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NUProf
03-07-2011, 08:35 PM
Approximately 1/3 of the teams in each region, in each DIII sport are ranked.

altazo
03-07-2011, 08:35 PM
I have no problems with the brackets. What Superior's inclusion means to me is that the committee felt it was more appropriate to leave Castleton out rather than grant Hamline a bye to the quarters .

I actually thought Utica had a better profile than Castleton. But yeah, you simply can't go 0-4 against Neumann...

one_to7
03-07-2011, 08:41 PM
Look while I feel for Castleton they had a chance to take care of things and didn't do that, still with 4 losses and a 5-2 record against "ranked teams" think they deserved a shot, I know I know...SOS...unfortunately with the interlock they had to play ECAC and Nescac and don't have the schedule of playing 6 teams 18 times and if the happened to get ranked 1 time then wow does that help against ranked teams or what?
Castleton did control their out of conference games against the likes of Becker, Morrisville, Brockport, and Johnson & Wales though. Play some tougher teams and not only does that change your record against ranked teams, it also raises your strength of schedule. But you risk lowering your win %. The NCAA has consistently shown they like putting in teams that can do well against NCAA-caliber teams, not those that just beat up on lower level teams.

UCBadger
03-07-2011, 08:50 PM
Since someone else brought it up......is the problem Neumann or 0-4 against anybody? Where is the "if you are swept in a 3 or 4 game series you are disqualified" rule? I am not saying (or whining) that that team should be in the tournament, but the "0-4 so you are done" statement keeps coming up. Is the fact that one team is winless against another really considered in the selection process? The team in question lost to just 3 teams this year (yes, for a total of 8 losses), all three are tournament teams.

altazo
03-07-2011, 08:56 PM
Since someone else brought it up......is the problem Neumann or 0-4 against anybody? Where is the "if you are swept in a 3 or 4 game series you are disqualified" rule? I am not saying (or whining) that that team should be in the tournament, but the "0-4 so you are done" statement keeps coming up. Is the fact that one team is winless against another really considered in the selection process? The team in question lost to just 3 teams this year (yes, for a total of 8 losses), all three are tournament teams.

If you want to be in contention for a national title, you have to be able to take at least one game from good teams when you have four chances at them. If you can't, then it's clear that the other team is better than you. At that point you don't deserve a shot at the title.

Even Superior took one from SNC in four chances...

Russell Jaslow
03-07-2011, 09:05 PM
I have no problems with the brackets. What Superior's inclusion means to me is that the committee felt it was more appropriate to leave Castleton out rather than grant Hamline a bye to the quarters .

Not really. They don't even look at putting together the bracket until after the 11 teams are selected.

Russell Jaslow
03-07-2011, 09:07 PM
Since someone else brought it up......is the problem Neumann or 0-4 against anybody? Where is the "if you are swept in a 3 or 4 game series you are disqualified" rule? I am not saying (or whining) that that team should be in the tournament, but the "0-4 so you are done" statement keeps coming up. Is the fact that one team is winless against another really considered in the selection process? The team in question lost to just 3 teams this year (yes, for a total of 8 losses), all three are tournament teams.

I don't think anybody is implying it's a hard fast rule. It's just that when the committee looks at the numbers and does the head-to-head comparison, and sees 0-4, well, that is going to carry a lot of weight, positive or negative, depending on which team they are considering.

Remember the days of the criteria where each win head-to-head meant one point? With that criteria, Utica definitely would have never stood a chance.

puckrfactor
03-07-2011, 09:15 PM
This thread should have been named "PMS Monday"! Lmao

1985
03-07-2011, 09:16 PM
[QUOTE=one_to7;5069016]Castleton did control their out of conference games against the likes of Becker, Morrisville, Brockport, and Johnson & Wales though. Play some tougher teams and not only does that change your record against ranked teams, it also raises your strength of schedule. But you risk lowering your win %. The NCAA has consistently shown they like putting in teams that can do well against NCAA-caliber teams, not those that just beat up on lower level teams.[/QUOTE


I don't believe Castleton chose their out of conf foes to bolster their win pct and as for the rest of the schedule it is the same as Norwich....but from what you are saying then even thou you do beat the teams you should beat you are better off losing 8 games to ranked teams showing you can't beat them and that carries more weight...Castleton was still 5-2 against ranked teams...hopefully Todd will make the adjustment for next year as I do believe Castleton will be very competitive again losing only 2 seniors

UCBadger
03-07-2011, 09:17 PM
Even Superior took one from SNC in four chances...And lost to 9! different (I think) teams. Again, I am trying to make this the thing I learn about today..........If one team lost to, say SNC, 4 times and won all their other games, would they still have the fork stuck in them? (That's what it seems you said.) Or what if the team in question had split with Oswego and Elmira, but still lost 4 to Neumann, you would predict that they not be a considered team? And....is this based on rules, based on your experience with the selection process, or your opinion? Can Mr. Jaslow help out here? :confused:

Edit: Thanks, Russell...your post while I was (slowly) writing this really helped.

1985
03-07-2011, 09:20 PM
Superior did lose to SNC 3 times as well

The Real Georgia Peach
03-07-2011, 09:21 PM
So much whinning,....I've now added Utica and Casleton to my list of teams that I don't care if they never win another game.

altazo
03-07-2011, 09:22 PM
And lost to 9! different (I think) teams. Again, I am trying to make this the thing I learn about today..........If one team lost to, say SNC, 4 times and won all their other games, would they still have the fork stuck in them? (That's what it seems you said.) Or what if the team in question had split with Oswego and Elmira, but still lost 4 to Neumann, you would predict that they not be a considered team? And....is this based on rules, based on your experience with the selection process, or your opinion? Can Mr. Jaslow help out here? :confused:



Edit: Thanks, Russell...your post while I was (slowly) writing this really helped.

Yes, I think if Superior had not taken that one game from SNC they would have been left out too.

UCBadger
03-07-2011, 09:23 PM
So much whinning,....I've now added Utica and Casleton to my list of teams that I don't care if they never win another game.Please....I was not whinning. I was trying to understand statements made by others in this board.

altazo
03-07-2011, 09:24 PM
Not really. They don't even look at putting together the bracket until after the 11 teams are selected.

I hear ya. I'm sure that's the letter of the law, but...

Stormy8174
03-07-2011, 09:26 PM
Not really. They don't even look at putting together the bracket until after the 11 teams are selected.

I would think they have it in their mind at least...they must be thinking of their precious travel restrictions as they determine the remaining bids.

1985
03-07-2011, 09:41 PM
So much whinning,....I've now added Utica and Casleton to my list of teams that I don't care if they never win another game.

This coming from the person whining about having to pay 6 bucks to watch a game on the internet,,,,,,,,I was not whining about Castleton not making it but looking for some insight on how things are done in the selection process and what and where things can be found

UCBadger
03-07-2011, 09:46 PM
This coming from the person whining about having to pay 6 bucks to watch a game on the internet,,Gee, I would whine about that too (and have when wanting to get some info on a UW game)................:p

one_to7
03-07-2011, 09:56 PM
I don't believe Castleton chose their out of conf foes to bolster their win pct and as for the rest of the schedule it is the same as Norwich....but from what you are saying then even thou you do beat the teams you should beat you are better off losing 8 games to ranked teams showing you can't beat them and that carries more weight...Castleton was still 5-2 against ranked teams...hopefully Todd will make the adjustment for next year as I do believe Castleton will be very competitive again losing only 2 seniors
http://collegehockeystats.net/0809/schedules/adrm

23-0-0 in region in a conference with no at large bid. No at large bid. They did beat the eventual national champions though, by a 10-1 score.

Similarly, St. John's went 20-3-0 in region. http://collegehockeystats.net/0304/schedules/stjm

Lost in overtime in the MIAC championship game: no at large bid.

It's how the NCAA does things Play a tough schedule and do decently against ranked teams and you will have a good shot for an at large bid. Have a high win %, play only a few ranked teams, and a low SOS and historically the NCAA has *not* looked favorably on you.


It's the risk teams take when they don't win their autobid. Better luck next year.

one_to7
03-07-2011, 09:58 PM
So much whinning,....I've now added Utica and Casleton to my list of teams that I don't care if they never win another game.
Yeesh, don't let a really small handful of fans change your image of an entire fanbase, coaching staff, and college program. If you do, stay away from professional sports or you'll hate everyone. :p