011, 02:38 AM
All I have to say is Karma is a. &&&& CSC. Maybe if one team, just one team didn't mind playing you, you might get a shot. Everybody has the same opinion of CSC and it isnt a good one.

NorthernBlight
03-08-2011, 03:44 AM
All I have to say is Karma is a. &&&& CSC. Maybe if one team, just one team didn't mind playing you, you might get a shot. Everybody has the same opinion of CSC and it isnt a good one.

Sounds like someone needs his diaper changed. Or did you just have one too many drinks tonight? If you work games for Southern Maine maybe should spend less time crying like a soiled newborn and spend more figuring out how to get your own dogpile out of the bottom half the league.

1985
03-08-2011, 07:37 AM
Sounds like someone needs his diaper changed. Or did you just have one too many drinks tonight? If you work games for Southern Maine maybe should spend less time crying like a soiled newborn and spend more figuring out how to get your own dogpile out of the bottom half the league.

This guy has been bashing CSC for 2 years now over what he says was someone throwing ice balls at him, the hockey team had nothing to do with that if it happened and there are plenty of teams that have no problem playing CSC so get over yourself its time to grow up.

1985
03-08-2011, 07:43 AM
http://www.d3westhockey.com/CareyBracketology.html

Look also in The Definitive Tournament Speculation Thread.

You've had people explain the process to you in this thread, but all you've done is say that it isn't justified. Well, if you'd read the above link / thread, you'd understand exactly what happened, why it happened, and that it's 100% justified.

I could care less about your bracketology, still noone can tell who the ranked teams were and when they were ranked in the west by the NCAA, that being said there are 24 teams in the west and 13 of them would never get ranked so that leaves 11 teams to be ranked in 7 spots and then those leagues just play within their league 3 times each team....makes for an easy SOS and games against ranked team so KMA

NorthernLite
03-08-2011, 07:56 AM
........still no one can tell ...........who ..... so KMA

See post #1 point 4) in this thread.
It applies to your issue.

http://board.uscho.com/showthread.php?66537-Proper-Post-Season-Posting-Protocol-redux

joeyc3402
03-08-2011, 08:00 AM
I could care less about your bracketology, still noone can tell who the ranked teams were and when they were ranked in the west by the NCAA, that being said there are 24 teams in the west and 13 of them would never get ranked so that leaves 11 teams to be ranked in 7 spots and then those leagues just play within their league 3 times each team....makes for an easy SOS and games against ranked team so KMA

You asked a question as to how this whole process works - I've provided you with two sources that give you a very clear explanation of how this works. These are pretty time tested, and guys like Carey and XYZ have done an excellent job at predicting the field accurately in years past.

Don't like what you see? Complain to the NCAA and have them change the criteria for every single sport.

joecct
03-08-2011, 08:09 AM
Well, at least no one is complaining that Oswego got in...:)But Oswego has D-I and, wait for it, Salem State transfers!!!

If I was a betting man, I would think that Win% is 25% and SoS is 75% with the rest used as a "primary secondary criteria".

norm1909
03-08-2011, 08:11 AM
But Oswego has D-I and, wait for it, Salem State transfers!!!

But nothing compares to Curry :p

1985
03-08-2011, 08:12 AM
See post #1 point 4) in this thread.
It applies to your issue.

http://board.uscho.com/showthread.php?66537-Proper-Post-Season-Posting-Protocol-redux

Thanks and I knew that, I was just hoping to see these NCAA rankings

bakdraft21
03-08-2011, 08:16 AM
Shhh...;)

Think of Oswego as the guy sitting back in a corner booth of the bar. Meanwhile, a scrum keeps building over by the drinks. He's hit a rough patch, and he's got some time to regather himself before standing and jumping into the foray. Until that time though, he's laying low and observing. And no one's jumping on his case because...no one exactly knows 100% what to expect from him yet.

Might seem like an odd anology, but bottom line is that, imho, the Lakers are an afterthought until after this week is over. There's a lot more intrigue elsewhere until then.

agree no one knows what to expect

1985
03-08-2011, 08:18 AM
You asked a question as to how this whole process works - I've provided you with two sources that give you a very clear explanation of how this works. These are pretty time tested, and guys like Carey and XYZ have done an excellent job at predicting the field accurately in years past.

Don't like what you see? Complain to the NCAA and have them change the criteria for every single sport.
not saying you don't, just wanting to see the all important NCAA rankings showing who and when they were ranked to get to these SOS and games against ranked teams, etc..... it seems that anynone that asks a question on this forum that is new to it is treated like an idiot I keep getting sent to someones Bracketology etc... but noone can produce the NCAA rankings and that is all I was asking about and where I could find them

joeyc3402
03-08-2011, 08:19 AM
Thanks and I knew that, I was just hoping to see these NCAA rankings

http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/icehockey-men/d3/regional_rankings_

PSUChamps2001
03-08-2011, 08:25 AM
I could care less about your bracketology, still noone can tell who the ranked teams were and when they were ranked in the west by the NCAA, that being said there are 24 teams in the west and 13 of them would never get ranked so that leaves 11 teams to be ranked in 7 spots and then those leagues just play within their league 3 times each team....makes for an easy SOS and games against ranked team so KMA

Well here is a start seeing everyone has to do your work for you....

3/6 Secret

3/1
http://board.uscho.com/showthread.php?94898-3-1-Regional-Rankings-are-up...

St.Norbert
Adrian
Hamline
UWS
Stout
MSOE
Gustavus

2/22
St Norbert
Adrian
Hamline
Stout
Superior
St.Thomas
MSOE

2/15
Cant seem to find (or was this the first "secret" ranking)

They can rank who ever they want. Once ranked always ranked. They could rank all the lower teams in the first and last "secret" rankings to help add some wins agaisnt ranked opponents to their top teams. This was something new this year. For years it was always only concidered ranked in that weeks poll. And you last line is exactly what I talk about when the discussion of UTICA and the ECAC West comes up. If they play weak OOC games and boost up their own SOS, when they play each other they seem like they are playing harder teams.

Now moving on, each "region" is ranked (east 1-11, west 1-7) call it fair or not thats what they do. Using the criteria:

Primary Criteria:
Team's winning percentage in region (WIN, win%)
Strength of schedule, weighted combination of OWP and OOP:
Opponent's winning percentage in-region (OWP)
Opponent's opponent's winning percentage in-region (OOP, OOWP)
Record against common opponents of compared teams in-region (COP)
Head-to-head record of compared teams in-region (H2H)
Record against ranked teams in region (RNK, discussed below)

Secondary criteria
Head-to-head record of compared teams out of region
Team's winning percentage in all Division-III games (in and out of region)
Team's winning percentage in all games
Record against common non-Division-III opponents
Record against ranked teams in and out of region
Record against all common opponents (in and out of region)
Overall Division-III strength of schedule (in and out of region)
Winning percentage in the last 25% of the season

Amazingly enough, we also have team comparisons that show us these criteria and how a team would stack up against another found here: http://www.uscho.com/rankings/pwc/d-iii-men/team-by-team/

Once they are all ranked in their region, and all the Pool A and Pool B slots are filled its time for Pool C bids (at large) They take their remaining teams (in order from their region) and go one by one down the order.

So you would have seen first UWS vs Neumann of which Neumann wins that criteria over UWS which puts them in the dance.

Next you would have (and we assume here because the final rankings are secret) UWS vs Castleton
The criteria is tied 1-1 with Castleton taking Win % and UWS taking SOS. Not sure what ranked was and dont think there was any Common Opponents and no H2H. Based on what the Committee has done over the years (see Adrian/St.Johns) they weigh the SOS heavily, Thus giving the bid to UWS.

Had the East ranked Salem ahead of Castleton it would still have been a tie 1-1 (same way) with UWS, but a lot closer in SOS. Again not sure on the others, but it could have been enough to put Salem in over UWS?? Maybe.

Had the East ranked Utica ahead of Castleton, Utica would have won 2-0 over UWS winning both Win % and SOS.

But, this year the committee (at least the East) went by the book when ranking teams that we know of (see the 2 secret rankings we will never know)

PSUChamps2001
03-08-2011, 08:30 AM
not saying you don't, just wanting to see the all important NCAA rankings showing who and when they were ranked to get to these SOS and games against ranked teams, etc..... it seems that anynone that asks a question on this forum that is new to it is treated like an idiot I keep getting sent to someones Bracketology etc... but noone can produce the NCAA rankings and that is all I was asking about and where I could find them

They are and have been for a while on several threads in here...you just have to look. Or maybe try google searching NCAA Mens Ice Hockey Rankings....going to NCAA.com....did you really think people were just pulling numbers out of that thing we are suppose to kiss? Its not about asking a question, its not taking the time to actually read what people are writing and trying to tell you. Your momma may have told you "son there is no such thing as a dumb question", but on here....there sometimes is when its been explained a million times. No hard feelings hopefully this will help you out and understand why Castleton didn't get in.

cetihcra
03-08-2011, 08:38 AM
Well here is a start seeing everyone has to do your work for you....

3/6 Secret

3/1
http://board.uscho.com/showthread.php?94898-3-1-Regional-Rankings-are-up...

St.Norbert
Adrian
Hamline
UWS
Stout
MSOE
Gustavus

2/22
St Norbert
Adrian
Hamline
Stout
Superior
St.Thomas
MSOE

2/15
Cant seem to find (or was this the first "secret" ranking)

They can rank who ever they want. Once ranked always ranked. They could rank all the lower teams in the first and last "secret" rankings to help add some wins agaisnt ranked opponents to their top teams. This was something new this year. For years it was always only concidered ranked in that weeks poll. And you last line is exactly what I talk about when the discussion of UTICA and the ECAC West comes up. If they play weak OOC games and boost up their own SOS, when they play each other they seem like they are playing harder teams.

Now moving on, each "region" is ranked (east 1-11, west 1-7) call it fair or not thats what they do. Using the criteria:

Primary Criteria:
Team's winning percentage in region (WIN, win%)
Strength of schedule, weighted combination of OWP and OOP:
Opponent's winning percentage in-region (OWP)
Opponent's opponent's winning percentage in-region (OOP, OOWP)
Record against common opponents of compared teams in-region (COP)
Head-to-head record of compared teams in-region (H2H)
Record against ranked teams in region (RNK, discussed below)

Secondary criteria
Head-to-head record of compared teams out of region
Team's winning percentage in all Division-III games (in and out of region)
Team's winning percentage in all games
Record against common non-Division-III opponents
Record against ranked teams in and out of region
Record against all common opponents (in and out of region)
Overall Division-III strength of schedule (in and out of region)
Winning percentage in the last 25% of the season

Amazingly enough, we also have team comparisons that show us these criteria and how a team would stack up against another found here: http://www.uscho.com/rankings/pwc/d-iii-men/team-by-team/

Once they are all ranked in their region, and all the Pool A and Pool B slots are filled its time for Pool C bids (at large) They take their remaining teams (in order from their region) and go one by one down the order.

So you would have seen first UWS vs Neumann of which Neumann wins that criteria over UWS which puts them in the dance.

Next you would have (and we assume here because the final rankings are secret) UWS vs Castleton
The criteria is tied 1-1 with Castleton taking Win % and UWS taking SOS. Not sure what ranked was and dont think there was any Common Opponents and no H2H. Based on what the Committee has done over the years (see Adrian/St.Johns) they weigh the SOS heavily, Thus giving the bid to UWS.

Had the East ranked Salem ahead of Castleton it would still have been a tie 1-1 (same way) with UWS, but a lot closer in SOS. Again not sure on the others, but it could have been enough to put Salem in over UWS?? Maybe.

Had the East ranked Utica ahead of Castleton, Utica would have won 2-0 over UWS winning both Win % and SOS.

But, this year the committee (at least the East) went by the book when ranking teams that we know of (see the 2 secret rankings we will never know)

Spot on, although to be completely thorough, first we had Oswego vs Superior in the Pool C comparisons.

r

PSUChamps2001
03-08-2011, 08:41 AM
Spot on, although to be completely thorough, first we had Oswego vs Superior in the Pool C comparisons.

r

My bad, forgot about that one lol

1985
03-08-2011, 08:52 AM
They are and have been for a while on several threads in here...you just have to look. Or maybe try google searching NCAA Mens Ice Hockey Rankings....going to NCAA.com....did you really think people were just pulling numbers out of that thing we are suppose to kiss? Its not about asking a question, its not taking the time to actually read what people are writing and trying to tell you. Your momma may have told you "son there is no such thing as a dumb question", but on here....there sometimes is when its been explained a million times. No hard feelings hopefully this will help you out and understand why Castleton didn't get in.

I have done just that and according to NCAA by laws first reg ranking (publicized) was to be Feb 8 and each Tuesday thereafter and I did not see those and it does appear they ranked 4 out of the 6 teams in the NCHA which sure helps the SOS when you play each other 3 times a year